RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (Full Version)

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Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:10:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

What exactly is being demonstrated here? You're not trying to win... okay, but you can at least show the game in action. Wacky set-up, air factors ignored, reckless assaults -- why not just play as if you were actually playing? Someone visiting to consider a purchase may be discouraged seeing the Germans flounder badly amid the opening salvo.

To "show the game in action" is being demonstrated. The amount of information Bo is communicating to someone who has never played WIF before is enormous. You've been playing CWIF for years (or so you claimed) so most of this is probably well known to you. Showing an MWIF land attack, ANY MWIF land attack, is very useful to someone who has never seen one before.

---

Positioning all the units expertly and using them with the expertise of an expert is of interest to other experts, but that entire exercise is mostly lost on someone who has never played. It also increases the difficulty of writing the AAR.

Anyway, you would just complain about the poor defense if the attacks went in too well, or the poor attacks if they failed, or the die rolls, or something. When was the last time you told anyone that they had done something good or nice?



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:14:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

What exactly is being demonstrated here? You're not trying to win... okay, but you can at least show the game in action. Wacky set-up, air factors ignored, reckless assaults -- why not just play as if you were actually playing? Someone visiting to consider a purchase may be discouraged seeing the Germans flounder badly amid the opening salvo.


Aw shucks cruss I am just a newbie too like others here, but I am glad you are paying attention that is the most important thing for me. [sm=00000947.gif]

Bo


You're not a newbie, you state earlier that you know a 3:2 attack is poor form, particularly in a Sept. '39 context. Why not demonstrate how you actually play the game? This is a perfect opportunity to show how ground strike differs from adding tac air factors to an attack. Or overrun results when a land unit encounters enemy ships in harbor. I think you declined to move altogether? This makes no sense.


TO say nothing about the US entry chits, or the effects on production, or the different optional rules that he could have used, or the difference between attacking Poland versus France, or why a paradrop and invasion would be different, or how the Japanese attacks on China are different, or, ...

I could add another thousand items that Bo hasn't mentioned yet in his AAR. Why don't you write down a complete list for us? Then I could tell you all the ways you did it wrong.



Klydon -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:20:16 AM)

Nice work on this Bo. Keep it up.



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:27:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Nice work on this Bo. Keep it up.


Thank you Klydon I needed that. I hope Orm is not dissuaded by cruss, because he is way stronger than I am on this subject besides being a good friend of mine. Hmmm never met Orm in person, oh god not another catfish story [:-]

Bo




CrusssDaddy -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:32:44 AM)

This report is akin to, "Hello welcome to our look at this new 2014 model BMW. We're going to begin by driving it into a curb..."

I'll tell you what would be interesting: a peek at something new. Global War, Barbarossa and Guadalcanal can be played on CWiF and Fascist Tide simply replicates the opening of Global War. Been there, done that. How about one of the more interesting scenarios that are exclusive to MWiF? Darkness Before the Dawn and Decline and Fall offer play of a variety that is virtually unseen thus far for WiF on a computer -- I rarely make it that far into a game in solo play. Run D-Day from Decline, or Pearl from Waking Giant even.

"General Goofy Invades Poland" is not a compelling demonstration of the potential enjoyment to be had from this game.



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:32:58 AM)

Now lets back up a few days here and go back to von Bocks headquarters and question him on his decsion to attack that Polish unit with one German corp. He said he had too much Schnapps the night before, so he switched to Budweiser because he could drink them all night [centuur ] and he would be fine in the morning.. Enough levity this is serious business.

von Bock issued new orders, he ordered his 3 corps located west and south west of the Polish calvary unit in the woods to crush this brave but outgunned calvary unit and then he issued orders to the 4 German corps next to the Polish 4-4 corp located in the woods to destroy them with rancor and malice. A new wrinkle has been added to the attack against the Polish 4-4 unit in the woods besides his 3 infantry corps he unleashed the VIII mech unit 7-6 indentified by the oval inside a oblong box with an X thru it. The difference in speed is dramatic the Mech unit can travel appx. 180 km more in one move than the infantry can. [I believe it is 90km a hex]

Now this is blitzkrieg even without the Panzers who are waiting north of Warsaw and near the Vistula river. They wont be waiting long. Also von Bock did not want to take any chances in this initial attack and sent orders to the Luftwaffe to unleash the Stukas north west of his headquarters. The Stuka squardron
the Ju 87B with a air to ground attack of [5] he then orderd the 2 level bomber squadrons the Do 17z and the He III h to join in the attack both with air to ground attack values of 3. The difference in the attack powers IMO is the ability of the Stuka to dive at such a steep angle to the target that it almost cant miss while the medium bombers are dropping their ordanance [bombs] from 10,000 feet and higher.

You will notice the attack arrows pointing at the 2 Polish corps, they are moving but there also being cautious waiting for the arrival of the German air power. They wont have to wait long. Now you might notice that the Polish calvary unit is being attacked by 3 strong German corps but you see 4 units near the Polish calvary unit, why not attack with the 4th unit? The 4th unit is von Bocks headquarters and he does do not want to risk even a slight set back. If von Bocks headquarters gets damaged or it becomes disorganized in the fighting it cannot supply the 7 attacking corps and reorganize these important units.

The Luftwaffe is almost here wont be long now.

Bo










[image]local://upfiles/31758/CA9B1CED7557417196AD220D9F615FA6.jpg[/image]



CrusssDaddy -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:34:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

What exactly is being demonstrated here? You're not trying to win... okay, but you can at least show the game in action. Wacky set-up, air factors ignored, reckless assaults -- why not just play as if you were actually playing? Someone visiting to consider a purchase may be discouraged seeing the Germans flounder badly amid the opening salvo.


Aw shucks cruss I am just a newbie too like others here, but I am glad you are paying attention that is the most important thing for me. [sm=00000947.gif]

Bo


You're not a newbie, you state earlier that you know a 3:2 attack is poor form, particularly in a Sept. '39 context. Why not demonstrate how you actually play the game? This is a perfect opportunity to show how ground strike differs from adding tac air factors to an attack. Or overrun results when a land unit encounters enemy ships in harbor. I think you declined to move altogether? This makes no sense.


TO say nothing about the US entry chits, or the effects on production, or the different optional rules that he could have used, or the difference between attacking Poland versus France, or why a paradrop and invasion would be different, or how the Japanese attacks on China are different, or, ...

I could add another thousand items that Bo hasn't mentioned yet in his AAR. Why don't you write down a complete list for us? Then I could tell you all the ways you did it wrong.


He chose the Fascist Tide scenario. You cannot demonstrate any of the things you just listed with that scenario. Unless you have debug mode, but you already revealed you destroyed that :(



Missouri_Rebel -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:37:49 AM)

Hey bo. I'd like to see a supply path screen. Any chance of showing one of those?



CrusssDaddy -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:40:56 AM)

Bo, when you take the Polish turn have that 5-3 whitey in the south gobble up Vienna or Bratislava. I assume they are undefended.



composer99 -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:43:32 AM)

Keep up the good work, bo.



Extraneous -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 3:45:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This report is akin to, "Hello welcome to our look at this new 2014 model BMW. We're going to begin by driving it into a curb..."

I'll tell you what would be interesting: a peek at something new. Global War, Barbarossa and Guadalcanal can be played on CWiF and Fascist Tide simply replicates the opening of Global War. Been there, done that. How about one of the more interesting scenarios that are exclusive to MWiF? Darkness Before the Dawn and Decline and Fall offer play of a variety that is virtually unseen thus far for WiF on a computer -- I rarely make it that far into a game in solo play. Run D-Day from Decline, or Pearl from Waking Giant even.

"General Goofy Invades Poland" is not a compelling demonstration of the potential enjoyment to be had from this game.


Now, now, Cruss be courteous.

Note I haven't posted any views on beta testers strategy or anything else at this time.

Just think this is the most action we've gotten out of the beta testes besides rants an flames in years.

I'm enjoying the change of pace and we can always critique later.




MPHopcroft1 -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 4:25:13 AM)

In all the Grand Strategic WWII games I've played the attack on Poland has been a tougher not to crack than it looks. Look at the historical campaign and it looks so easy -- but I cold never duplicate the result or even come close. Not knowing off the top of my head how long a turn is in WiF (it's been a long time) I'm wondering if it's especially feasible to expect a one-month campaign against a competent Allied player who sets up the Poles with a coherent plan with which to slow down the onslaught.

Blitzkrieg is a lot harder than it looks.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 4:51:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MPHopcroft

In all the Grand Strategic WWII games I've played the attack on Poland has been a tougher not to crack than it looks. Look at the historical campaign and it looks so easy -- but I cold never duplicate the result or even come close. Not knowing off the top of my head how long a turn is in WiF (it's been a long time) I'm wondering if it's especially feasible to expect a one-month campaign against a competent Allied player who sets up the Poles with a coherent plan with which to slow down the onslaught.

Blitzkrieg is a lot harder than it looks.

The Polish units are always the same, but the German units are drawn randomly - to some extent. Even so, it is almost always possible to capture Warsaw and Lodz by the end of the first turn, which means that Poland is conquered.

What gets tricky is how many units the Germans use to accomplish that task. If everyone, or nearly everyone heads east, then victory is assured. But Germany would also like to take out Denmark in the first turn. And greedy players (like myself) would like to conquer the Netherlands, and possibly even Belgium, in the first turn. But the weather has to stay nice, you can't have too many awful die rolls, and you have to run some risks.

Step right up! Take a chance! Win a prize!



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 5:01:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: MPHopcroft

In all the Grand Strategic WWII games I've played the attack on Poland has been a tougher not to crack than it looks. Look at the historical campaign and it looks so easy -- but I cold never duplicate the result or even come close. Not knowing off the top of my head how long a turn is in WiF (it's been a long time) I'm wondering if it's especially feasible to expect a one-month campaign against a competent Allied player who sets up the Poles with a coherent plan with which to slow down the onslaught.

Blitzkrieg is a lot harder than it looks.

The Polish units are always the same, but the German units are drawn randomly - to some extent. Even so, it is almost always possible to capture Warsaw and Lodz by the end of the first turn, which means that Poland is conquered.

What gets tricky is how many units the Germans use to accomplish that task. If everyone, or nearly everyone heads east, then victory is assured. But Germany would also like to take out Denmark in the first turn. And greedy players (like myself) would like to conquer the Netherlands, and possibly even Belgium, in the first turn. But the weather has to stay nice, you can't have too many awful die rolls, and you have to run some risks.

Step right up! Take a chance! Win a prize!


Steve dont pressure me to take Denmark just yet, I am not good at overuns like you are[:D]

Bo



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 5:03:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This report is akin to, "Hello welcome to our look at this new 2014 model BMW. We're going to begin by driving it into a curb..."

I'll tell you what would be interesting: a peek at something new. Global War, Barbarossa and Guadalcanal can be played on CWiF and Fascist Tide simply replicates the opening of Global War. Been there, done that. How about one of the more interesting scenarios that are exclusive to MWiF? Darkness Before the Dawn and Decline and Fall offer play of a variety that is virtually unseen thus far for WiF on a computer -- I rarely make it that far into a game in solo play. Run D-Day from Decline, or Pearl from Waking Giant even.

"General Goofy Invades Poland" is not a compelling demonstration of the potential enjoyment to be had from this game.


Now, now, Cruss be courteous.

Note I haven't posted any views on beta testers strategy or anything else at this time.

Just think this is the most action we've gotten out of the beta testes besides rants an flames in years.

I'm enjoying the change of pace and we can always critique later.



Thank you Extraneous, [&o] I think .[&:]

Bo



MPHopcroft1 -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 5:20:28 AM)

If the Molotov pact is in play, when does that take effect? Do the Soviets have to fight the Poles in the east of Poland or do they just walk in?



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 5:32:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MPHopcroft

If the Molotov pact is in play, when does that take effect? Do the Soviets have to fight the Poles in the east of Poland or do they just walk in?

They walk in. When is up to the USSR player. The same is true for the Baltic minor countries.

The USSR claims for Bessarabia and the Finnish borderlands are more complicated, with Hungary and Bulgaria able to make claims on Rumania too.



warspite1 -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 5:55:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

This report is akin to, "Hello welcome to our look at this new 2014 model BMW. We're going to begin by driving it into a curb..."

I'll tell you what would be interesting: a peek at something new. Global War, Barbarossa and Guadalcanal can be played on CWiF and Fascist Tide simply replicates the opening of Global War. Been there, done that. How about one of the more interesting scenarios that are exclusive to MWiF? Darkness Before the Dawn and Decline and Fall offer play of a variety that is virtually unseen thus far for WiF on a computer -- I rarely make it that far into a game in solo play. Run D-Day from Decline, or Pearl from Waking Giant even.

"General Goofy Invades Poland" is not a compelling demonstration of the potential enjoyment to be had from this game.
warspite1

You simply can't help yourself can you? You cannot be positive or pleasant about anything. Its just not in your twisted make-up is it?

quote:

I'll tell you what would be interesting: a peek at something new. Global War, Barbarossa and Guadalcanal can be played on CWiF and Fascist Tide simply replicates the opening of Global War. Been there, done that.


It's all about you isn't it? Guess what? There are people out there that haven't played WIF or CWIF and find what bo is doing of interest. Why do you care anyway - the game is not for you, it offers only dated graphics and nothing that CWIF doesn't provide, will be too expensive and you are not going to buy it. So why attack those trying to do something positive? I repeat, apart from trolling, why are you here?

quote:

"General Goofy Invades Poland" is not a compelling demonstration of the potential enjoyment to be had from this game.


Hey what a surprise! A snide, nasty comment from you against a forum poster. Shocker. What a pathetic waste of space you are.




Good work bo - we appreciate your efforts [&o]



CrusssDaddy -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 6:58:16 AM)

Warspit1, if you cannot moderate your tone I will move you to my "Ignore" list and then how will you ever get my attention that you insatiably crave? You are one of those who have never played WiF, do I remember that correctly? I am afraid you will find that in this game your namesake is a rather shabby boat [:(]

Bo continue if you must, I know your heart is in the right place -- I just wish you would play in a fashion that creates a compelling narrative, which is easier than you think.



warspite1 -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 7:10:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

Warspit1, if you cannot moderate your tone I will move you to my "Ignore" list and then how will you ever get my attention that you insatiably crave? You are one of those who have never played WiF, do I remember that correctly? I am afraid you will find that in this game your namesake is a rather shabby boat [:(]

Bo continue if you must, I know your heart is in the right place -- I just wish you would play in a fashion that creates a compelling narrative, which is easier than you think.
warspite1

1. Great play on my name? You are clearly a genius wordsmith [8|]
2. Look at my other posts - you will notice there is nothing wrong with my tone. I simply react to your ignorance, unpleasantness, rudeness and childlike behaviour. If you are civil to others, you will get only civility in return.
3. Never played WIF? Clearly you do not bother to read other peoples posts.... I have played WIF and I told you I have played WIF. As I said to you before, I have not played beyond the 5th Edition.
4. Shabby boat? What was the point of that comment? Personally I think she could do with a bit of an upgrade in her factors, but there is a degree of artistic licence with some of the air, sea and land factors in order to assist game play. Nothing wrong with that to make the game what it is.
5. Re your last sentence to bo - why could you not have said that in the first place and avoided all the unpleasantness?



Neilster -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 7:51:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MPHopcroft

In all the Grand Strategic WWII games I've played the attack on Poland has been a tougher not to crack than it looks. Look at the historical campaign and it looks so easy -- but I cold never duplicate the result or even come close. Not knowing off the top of my head how long a turn is in WiF (it's been a long time) I'm wondering if it's especially feasible to expect a one-month campaign against a competent Allied player who sets up the Poles with a coherent plan with which to slow down the onslaught.

Blitzkrieg is a lot harder than it looks.

The Wehrmacht campaign in Poland is often glossed over as a fairly quick walkover on the way to the Phoney War. The reality was somewhat different. Poland was strategically surrounded, badly outnumbered, possessed obsolescent armed forces and for political reasons its army was deployed too far forward. Even so the invasion took almost as long as the defeat of the much more numerous Western Allies, even with the Red Army moving in to Eastern Poland towards the end. The Wehrmacht lost about 300 tanks and a quarter of the Luftwaffe. Polish resistance was often ferocious.

A MWiF turn is 2 months, although the actual number of impulses that entails depends on the weather. A competent Allied player will set up a Polish defence in depth and as Steve has described, a half-hearted Case White with one eye on the north and west can leave Germany in an awkward position given some nasty weather and unlucky dice.

There's also a very good argument that the invasion of Poland didn't involve Blitzkrieg but rather an extension of traditional concepts of Vernichtungsgedanke but that's another story.

Cheers, Neilster

Polish armour on the move...

[image]local://upfiles/10515/597C04634F3A4EC6A4AA37A4C94C6565.jpg[/image]



Greyshaft -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 8:16:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Nah. I like what you are doing. especially some of the less focused on screens you have included. Not everyone would have the foresight to put up both the Land Combat Selection and Combat Charts.

Keep up the hard work. It takes quite an effort to post an AAR.


+1

If anyone doesn't like what you are doing then they don't need to visit this thread.
Just do it for the remaining 99%



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 5:44:50 PM)

The Polish borders are in flames, as the German armies press their attack and soon, the World Will Be In Flames [Adolph Hitler]

In a military map room in a military base on the outskits of Berlin two German officers of unknown rank are looking at this combat map of Poland, both are very astute officers who believe in the Panzers and Blitzkreig. One officer questions the deployment of the 2 Panzer corps just north of Warsaw. I do not know Field Marshall Rundstedt [commander of group army south in Poland] real well is he tank oriented.

Dont know sir but I agree the deployment of those 2 Panzer groups are wrong, They should have been given to von Bock who has nothing but open country in front of him after the destruction of those 2 Polish corps on the border. Correct, after the Panzers and infantry group he commands destroy the 3-3 Polish corp just north of the Vistula river he must find a bridge to cross the Vistula with his tanks.

Sir I believe he has combat engineers with him and they could build a pontoon bridge across the Vistula if need be, Of course I forgot about that I am sure everything will go well. I notice the attacks are commencing Sir.







[image]local://upfiles/31758/44C2C7574F774B0F84DE53F003D1B43D.jpg[/image]



Centuur -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 6:19:54 PM)

Hmmm. Bo... I don't think Von Bock would drink Budweiser, when the Führer goes to war and has just cancelled the Oktoberfest in Munich...
So I think he is drinking a very good Paulaner instead...

Keep up the good work. I like it a lot...



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 6:23:48 PM)

The German air armada has arrived over their targets.

A- Ju 87B attacking the Polish unit underneath it in the sceeen.

B -2 level bombers are attacking the Polish 4-4 corp in the wooded area north of the Polish city of Katowice.

This will certainly help the ground troops in these 2 attacks.



[image]local://upfiles/31758/4D2712BA557C47C98A44760C2927E75D.jpg[/image]



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 6:32:37 PM)

This screen show you the air assualt by the Stuka bomber [5] has vbeen added to the ground units attack factor. On the right you see the target it is bombing the 3/4 Polish calvary unit.





[image]local://upfiles/31758/77FEF148955F4F3EB8C1D46B2BA4FAB1.jpg[/image]



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 6:38:10 PM)

This screen shows the 2 level bombers attacking the Polish 4-4 infantry unit on the right a [6] has been added to the ground units attack factor.






[image]local://upfiles/31758/0E9054A902324CE3942F8F52970C20D7.jpg[/image]



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 6:43:59 PM)

This the combat resolution chart.

There are 3 lines here designating the 3 land attacks.

1- Poznan, Poland in hex [50, 44] this is a city hex that is why a name is there. Odds on the right.

2- Poland in hex [52, 44]

3- Poland in hex [49, 45]

You may at your discretion click any one in any order, when you click one the program goes into all it's calulations such as where the battle is fought, open area hex , city hex, swamp hex, mountain hex etc.
The weather, clear, rain or snow, storm or blizzard and a few other calculations that anyone here can enumerate for the posters which is fine by me.

The odds favor the German forces by a large margin, if every player could get these odds every time they would be unbeatable, but that is unrealistic, but a happy thought.

Bo



[image]local://upfiles/31758/C4E1CA0638624D64B35D2A1EFD8B5D71.jpg[/image]



MPHopcroft1 -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 6:50:58 PM)

I keep wanting to click on those screenshots....



bo -> RE: Poland Sept 1st 1939-Blitzkrieg (9/18/2013 7:01:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MPHopcroft

I keep wanting to click on those screenshots....


Me to MPHopcroft it would save me a ton of work, not complaining [:@]

Bo



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