[FIXED B453] Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (Full Version)

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Dimitris -> [FIXED B453] Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/25/2013 6:06:25 PM)

Hi all,

Recently we've had numerous reports that indicate that, at least under certain conditions, unchecking the "investigate outside patrol area" patrol option does not in fact prevent patrol assets from chasing contacts outside located outside the patrol zones. We haven't however seen any save games demonstrating this issue.

Next time someone faces this issue, would it be possible to post a save on this thread? It would help us significantly to isolate the issue and see under what conditions it is happening.

Thanks a lot!



Tomcat84 -> RE: Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/25/2013 7:41:22 PM)

Activate CAP mission and see what happens.

The AMRAAM shooter engages, AIM-9 guy doesnt. To me it seems to have something to do with weapon range.

here is my repost of what I posted about this earlier in beta (if this is not what you mean then sorry):


I agree that something is wrong.

I had been having issues with this as well but never given it a full test but I did some testing now.
My results suggest that maybe it has something to do with whether or not the aircraft is within or close to being within range of its applicable weapons

Results below:

First Situation: single F-16 with AMRAAMs, AWACS, A400 Grizzly of the other side transiting through a no nav zone, starts with inactive mission:

[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea1.jpg[/image]


Activate the mission, he plots a course in patrol area, then after 6-9 seconds goes engaged offensive:

[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea2.jpg[/image]

[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea3.jpg[/image]


it doesnt go into the no nav zone but keeps banging against the wall so to speak.


[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea4.jpg[/image]

Declare it hostile and it will shoot into the no nav zone at this contact outside patrol area.

[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea5.jpg[/image]


Now, change it up.

We add a guy to the patrol that only has AIM-9s.
And we copy the situation but put em further to the east outside AMRAAM range. So we have two with AIM120s, and 2 with AIM9s. A far one and a close one for each weapon type.

[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea6.jpg[/image]

Activate both missions. What happens?

The AMRAAM dude in the west goes engaged offensive again. Everybody else, stays on patrol.

[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea7.jpg[/image]

I delete AMRAAM guy in the west cause we know what he does.

Then I tick Investigate contacts. And:

[image]http://bmetz2.home.xs4all.nl/images/command/outsidearea8.jpg[/image]

Everybody goes engaged which makes sense (although is there a max range? Will it chase a guy 400 nm away? (asking the question means you gotta check, the answer is, yes it will. Moved the Grizzly to Ireland and they wanted to engage him 450 nm away (with the box checked that is. Without, they ignored him).

So my conclusion is that it has something to do with weapon ranges somehow? Although with the east guy, initially I put it so he was just outside red range circle and he did still go engaged. I had to move him a bit further out before he ignored it.


And the presence of the no nav zone did not seem to make a difference (other than the border hugging).
I also tried making the no nav zone much much bigger and that didnt seem to phase the west AIM120 jet.

So two things that need looking at I think. The Dont investigate outside target area and what criteria it uses and what weaponry has to do with it. And, if there should also be a no target zone, in addition to a no nav zone (or allow a tick mark when making the no nav zone to also be a no target zone, if that makes sense)


Zip file with my test scenario is attached. Remember to activate the missions.


source thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3402212



Dimitris -> RE: Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/28/2013 12:25:44 PM)

Thanks a million!

Your very detailed description and save allowed me to investigate this in detail and find the root problem.

Here's what was happening: For aircraft AI, there are two "checks" in the patrol logic pipeline that determine if a contact is to be targeted, either for investigation/ID or for engagement?
1) Is this contact relevant to my mission?
2) Even if it's not, is it within close reach of any of the weapons I have? (logic for opportunity shots)

The first check does include the "am I allowed to investigate outside my patrol area?" clause. The second one, until now, did not. Hence the AIM-120 shooters were discovering that hey, this guy is close enough that if I chase him for a while I can get him within AMRAAM envelope. So off they ran.

Fixed in Build 453; the investigate-outside-area check now takes precedence over opportunity engagements.

Again, thanks! We really wish we had such supreme feedback for all the issues under investigation.



Tomcat84 -> RE: Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/28/2013 1:11:02 PM)

Glad to be of help!
I do what I can, but of course my interest (and my knowledge) lies mostly with air ops so thats where I try to contribute the most.

I still think it would be cool to designate a targeting zone, because right now, setting the patrol area means that the guys will also roam throughout that thing. I'd rather have them CAP between two waypoints until someone enters the targeting zone and then commit on that for two reasons:
- I think it's more realistic
- If I'm defending a coast or something, I may want my guys to target and commit on any hostiles once they hit 80 miles out of the coast, but that doesnt mean i want my guys roaming around that far out, make sense?

Either way, this is a very nice fix and it should help a lot. But of course I will always push for more improvements. I am never satisfied [:D]



Andy99 -> RE: Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/28/2013 2:20:15 PM)

Excellent, thanks for fixing guys!



Maromak -> RE: Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/28/2013 2:27:55 PM)

Thanks team (and TC)! This has been a long standing issue which, while not major, did cause a lot of micromanagement.



Der Zeitgeist -> RE: Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/28/2013 6:30:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tomcat84

Glad to be of help!
I do what I can, but of course my interest (and my knowledge) lies mostly with air ops so thats where I try to contribute the most.

I still think it would be cool to designate a targeting zone, because right now, setting the patrol area means that the guys will also roam throughout that thing. I'd rather have them CAP between two waypoints until someone enters the targeting zone and then commit on that for two reasons:
- I think it's more realistic
- If I'm defending a coast or something, I may want my guys to target and commit on any hostiles once they hit 80 miles out of the coast, but that doesnt mean i want my guys roaming around that far out, make sense?

Either way, this is a very nice fix and it should help a lot. But of course I will always push for more improvements. I am never satisfied [:D]


+1

I agree, that would be useful. Maybe an additional checkbox for patrol missions, "Target zone, but do not enter". Would be highly effective for standoff SEAD missions.



sneekyzeke -> RE: Example save for "investigate outside patrol area" problem? (10/28/2013 7:07:20 PM)

This is a big one; thanks guys!



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