Good times and sides for PBEM (Full Version)

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Atila_Boss -> Good times and sides for PBEM (2/28/2001 5:35:00 PM)

I want to share experiences with PBEM players, which time periods and sides are good for PBEM playing. Problem with PBEM is that in W@W some sides are more powerfull than others in some historical periods. Which is of course historically accurate and perfect for campaigns, but for PBEM is better to have equal sides. I've found that good battles with nearly equal power on both sides are for example German vs. British (or Russian) after March 1942 (Pz IVF2s arrived) and before Tigers or German vs. American 1944+. Serious problems are with British or even Russians when played against Germans before March 1942, because killing Matildas or KV-I with Pz-III is really bad job and using 88 AT can be difficult againts human opponent. On the other side, when German player has Tigers, then for British war ended. :-) It is really difficult to kill these monsters with 6 pounder or 76mm gun from Volverine. Player can use an infantry ambush, air support etc, but German has a lot of advantages in these battles. What do you think about it ? Some ideas about another time periods and sides to play with no advantages for one side ? ------------------ ----------------------- Dusan Bolek



Pack Rat -> (3/1/2001 1:09:00 AM)

I think your observations are good ones. I also think that human vs human play is where SPWAW shines its brightest. To play an equal battle on purpose is almost an accident. So many different things involved. The human element I think is the biggest. Some players are very good with their artillery, some with armor, and others with infantry. You also have all the combinations and the tactics involved. This in itself creates an unequal playing field no matter what the units are. But this is to your advantage as well. It's fun. Desperation has probably been my best teacher, [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] and I get desperate alot. When all the main guns on my Tigers have failed and all I have left is infantry to stop an armored push, I learn. I've been thinking lately that I don't play with the same intensity through out the game. What I'm capable of doing in the end game I should be able to do in the beginning. Many players I've fought are damn blood thirsty from the get go. There are a number of players I'm very happy to get a draw against and wish it would happen more often. The more I play them the more chinks I think I see and try to use against them. Perhaps finding players that will agree to use units more in a historical setup is what you might try. In other words limit the Tigers for example and use the Stugs and PZIV's. It's fun. Waltzing with the Matildas. Don't know what to say here because I still haven't figured this one out. Against the AI it was pretty easy, not so with human generals. I do know how the Allied players feel against the Tigers, because of my Matilda fears. But what works on Tigers should work on them. That I'm going to piss off some players because I'll use a ton of artillery will be a given. But that is what works against Tigers. Again I think this is the beauty of the game, I'm the boss, not Adolf (he's dead). I can go as far away from historical as I want. People will piss and moan, but I invite them to do it as well, it's fun, it's disasterous, it has it's moments of glory, and it's fun. Botttom line, equal would be boring if it existed. You could both pick the exact same units, call it the German revolution if you like, and it won't be equal. But I'll bet it would be fun. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ PR http://electricwar.tripod.com/



Wild Bill -> (3/1/2001 3:02:00 AM)

I just ssw this post after I posted my thoughts on Gaming-Some Choices. Good points here, guys...WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



skukko -> (3/1/2001 3:41:00 AM)

Hi guys [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Interesting views. But one thing I'll have to ask: Why should pbems be balanced? Now its axis turn to rule, next time its allied. I've been involved in 43east, 44west, and am playing 43Italy league. To find out how you can beat 'historical' appearance where (I buy that same Tiger Coy everytime against everybody and support it with 3infantry coys and two 81mm-mortar,) and other guy buys two combatgroups (changes shermanV:s to Fireflys) and adds two to three Btn:s artillery, 30bazookas and 10 rocketlaunching plane, to find out how I could beat that one is fun, learning and wargaming. Most of my pbem-friends are also willing to play off the league games. I play 41 and 45 russian front and I play 44 and 46 west front. And I play scenarios pbem. In these games goal is to win despite of historical balance and force structures. Only way I can add my flavour to game is to play with so called historical core structure, only way I've found is capable in good battle to win. Otherwise its draw, with only few hundred points separating gamers. And I think it is good result also. Loosing is good if you can learn from it, so I can't say that I hate loosing, but it ain't funny way to learn. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] spwaw99.999 is coming and I would be in the row of old grognards to beg a copy of it, just as it presents highclass wargaming in these days. mosh



Gallo Rojo -> (3/1/2001 5:46:00 AM)

I don’t have to much PBM experience (I played around 5 and I’m currently playing 4 more). Mostly of them on Eastern front between 1941 to 1943. For war theaters and years where both sides are equalized in terms of equipment these are my votes: Nor Africa 1942-1943. I never play there, but this is probably a theater where both sides have equal forces. I think that Crusader is similar to PzIII (I can be wrong, I never test it) Western Europe on 1944 (Germans has better armor but is more expensive, and British Firefly and USAF can give Germans a bitter day) Eastern Front on 1944. Soviet T-34/85 is a little less than a equal for Panther. But is cheaper. In this case a good idea could be switch the preferences to give same battle points to both sides in a meeting engagement (if you don’t do so, soviets will receive more points than Germans). I’m not completely agree with you when you said that when Tiger appears the game is over for British or Russians on 1943. I respect Tigers but I don’t fear them. First they are very expensive. Second I think that I can be defected by using massive attacks of T-34 model ‘43 (not by model ’41, that has a really poor fire control). Even against a human opponent. ------------------ No Pasarán!!



AmmoSgt -> (3/1/2001 1:09:00 PM)

I have no trouble killing Tigers and Panthers against human or AI in 43 Brits and laters or even June 44 when all the US had was 76mm and the Targets are King Tigers ..i mean i don't get them all with 76mm, bazookas some, arty some, close, assult some ,engineers some, even aircraft some, ... what am i missing here ?



skukko -> (3/1/2001 2:19:00 PM)

ammosgt: you are missing pathetic joke. mosh



James P -> (3/2/2001 5:32:00 AM)

On the PBEM subject, is it just me, or is the Matrix link to the Opponents section broken? I get sent to http://204.85.35.112/ only to get a HPPT 403 forbidden error. I'm looking for new PBEM opponents? Anyone know where to go? ------------------ Cheers, JP



Pack Rat -> (3/2/2001 6:26:00 AM)

http://208.185.88.171/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Combat+Command+and+Combat+Net++-+MGN&number=17&DaysPrune=20&LastLogin= This is a good place to start. ------------------ PR http://electricwar.tripod.com/



Alby -> (3/2/2001 8:38:00 AM)

My two cents worth...heheh Every Tends to forget...this is NOT a "tank" game. It is a "combined arms" game. Tigers are too tuff, matildas are too strong...ect ect....Find other weapons or tactics, instead of going head to head against superior machinery!! It can be done, history itself proves this fact! Alby



James P -> (3/3/2001 2:36:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Pack Rat: This is a good place to start. [/B]
Pack Rat, Thanks again - I must have missed this somehow -just joined two leagues. Looking forward to battling you all [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ Cheers, JP



Pack Rat -> (3/3/2001 2:11:00 PM)

I posted a question on why the oppenents link on the top of this page didn't work and could it link over to the pbem/on-line forum. I got a very quick response from David H. and this is it. "We are very busy back here getting a lot of new features in place here. One is a very nice Opponents Registry system. I will be making some changes in the very near future." I'm guessing this will be independent from the leagues which is a very good idea because as it stands now in order to see the list of people for pbem/on-line you have to join a league. It doesn't hurt to do so, because you don't have to report games or even stick with the leagues, it's just that most in there do. ------------------ PR http://electricwar.tripod.com/



Atila_Boss -> (3/6/2001 9:34:00 PM)

I've read a some good points here. I think that using same sides for PBEM is boring, because it is funny try to find some tactics how to deal with a different opponent. A word about Tigers. I think that Tiger is maybe a best tank in a game, but Tiger is definitely not a wonder unbeatable weapon. Sometimes it is really easy to kill him. For example in a forrest against US Rangers is Tiger like a sleeping cattle. The worst nightmare is Tiger in desert. That's a bad message for British forces in Africa. In daytime missions is really hard to get close to him and make kill. Desert is the best terrain for this tank. We can say the same about Matildas II. Dealing with Tigers in Europe is easier, because usually there are some trees bushes etc. And as AmmoSgt already told, with American 76s everything is possible.



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