Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (Full Version)

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bsq -> Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/8/2013 9:28:51 PM)

I am increasingly noticing that missiles are being reported as a miss with miss distance of single digit metres. Except in the case of 'hittle's' such a small miss distance is actually a 'hit' as the prox fuze and B/F warhead does its 'thing'.

I guess I will be asked for a save file of this, but I am sure anyone could model this and show it to be true.

I noticed in mainly with AGM-88's doing some profile modelling against an SA-20 and saw reported misses of 4 metres, 6 metres etc. AGM-88 has a fragmentation warhead that would not work as advertised if the missile bullseyed the target, it needs to pass close to activate the fuze and then 'spread the love' of all those tungsten fragments.



MaB1708 -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/8/2013 9:37:36 PM)

quote:

but I am sure anyone could model this and show it to be true.


such is the case, indeed.



ExMachina -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/8/2013 9:51:28 PM)

Does CMANO maybe factor proximity fusing into it's hit/miss probabilities?



Der Zeitgeist -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/8/2013 9:53:27 PM)

The status message you get from these "misses" seems misleading, as in most of these cases, a lot of damage is done to the target, which can be checked with god's eye view in the editor. It seems to be mostly an issue with data presentation to the player.



ExMachina -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/8/2013 10:04:55 PM)

quote:

The status message you get from these "misses" seems misleading, as in most of these cases, a lot of damage is done to the target, which can be checked with god's eye view in the editor. It seems to be mostly an issue with data presentation to the player


Interesting and good to know. Since air burst (and air burst distance from target) are reported for surface shell fire, then the player would expect to be informed of all air bursts.



Dimitris -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/8/2013 10:07:03 PM)

I was writing here a diatribe on that but the @#%$@#%$@# ASP.NET session expired and the message was lost.

Long story short: With explosive & frag warheads this already happens in the game. Frags in particular are deadly against personnel & soft vehicles at up to a few tens of meters (depending on warhead).

Try a HARM attack in ScenEdit and once the impacts occur switch to the other side and observe the message log & damage stats for each target. More often than not, you'll see results.



MaB1708 -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/8/2013 10:11:31 PM)

So, Zeitgeist, what you are saying is that "misses the target by 10 m" does not mean that no damage is done. Target is penetrated to some extend (based amongst other on impact distance) and the message in the log just alludes to the fact that weapon is not fully on target. Message does not mean that target got away with no damage.



Der Zeitgeist -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/9/2013 6:27:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MartinB

So, Zeitgeist, what you are saying is that "misses the target by 10 m" does not mean that no damage is done. Target is penetrated to some extend (based amongst other on impact distance) and the message in the log just alludes to the fact that weapon is not fully on target. Message does not mean that target got away with no damage.



Exactly.



opfor06 -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/10/2013 12:03:53 AM)

I have been playing a China vs India scenario and I had several instances of YJ-83 or YJ-62 missing by 10m or less and cause no damage to the ship it was targeted on. (It was my ship and I checked the damage to be sure) I am not sure if this is because it is a missile hitting open water or it means it overflew to high or what. I am far from an expert on what would happen to a modern naval vessel that had a 600Kg warhead impact 9m away but I would think it would cause at least some damage. I know that 500lber near misses in WW2 often caused damage to ships so I would image a larger modern warhead would do the same.

Land targets seem to be effected by near misses, light damage and fires often occur.



bsq -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/10/2013 5:29:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Boochar

I have been playing a China vs India scenario and I had several instances of YJ-83 or YJ-62 missing by 10m or less and cause no damage to the ship it was targeted on. (It was my ship and I checked the damage to be sure) I am not sure if this is because it is a missile hitting open water or it means it overflew to high or what. I am far from an expert on what would happen to a modern naval vessel that had a 600Kg warhead impact 9m away but I would think it would cause at least some damage. I know that 500lber near misses in WW2 often caused damage to ships so I would image a larger modern warhead would do the same.

Land targets seem to be effected by near misses, light damage and fires often occur.


If the fuze is modeled to be an impact, delayed type, then a miss is a miss. Many antiship missiles are designed to explode inside the ship expending both warhead and unspent fuel to cause max damage and have no proximity setting.



opfor06 -> RE: Missile Miss Distances - Should be Kills not Misses (10/10/2013 6:08:08 PM)

I can understand the lack of a proximity fuse (though I would think most modern missiles would have one even if it is not the primary). It is the radius of the shrapnel and blast once it hits just like weapons that just miss land targets to a lesser degree. If it is supposed to be like this then so be it. If it is supposed to cause some damage then there is a bug.



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