RE: F-86F Sabre (Full Version)

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Scorpion86 -> RE: F-86F Sabre (4/14/2021 5:33:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonpspri

Playing through the Dawn Strike scenario with CWDB v478 (game build 1147.14).

The AN/APS-20A radar (AEW) on the #3155 - AD-3W Skyraider (United States - 1951) has a search arc limited to forward. What secondary documentation I've found said the AN/APS-20A was a rotating antenna (hence the "guppy" radome under the fuselage. Compare to the AN/APS-20A on #3823 - TBM-3W Avenger (United States - 1946) found in the same scenario.

I think the appropriate change is to give the AN/APS-20A 360-degree coverage on #3155 AD-3W, unless there's a source I've been unable to find that says it was limited on that model


While we're at it, the same issue with AN/APS-20 series radars can also be found with another Skyraider - #132 Douglas AD-4W Skyraider - and several P2V Neptune aircraft - #588 (P2V-6), #2011, #2013 and #2017 (P2V-5) and #2895 (P2V-7). Thank you for bringing that up!



tylerblakebrandon -> RE: F-86F Sabre (4/14/2021 7:48:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jonpspri

Playing through the Dawn Strike scenario with CWDB v478 (game build 1147.14).

The AN/APS-20A radar (AEW) on the #3155 - AD-3W Skyraider (United States - 1951) has a search arc limited to forward. What secondary documentation I've found said the AN/APS-20A was a rotating antenna (hence the "guppy" radome under the fuselage. Compare to the AN/APS-20A on #3823 - TBM-3W Avenger (United States - 1946) found in the same scenario.

I think the appropriate change is to give the AN/APS-20A 360-degree coverage on #3155 AD-3W, unless there's a source I've been unable to find that says it was limited on that model


I believe the PW-1 AEW Flying Fortress also suffers the same coverage error.



Scorpion86 -> RE: F-86F Sabre (4/14/2021 9:41:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tylerblakebrandon
I believe the PW-1 AEW Flying Fortress also suffers the same coverage error.


That was corrected in a previous CWDB version, if I recall correctly.



tylerblakebrandon -> RE: F-86F Sabre (4/15/2021 11:22:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scorpion86

quote:

ORIGINAL: tylerblakebrandon
I believe the PW-1 AEW Flying Fortress also suffers the same coverage error.


That was corrected in a previous CWDB version, if I recall correctly.


I may have missed it then. Probably didn't update the last scenario it was in that I played.



miller7219 -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/10/2021 2:24:15 AM)

Suggestion for an update to the CW DB's Mk37 and M48 torpedo series:

Mk37

Mk37 Mod 1 and Mod 3 - Both were "single wire" (receive only) weapons, but in the CW DB v478 they are listed incorrectly as "dual wire" two-way guidance. Also, US subs of the 1960's era are listed in the database incorrectly with two-way comms. Should be changed to one way (send only). As far as research indicates, two-way torpedo wire guidance was first introduced in the late 1970's with the Mk48 Mod 3....all one-way send only prior.


Mk48

Mk48 Mod 1 - Listed in the current CW DB as "dual wire". The Mod 1 was single wire (send only) weapon per many book and internet resources. Dual wire (send and receive) was introduced in the Mod 3 (service date in the late 70s, @1977 per sources)

Mk48 Mod 4 - Research seems clear the purpose of the Mod 4 program was to increase the speed to counter ever-increasing target speeds. Other than speed, I think the Mod 4 and Mod 3 were virtually identical. The Mod 3's upgrade focus added the "dual wire" capability, but was virtually otherwise identical to the Mod 1. Haven't been able to narrow down a Mod 1 or 3 speed, but whatever the speed is the Mod 4 should likely be greater. In the current CW DB v478 and DB3000 v488 the Mod 3 and Mod 4 speeds are identical.




miller7219 -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/10/2021 2:39:00 AM)

This one's a bit nit-pickey, but US subs in 1960's/1970's era are all listed with a "Generic Acoustic Intercept" with "Late 70's" technology. Have had zero luck with book and internet resources researching the historic path of ACI technology. In fact I can't find much at all prior the LA Class' WLR-9 in 1978. I assume there were predecessors to the WLR-9 series ACIs, but I haven't been able to find them. Can a generic ACI, listing technology earlier the the late-70s, be added to the DB to coincide with earlier platforms' dates of service? I would assume earlier generics would be less capable (sensitive) than the WLR-9?



Broncepulido -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/10/2021 3:38:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: miller7219

This one's a bit nit-pickey, but US subs in 1960's/1970's era are all listed with a "Generic Acoustic Intercept" with "Late 70's" technology. Have had zero luck with book and internet resources researching the historic path of ACI technology. In fact I can't find much at all prior the LA Class' WLR-9 in 1978. I assume there were predecessors to the WLR-9 series ACIs, but I haven't been able to find them. Can a generic ACI, listing technology earlier the the late-70s, be added to the DB to coincide with earlier platforms' dates of service? I would assume earlier generics would be less capable (sensitive) than the WLR-9?

Not a clear subject, but some sketches and hints for research from my personal notes, probably most took of Cold War Submarines
https://www.amazon.com/Cold-War-Submarines-Construction-1945-2001/dp/1574885308 and mostly of US Submarines from 1945 https://www.amazon.com/U-S-Submarines-Since-1945-Revised/dp/1591145996/ref=sr_1_1?crid=4MLVHA6RN0JH&dchild=1&keywords=us+submarines+since+1945&qid=1620661342&sprefix=us+submarines+s%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C241&sr=8-1
:
quote:

BQG-4 PUFFS (3x6 vertical hydrophone arrays=18): 54 sets build 1960-1966. 9xGuppy III, 2xSalmon, 4xTangs, Darter, Grayback, Tullibee, some Threshers and some SSBN. Probably DUUX 2 inspired.

quote:

DUUG-1 Velox, 1962? (French system) intercept (Also with new transducers is UK Sonar 197): US Diesel subs, also SSN to Sturgeon.
Also in 209 class (Colombia, Argentina, Peru), 4 first Greek boats, Early exported 209 Boats (previously to CSU-3), Oberon (Canada, Chile, Australia, Brazil), Daphne (France, Pakistan, Portugal, South Africa), 206 (Germany), Toti (Italy), Tang (Turkey).

quote:

DUUG-2 (is also UK Sonar 2019 Paris): Directional, PPI France: Agosta, Rubis. Netherlands, replacing LWS-30 in all SS. Agosta (Pakistan, Spain).

quote:

Sonar 2019 Paris (is as DUUG-2), 1973: HF/MF/LF, Directional, PPI Trafalgar, Swiftsure, Valiant, UK SSBNs, Upholder. 12 sets upgraded in 1993.

quote:

Sonar 2082 (or 2072?), 1993, intercept: HF/MF/LF, replaces Sonar 2019
With the Hull Outfit 51R, (HO51R). In 1995 has replaced all the Sonar 2019.

quote:

TSM2243: is a DUUG-2 derivative

quote:

DUUG-5 (Velox M5/M6), is a DUUG-2 derivative: To replace UK Sonar 197 and DUUG-1. France: Agosta, French SSBNs. Italy: Sauro, Pelosi. Agosta (Pakistan, Spain).

quote:

DUUG-7 (Velox M7), 1992: Amethyste, Rubis.

quote:

WLR-5 was a failure

quote:

WLR/BLR-9/14: Skipjack, replacing DUUG-1.

quote:

WLR-12: Replaces WLR/BLR-9/14

quote:

WLR-17: Ohio (is as WLR-12).

quote:

SAWS-I intercept: Sturgeon.

quote:

SAWS-II intercept: Los Angeles with BQQ-5.

quote:

Svet-M, intercept, 1960?: Whiskey Long Bin, Romeo, Foxtrot, Golf




SkyhawkSG1 -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/17/2021 6:08:50 PM)

If this isn't a bug then the UH-2 Seasprite is my new air-superiority fighter of choice ;)
Link
Aircraft #4017 is to blame.

Additionally the loadout for the F-8J that is listed as "ZUNI 127mm HVAR, Mk83 LDGP" peculiarly arms the aircraft with 4x AIM-9B.
Link
Aircraft #1604 is the culprit.

I could not find any other thread regarding the CWDB so if this is wrong then sorry.



tylerblakebrandon -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/17/2021 7:54:40 PM)

Would like to request the addition of the below CW USN Amphibian/Flying Boats

Martin P6M SeaMaster - Bomber

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_P6M_SeaMaster

Convair R3Y Tradewind - Tanker/Transport

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_R3Y_Tradewind



Anzu -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/19/2021 5:48:21 PM)

Hello, some additions to the Finnish Navy Cold War Database:

The mine layer/mine sweeper Keihässalmi was launched in 1957 and served until 1994. It served as the navy flagship and also as a training ship later in the career.
She had a displacement of 360 t, length of 56 m, a beam of 7,7 m and a draught of 2,2 m.
The propulsion was two Wärtsilä diesels of 800 hp each, which gave a speed of 15 knots.

The equipment was originally quite spartan, with navigational radar and only optic gun fire control + a search light but was later updated with gun fire control radar.

Original equipment
-Decca 707 #3760
-Generic Optical Sight -- Anti-Air & Surface #1020
-Generic Searchlight #251
-Generic Mechanical Cable Cutter Mine Sweep #4657
-Generic Magnetic Mine Sweep

Original mounts and weapons (1957-1975)
-3 x 40mm/60 Single Bofors -- Generic #993
-2 x 20mm/60 #1027
-2 x mine rails for a total of 100 mines
-2 x Depth Charge Rack [12 DC] #200
-2 x Depth Charge Throwers [12 DC] #1109

Equipment 1957-1975
-Decca 707 #3760
-Drum Tilt [MR-104 Rys] -- 25mm & 30mm GFCR #1545
-Bell Tap RWR #1434
-Generic Mechanical Cable Cutter Mine Sweep #4657
-Generic Magnetic Mine Sweep

Mounts and weapons (1975-1994)
-2 x AK-230 30mm/65 Twin #234
-2 x 20mm/60 #1027
-12.7mm/50 MG -- Facility/Ship, No Anti-Air Capability #561
-2 x Depth Charge Rack [12 DC] #200
-2 x Depth Charge Throwers [12 DC] #1109

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_minelayer_Keih%C3%A4ssalmi
http://www.forum-marinum.fi/fi/nayttelyt/museoalukset/miinalaiva-keihassalmi/



Anzu -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/19/2021 5:49:17 PM)

In 1962 Finland purchased the Royal Navy anti-aircraft frigate HMS Porlock Bay (#26) and renamed her Matti Kurki. In the Finnish Navy she primarily was a training ship, but also had
a combat role. She was scrapped in 1976.

Mounts/Stores/Weapons
-2 x 102mm/45 Mk16 Twin -- RN, 4-inch #1017
-2 x 40mm/60 Twin Bofors #205
-2 x 40mm/70 m/48 Single Bofors #1792
-2 x 20mm/60 #1027
-1 x Mk15 Hedgehog Trainable ASW Mortar #1988
-2 x Depth Charge Rack [12 DC] #200
-4 x Depth Charge Throwers [12 DC] #1109

Equipment
-Type 276 Radar
-Type 285 GFCR
-Type 293Q Radar #2574
-Type 974 [Decca 12] #4498
-FH-4 HF/DF #740
-Type 147 sonar #1411

Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Porlock_Bay_(K650)
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koululaiva_Matti_Kurki



Anzu -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/19/2021 5:50:42 PM)

In 1964 Finland also purchase two modified Soviet Riga-class Frigates (#550), Filin (renamed Uusimaa) and SKR-69 (renamed Hämeenmaa).
They were operated together as the Hämeenmaa-class until 1979 when the Hämeenmaa was rebuilt as a mine layer and the Uusimaa scrapped for parts.

They were quite similar to the Soviet ships, but there were some small differences:

Mounts/Stores/Weapons
-3 x 100 mm/56 single #477
-2 x 40mm/70 m/48 Single Bofors #1792
-1 x AK-230 30mm/65 Twin #234
-1 x 533mm Triple TT #2212
-2 x Mk15 Hedgehog Trainable ASW Mortar #1988
-2 x Depth Charge Rack [12 DC] #200
-2 x Depth Charge Throwers [12 DC] #1109

Equipment:
-Buck Toe [GAS-572 Pegas 2] #1364
-Slim Net [Fut-N] #1566
-Hawk Screech [Yakor] -- GFCR, 45mm, 57mm, 76mm, 100mm #1540
-Drum Tilt [MR-104 Rys] -- 25mm & 30mm GFCR #1545
-Decca 707 #3760
-Watch Dog B [Bizan] -- Jug Pair, adds omni #1100

In 1980 Uusimaa was scrapped and Hämeenmaa rebuilt as a mine layer, where some of the equipment were removed, exchanged or updated.
The Hedgehog racks and and torpedo tubes were removed and mine rails for 200 mixed naval mines added.


Sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_frigate_H%C3%A4meenmaa
https://puolustusvoimat.fi/documents/1948673/9261842/PEVIESTOS_Laivaston+sanomat+2018.pdf/c2e71f59-d9bb-653a-b998-06c011fc10bb/PEVIESTOS_Laivaston+sanomat+2018.pdf (pages 34-37)



Broncepulido -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (5/26/2021 3:24:41 PM)

An incredible open tool for weapons and military platforms, radars and any type of military hardware:
https://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php



msc -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (6/13/2021 6:37:52 PM)

Is it possible to get #841-P6092 Zobel [Type 142A] (Germany FRG 1967) into the latest CWDB database?

This unit was already existing in database CWDB_443 but I am missing it in the latest database; so playing/update of the old scenarios does not work.



cpribeiro -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (6/16/2021 11:57:19 PM)

I'm really enjoying the game, but reading iconic stories of some aircraft I stumbled upon the Mirage IV, never realizing - due to the "mirage look" - its size and role as a strategic bomber.
Months ago I made a scenario depicting the Black Buck missions and thought about doing the same with this plane.
Please don't take my request as a criticism, but I read in a source that for long range missions the basic formation included a pair, a bomber and a tanker, but in the game there is no buddy refueling kit, like in A4 for example, could you include?
This is a artistic impression made by me:
[image]https://i.imgur.com/wQdTCSu.jpg[/image]
Thanks



Randomizer -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (7/17/2021 4:19:15 PM)

Can we please get an unarmed maritime patrol loadout for the CP-107 Argus Mk.II. Thanks.

-C



Randomizer -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (8/3/2021 5:56:10 PM)

Proposed hypothetical United States naval unit. This appears conceptually in the 1970/71 edition of Jane's Fighting Ships. The idea died with the signing of the 1972 ABM Treaty.

SABIS = Sea-based Anti Ballistic Missile Intercept System

~ 20,000 ton cruiser-based hull.

Nuclear propelled ~30 knot speed

Sensors:

4 x navalized AN/FPQ-16 PARCS each covering quadrant-plus arcs.

Typical late 1960's early 1970's navigation, air search and surface search radars (LN-66, AN/SPS-10 etc).

Typical large-combatant comms suite for the time

Weapons:

4 x Sea Sparrow 8-pack box launchers for point defence with reloads located in the quarters; port and starboard, forward and aft.

60 x LIM-49 navalized Spartan missiles in vertical launch tubes with 360* firing arcs.

Facilities for 1-2 helos

Flags
Nuclear shock resistant

The image below is functionally identical to the image in Jane's 1970/71 edition. Thanks.

-C



[image]local://upfiles/29576/DAAE95D38A754308BA30E82930210BAF.jpg[/image]



Vulcan607 -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (8/9/2021 9:49:39 PM)

Buccaneer B.108 with TSR2 radar
There’s a load more on secret projects but I don’t want to push my luck suggesting all of them! (Just yet)
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/blackburn-buccaneer-developments.3110/page-2



Coiler12 -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (8/18/2021 9:28:20 PM)

F11-1F Super Tiger: Hypothetical Aircraft.

Primary source: F11-1F Super Tiger by Corky Meyer.

-Proposed upgrade of the F-11 with a J79 engine, with multiple versions, including multirole exports.

Super Tiger Design 98J-1
-Primary change from the vanilla Tiger (Aircraft #671) is in its engine, which should improve acceleration and go to the max-in-practice Mach 1.6 (the current Tiger only goes up to 1.53).
-Only listed armament 4 Sidewinders.

Super Tiger Design 98J-2
-All weather carrier fighter.
-Can be equipped with 2 Sidewinders, 2 Sparrows (along with the appropriate radar), and 2 150 gallon drop tanks.
-Alternatively, could theoretically carry 4 Sidewinders.

Super Tiger Design 98J-5 Export
-Export version, presumably without carrier capability.
-Multirole capability, as shown in the picture.
-Was tested with Bullpup missiles in addition to the bombs shown.
-Radar an "APQ-50 type".

Super Tiger Design 98J-7 Two Seater
-Two seat all weather carrier fighter.
-As with the others (APQ-50 radar, J79 engine), but with a maximum capacity of four Sparrows and four Sidewinders at once.

All versions should be flagged as hypothetical.




[image]local://upfiles/46462/93124A3B16304169983F86EA69DDE618.jpg[/image]



rickywild -> RE: F-86F Sabre (9/17/2021 5:08:55 PM)

AD-6 variants (include EA-1) has incorrect fuel consumption (1.3 on military power vs 4.66 on cruise)



rickywild -> RE: F-86F Sabre (9/17/2021 5:15:34 PM)

F-8E (297 in DB) has incorrect loadout name 2325
text: zuni, bombs
fact: 4x aim-9b



thewood1 -> RE: F-86F Sabre (10/3/2021 7:08:31 PM)

AJ-2 Savage should have drogue tanker capability. Confirmation and pic in Squadron/Signal USN Aircraft Carrier Air Units Volume 1: 1946-1956 pg. 56/57. It appears to be off the standard 1200 gal. drop tanks. AJ-1s were also used the same way. Trying to build a 1955 cold war in the Pacific scenario and noticed this.

Also shown on the web...

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nnam/explore/collections/aircraft/a/aj-2-savage0/aj-2-savage-refuels-fj-3m-fury-fighters.html




boogabooga -> RE: F-86F Sabre (10/4/2021 2:03:39 AM)

Serious question, but is the CWDB still being maintained? It's been years since it has been updated, possible not since CMO came out.



boogabooga -> RE: F-86F Sabre (10/4/2021 2:04:27 AM)

[double post]

edit:
I got an answer to that really fast; thank you for CWDB v491!



boogabooga -> RE: Cruisers with abstract capacity but real fuel use (10/17/2021 7:13:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

I've noticed that almost all F-105 Thunderchief versions in the current CWDB have 2x J75 engines. The F-105 should have only one J75:

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196044/republic-f-105g-thunderchief/
https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196054/republic-f-105d-thunderchief/


This appears to still be an issue in CWDB 491.



boogabooga -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (10/17/2021 7:23:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

There is a discrepancy between CWDB v478 and DB3000 v487 with the AN/APQ-104 radar on the F-8E(FN). The former has it as an 8 nm range-only radar while the later has it as a 60 nm full-service FCR.

I'm not sure which is correct, but I tend to believe the later, as it's used to guide the R.530 SARH.



I appreciate that the radar discrepancy was resolved on the F-8E(FN)s in CWDB v491. However, there appears to be a new issue with these Aircraft (#668 and #2847):

Loadout 594 says that it is for the AIM-9C, but is in fact missing its missiles completely and reverts to an all-gun loadout. Also, I believe the loadout should be for the R.530 SARH and not the AIM-9C.



Broncepulido -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (10/17/2021 8:42:12 PM)

Some details here:
http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/crusader.htm



boogabooga -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (11/5/2021 9:31:30 PM)

It seems that both B-29s (Aircraft 388 and 2193) have been removed from the CWDB v491 for some reason. They were present in 478, and scenarios that used them can not be rebuilt.



boogabooga -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (11/5/2021 9:34:55 PM)

The AIM-9C Sidewinder (Weapon 247) lacks the "Illuminate at launch" property and therefore can't be fired.



tylerblakebrandon -> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests (11/8/2021 12:23:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

It seems that both B-29s (Aircraft 388 and 2193) have been removed from the CWDB v491 for some reason. They were present in 478, and scenarios that used them can not be rebuilt.


It actually appears all us B-17, B-24, and B-29 where removed and all but the CIA version of the B-25.



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