RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (Full Version)

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TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/18/2013 12:02:57 AM)

It's not. I looked over the turn 6 results last night (what a blood bath) but haven't started planning yet.

I had to go up to my mothers house and fix her air conditioner. It is 105 degrees fahrenheit here (that's about 41C) and she can't live without it. Literally.

I just got home and still have things to do before I can play so if it gets done tonight it will be very late. Most likely, not until tomorrow




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/18/2013 1:27:13 AM)

Ok, thanks for the update.




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/18/2013 3:57:57 AM)

I just want to know how you got your in with the weather gods. I mean, if I have to go sacrifice a virgin, I'm screwed. I live in the US. I would have to go pick on a 12-year-old.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/18/2013 6:55:12 AM)

Well heck I don't know, but I live in Europe and know that the weather here is screwing with us on a daily basis.

And... your turn again.

On a sidenote: [:-]

[image]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/Langnasen/Bf109assemblyline1.jpg[/image]




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/19/2013 5:08:18 AM)

Back to you again. Every day is a new adventure. [:)]




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/20/2013 1:29:54 PM)

So is the next day that busy? [:)]




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/21/2013 2:55:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

So is the next day that busy? [:)]

No, I got sidetracked yesterday by a question in my after action report thread. So I had to dig out my camera to take some pictures and post a lot of stuff in the war room. I also had to go fix a buddy's computer which took a couple three hours.

It is however, Friday night. Barring emergencies, I don't have any obligations till Tuesday. I'm going to make a couple of quick picture posts in the war room and then I will start working on the turn. With a little luck, I should have it done tonight.




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/21/2013 8:33:23 PM)

Here's a first. I am camped out in the mail box.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/22/2013 12:08:37 AM)

I have no new turn from you?

Check your mail, your turn #10 should be in the mail since 12 hrs back.

My 2 yo refused to sleep so I'm delayed by 4 hrs or so but I have no gamefile inboxed from you so I sent you the completed #9 turn again. I'll wait for 30 mins or so for a reply from you before going to bed. It's 0117 hrs here.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/22/2013 1:41:29 PM)

Back to camping the mailbox, had a lot of other things to deal with yesterday hence the delayed response on your 'bad weather' turn. Else that one would have been a very quick return obviously.




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/22/2013 9:18:52 PM)

I have not received the results of the bad weather turn. I sent you some emails about it and setting up a system so you always know when I get the turn.

I got your PM.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/22/2013 9:20:05 PM)

Ok let's see if this works...

...looks like no more hiccups then. [:)]




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/24/2013 3:37:28 AM)

Where to start:

Last night I wrote a long email to Nick explaining why I was going to withdraw from our game. Then I didn't send it. Truth be told, I have spent 50 or 60 happy hours plotting the destruction of the Reich.

The problem is, the Emperor has no clothes. On turn nine my raid to Bremen got hosed because half of the escorts didn't fly due to weather. That in itself was not a problem. It was my error.

The problem arose when I started a test game to learn how not to have this happen again. During that game I rolled over a fuel storage facility in Homburg. It had over 100,000 fuel. Problem is, it was 90% damaged. This was, obviously, a what the **** moment. My weather testing went right out the window. I was now testing fuel storage facilities.

I set up a hotseat game, so I was playing both sides, and proceeded to bomb all of the fuel storage facilities. The results of that test were that any damage to fuel storage facilities less than the critical level has no effect whatsoever. It does not prevent fuel flow. It does not damage fuel. With everything but Ploistie destroyed. I was able to fly the entire German Air Force on two missions a day endlessly. Ergo, attacking fuel storage is meaningless.

So I tested rubber. My surmise, and from posts on these forums I presume the surmise around here was that destroying rubber production would have an effect on the armaments industry and thus reduce aircraft manufacturing and repair. Unfortunately, the only effect attacking rubber has occurs when it's critical level is reached. No damage less than the critical level does anything. At the critical level, armaments is reduced by the current production level, divided into the critical level percent of armaments production greater than the critical level. I wrote it and it still doesn't make sence. Let's try that as pseudocode.

Effective Arm prod = ( Rub Prod / Rub crit level ) * (Arm prod - Arm crit level) + Arm crit level

If you insert zero for rubber production, You will note that you get armaments production equal to the armaments critical level.

This means that you cannot drive armaments production below the critical level by reducing rubber production. Even if you reduce it to zero. Armaments production in any amount above critical level means no effect on aircraft production or ground defense production.

Net result, bombing rubber can in no way affect the German Air Force or the number of sorties they can fly. It does reduce the amount of AA guns, tanks, and artillery that are produced, but there is no way to know how large the pools of those are so there's no way to know if you're actually accomplishing anything.

Interesting item. If something is below the critical level, it's production is reported to the allies as zero. However, if you look at the above equation, if you are just barely below the critical level, there is no effect whatsoever.

I also tested transportation attacks as those have always been effective. At least I thought they were effective. First I tested ports. Bombing ports also has no effect if you do not reach the critical level. You're not going to reach the critical level, so bombing ports is useless. So I tested railroads. Railroad attacks do have an effect. They reduce the effectiveness of all installations in the immediate area of the damaged railroad. They seem to do so regardless of other transportation assets in the area. The effect is much greater for a destroyed railyard than it is for a 50% damaged railyard.

Damage to railyards less than the critical level has no apparent effect outside of the immediate area of the individual damaged railyard. Thus my strategy of destroying all railyards that I could reach is ineffective. It will only be effective to damage specific railyards that are near something that you want to limit the production of. As it only seems to be useful to limit the production of things that actually appear on the German production list your selection of targets is extremely limited.

This basically has left me with the conclusion that the only valid targets in the game are aircraft factories engine factories, component factories, armaments factories and the railyards adjacent to same.

More extensive testing may show a way to get an effect from a fuel strategy, and I did not test power, but I don't hold out a lot of hope.

So I'm bummed. Like I said, yesterday I was ready to just quit. Today, well, I guess I'll do some more testing and see if I can come up with a valid strategy within the constraints that I now see in the game.







npsergio -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/24/2013 10:24:24 AM)

Hi,
I'm playing the Luftwaffe in a 44 Campaign.
I'm not looking in detail the production, but after 4 months I have suffered a critical damage to th e ball bearings production, with consecuences to armaments production.
Also i have suffered some serious damage to ports, transport, alluminium, power...
Last days I have changed some production, and I have seen that I have consumed most of my stocks. So, i don't know if it's because of my incompetence managing production, or if it's due to cumulative damage to my bombed economy...
Just my experience... I hope that it helps you.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/24/2013 12:53:59 PM)

It's sad to see these broken features are working against historical gameplay. I'm sure a valid strategy can be found, but it would not be a historically accurate one. It seems Matrix didn't bother to fix the majority of the bugs in their release. I would hope Matrix is willing to aid a community effort in improving the game, or else there really is no hope this title will ever be fixed to reach it's full potential.

Just what I can see from my limited perspective. I never played the Talonsoft version so have nothing to compare with. I think however that Matrix would be wise in tapping into the resourcefulness of the community in making their release better. From their perspective (since they've got their head stuck in the marketing aspect) it could trigger a new sales boom if all the bugs were worked out. If they have no interest in improving the title, they have a obligation to the community to sell the rights to people who want to, and intend to, improve the game. To just sit on the rights to a game with broken core features & no intention of doing anything to improve it is outright destructive and morally criminal. It does not reflect well on Matrix Games.

A friend of mine with 13 years on Wall St. ending there as most senior executive in one of the largest global investment firms and a wizard when it comes to macro-economic analysis have concluded that this global currency system is doomed. It will not live beyond 2015. What we are seeing now is a pretext to the demise of the petrodollar system, and it will not be pretty.

Profit centered thinking means not just the end of great games such as this title, but is poised to spell the end of mankind, or at least civilization as we know it.

"When you see it... you'll sh!t bricks." [;)]




madflava13 -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/24/2013 4:42:29 PM)

Are these bugs, or features working as designed (perhaps poorly designed)? It doesn't change the end result, obviously, but I'd be interested if it reflects broken code or a mistaken philosophy when creating the engine...




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/24/2013 5:28:43 PM)

TaggedYa would know he knows the ins and outs of the Talonsoft version and has done some extensive testing on the Matrix release too.




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/25/2013 12:27:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Are these bugs, or features working as designed (perhaps poorly designed)? It doesn't change the end result, obviously, but I'd be interested if it reflects broken code or a mistaken philosophy when creating the engine...


I actually do not know the answer to this question. I can and probably will find the answer but I just discovered this a couple of days ago. The thing that started me off was destroyed fuel storage not behaving as if they were damaged. That smells like a bug not a feature. I can't see anyone feeling that a tank farm that was bombed to total destruction would still have all its fuel in a usable state. Especialy in a game that models fire. The bomb damage having no effect till critical level smells like an expedience. A feature that was disabled because it was not finished or was to buggy to fix in the available time. That smells like someone in a suit.

Problem is that is all conjecture. I don't know yet. And I will probably never know the WHY. Unless of course someone who does know tells us.

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, has anyone heard from Hard Sarge lately.




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/25/2013 12:33:30 AM)

As to the campaign: I am continuing. I will of course be changing strategy to reflect my new understanding of reality. There will not be any surprises in my new strategy (well maybe one small one) but it is still fun to me to plot raids and figure tactics.




warshipbuilder -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/25/2013 1:17:22 AM)

Geez talk about disheartening. I feel like I did the first time a girl kicked me to the curb. On a positive note, it looks like there is at least one way to win. I was looking forward to trying KayBay's different ways of "choking a dog", but from what you are saying I guess those options are off the table. Man am I pissed. C'mon Matrix put the game in our hands!

On another positive, I am glad you are going to continue your campaign and I look forward to further reports from both sides.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/27/2013 1:31:19 PM)

Given the limitations found in the game caused by non-working features, I think it is fairly safe to say that from here on we will see a sharp departure from anything resembling historical operations.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/28/2013 8:47:37 PM)

Nasty nasty stuff, I do believe you got what you wanted at least on one front. Italy is a pushover but it's still rough country ahead. Looking forward to the battles ahead.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (9/29/2013 10:45:00 PM)

#15 was a very well planned action, nicely done! However I can not help but notice you seem frustrated, and it doesn't seem to be just the weather.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (10/2/2013 10:15:59 AM)

2 days ago had a hardware failure, my Asus GTX670 gave up. It took me a day and a half to pin point the problem after numerous reinstalls driver tests and hardware swaps. Ultimately it came down to swapping the faulty card for one of the SLI configured GTX280s in my older system so back to operational status now.




Creeper -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (10/2/2013 11:13:57 PM)

Good to see that you're back...[:)]
I'm hoping that the PBEM against TaggedYa will continue.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (10/2/2013 11:45:09 PM)

Yes it does albeit slowly. He sure takes the planning very seriously, and he's very good at it.




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (10/3/2013 12:13:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Turner

#15 was a very well planned action, nicely done! However I can not help but notice you seem frustrated, and it doesn't seem to be just the weather.


I am indeed frustrated but I am not sure how you noticed it.

Something has definitely been bugging me (all puns intended). My raids are consistently bombing and strafing the wrong things. The raid list has the right targets but the bombs land on the wrong targets. On turn 13 I sent a raid to the airfields south of Bremen. They had 4 targets. They all bombed one field and that through clouds that weren't there. Then the turn 15 decoy raid to the aircraft plants around Bordeaux also had weather problems with 2 strikes bombing (but the same target) and neither the target they were looking for. Strangely, the targets they should have bombed had BDA recon. The target they actually bombed had none. Curiouser and Curiouser.

As the movie crashes most of the time I have to figure what happened from the messages. The messages show attacks on wrong targets but always someone's target.

This turn, #16, the movie worked and I found the problem. Someone in my game got a copy of Portal. Have a look at this.

[image]local://upfiles/18368/DE45D0A55BD34C0B9EB31B505FA5D3FE.jpg[/image]




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (10/3/2013 12:29:31 PM)

Knowing what to look for I found that nearly everything that was dropped on 26th PZ landed on 29th PZG. And as a further FU the guns on the fighters are not firing in ground attacks. Inf thus has little to fear from fighter attacks and any attack with a unit that doesn't have bombs equipped is a sick joke.

So far I can't create it at will but it is happening a lot. I believe it to be a bug in the follow command which I use extensively to set up timed raids. I am presuming a work around will be just to not use the follow command but that is going to make turn planning even slower. It takes hours to set up night intruder missions as it is. Now it seems I will have to plot every point for every plane. Oh my aching head.




Turner -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (10/3/2013 3:04:21 PM)

[image]http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/c0fd/t99ns33nfnksm836g.jpg[/image]

Damn... one has to wonder if any play testing was involved before the release of this title, or if they just thought repackaging would do the trick?
I'm saddened by the state of the game, but there is hope... I hope. At least we're here trying to get something done, for what it's worth.

[image]http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/9bca/df6gu91tutswtpm6g.jpg[/image]




TaggedYa -> RE: 43 Grand Campaign AAR - Common (10/3/2013 4:13:33 PM)

Unfortunately I now have little hope. If Matrix will not release the source code, and we would need it all the way back to the TalonSoft game, there is little that can be done. Even with the code it might be quicker and easier to start from scratch. It would probably be more helpful to have access to the research that the aircraft stats are based on.

The sad part of the whole thing is that the talent that was available 5 years ago has all become disillusioned and faded away. Putting together a team to modernize and repair what we have would be very difficult.

As to the play-testing: a lot of people have their names on it. I sure wouldn't want mine on it. Sure as hell no one played even 5 turns of PBEM without finding out the movie crashed the game. Of course they could have a known bug list a mile long and just not told anyone.

Anyway, if someone can actually get in contact with someone from Matrix we need to get them to provide the source or sell the rights (which of course means coming up with the source).





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