Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (Full Version)

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deadsunwheel -> Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (10/28/2013 10:29:57 PM)

Hello everyone.

I am in the process of making a scenario and could use some advice on how I could make it better. The premise is that it is the late stages of a World War III in 1985. The conventional war has been as horrific as the predictions of the worst alarmist. Catastrophic civilian casualties have shocked Germany and the world. In the face of this the Bonn government surrenders both to save their nation and hopefully bring about an end to the conflict before it goes the next logical step, nuclear exchange. NATO leadership has other ideas though. Convinced that a counter punch offensive will shatter Soviet morale and drive them back to the Ukraine a battle group is being assembled in the Netherlands. To buy the time required to get the force together though will require a show of strength and resolve. This is where the scenario comes into play.

An exhausted and depleted Scots Guards Brigade is holding out in Suddendorf. A report comes down from NORTHAG that a fresh Moto Rifle reserve regiment is on the way. They must pull out in preparation for a nuclear strike to stop the Russian advance or if possible hold the line on their own depending on the commanding officers assessment of the situation.

Enough of the backdrop though. So far the scenario as created is a classic pocket. British forces are dug in at Suddendorf with a few improved positions while the Soviet Moto Rifles have almost surrounded them. The scenario is intended as a NATO mission but I would like to create a version for Head to Head and Soviet play. Basically what I want to accomplish in the Scenario is three things.

i- Have a small elite, well equipped, but demoralized force face up against a massive green or militia force that are relatively poorly equipped. I think a lot of wargamers have a fondness for the Rorke's Drift scenario.

ii- The NATO player should have to decide if making a break for the exit hexes or holding firm is the better option for victory.

iii- The Soviet player should have to worry about his brittle forces collapsing and allowing the British to escape if he pushes too hard.

Having tested the mission a few times the AI seems to have some trouble both sides. As the Soviet it tends to not close down the escape path for the British swiftly enough to prevent an escape. To compound this it usually sends part of the force intended to close the gap around an extended tree line to assault Suddendorf. This usually leaves them punching at air since the British have long gone (see attached screen shot).

On the British side it acts oddly as well. The key failure seems to be it not wanting to exit units. The British forces will spread out and move toward the exit hexes sometimes arriving directly beside them, but they will not leave. I am not sure how to fix this AI behavior.

I have not play tested it head to head at this stage.

Aside from these two issues there is still a lot of force balancing to do. As it stands I have about 112 British runners facing off against 332 Soviet runners, which may be a bit much in such a restricted map area. Only more play testing can finesse this out though.

So what do you guys think? How can I convince the AI to do what I want it to? I could issue some pre defined starting orders to force it to close the gap, but I really would hate to resort to something so clumsy.



Mad Russian -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (10/28/2013 10:58:02 PM)

We'll take it one step at a time and see what we come up with.

You need to pick a single mode and playbalance that out. Don't try to do two or three things at once because that rarely works. Pick the side you want to try to make work first. Whether that's NATO or WP.

quote:


As the Soviet it tends to not close down the escape path for the British swiftly enough to prevent an escape. To compound this it usually sends part of the force intended to close the gap around an extended tree line to assault Suddendorf. This usually leaves them punching at air since the British have long gone (see attached screen shot).



1) This is a reserve unit as such they may have a low training number. If they do they will move more slowly and you may have to start them on the map further south.

- What level of training do you have for the WP units?
- Are they all the same?
- Or do they have differing training, readiness and morale from unit to unit? (I recommend they do for a more realistic balance. Often the number 1 or A unit is the best unit in a formation. Not always but much of the time.)

2) If you need the AI to go somewhere you tell it that by putting Victory Locations (VL) there. Make them big enough to get the AI's attention.



quote:


On the British side it acts oddly as well. The key failure seems to be it not wanting to exit units. The British forces will spread out and move toward the exit hexes sometimes arriving directly beside them, but they will not leave. I am not sure how to fix this AI behavior.


1) At the moment the exit locations are not valued enough. That will change soon. I recommend until then we work on the NATO mode scenario.


It looks as though you need to add bridges to your map. They are not automatically populated where roads cross water obstacles. You have to put them on the map.

In the Player 2 Name, Force Name and Insignia box you need to use the military initials for the Soviet unit. 10th Motorized Rifle Regiment doesn't fit. Use 10th MRR instead.

Good Hunting.

MR




deadsunwheel -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (10/28/2013 11:08:00 PM)

Sounds like a plan MR. I'll concentrate on the NATO experience to start with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
This is a reserve unit as such they may have a low training number. If they do they will move more slowly and you may have to start them on the map further south.

- What level of training do you have for the WP units?
- Are they all the same?
- Or do they have differing training, readiness and morale from unit to unit? (I recommend they do for a more realistic balance. Often the number 1 or A unit is the best unit in a formation. Not always but much of the time.)


The Soviet formation is a reserve unit with differing readiness, moral and training for each unit. The first battalion has been assigned a higher training value of 4 (green) the rest of the force is at ranking 2 (militia and bad ones). The force intended to close the gap is the 2nd battalion, one of bad ones. I'll try moving it a bit further south and boost the VP values on the road to see if that gets things moving.




Mad Russian -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (10/28/2013 11:12:26 PM)

Boost those VP's to about 500 and see if that makes a difference.

Put your bridges in. The Soviet force to the south has to bridge the river before it can even begin to move towards the VL's. That gives the Brits a 30 minute head start from the very beginning and they move faster because of their higher training.

Good Hunting.

MR



Hexagon -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (10/29/2013 11:44:43 AM)

A little question, is possible use units from other nation in the same side??? because if is possible i add a small german kampgruppe made of Leo I + some M113 mech infantry to try mantein open Hildenaus door... this or detach 2-3 units from the UK brigade to do the same mission and in soviet deploy... i start battle in the sunrise to have soviets with a small bridgehead in the south to try take fast Bad Bentheim, the idea is made UK units fighting from the first moment to mantein open the scape route, not against main soviet force but enough to made UK player have a bad moment and the soviet player with the chance to engage more than the UK block units. Ummm maybe add some reinforces for soviets??? 1 or 2 extra tank regiments to use in the last part of battle if UK player doesnt retreat fast enough??? appearing in the flanks of the exit zone for example, and maybe a 3rd one to reinforce main attack in the center.

But scen looks great, is an interesting tactical situation.



CapnDarwin -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (10/29/2013 12:09:20 PM)

Not right now. Only one nation per side. It is on our feature list for the future to get multinational per side. Just a lot of work to get there.



deadsunwheel -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (10/30/2013 12:03:35 AM)

quote:

ORGINAL: Hexagon
But scen looks great, is an interesting tactical situation.


Thanks for the vote of support! The Soviet units at the Southern edge of the map are all reinforcements, and the British are reinforced by some Divisional artillery and a flight of Harriers later in the mission. The scenario is still going through initial play testing, hopefully by this weekend I`ll have something rough to put up. The story is in being written at the moment as well.

I have a whole new level of respect for all the work MR put into getting basic game scenarios together. And I`m not even trying to make a map!



deadsunwheel -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/2/2013 5:42:12 PM)

For those who might be watching a play test version of this scenario is going to be a little delayed. Getting the balance of forces right is quite the challenge and it just isn't playing out as I would like yet. With luck I will get things ticking along shortly.



Mad Russian -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/2/2013 5:46:26 PM)

What is the issue?

If you like I can look at it and see what I think. If you like, show me some screen shots of how you don't think it's doing what you want. I would think that has to do with the size and placement of the Victory Locations but without seeing the scenario it's hard to say.

Good Hunting.

MR



deadsunwheel -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/2/2013 8:51:19 PM)

The only issue is fine tuning the force balance at the moment. Things are a bit too easy on the Brits for my liking. I just need to find that fabled "sweet spot" where the player should be unsure whether they want to quit out of frustration or push on for one more turn.



Mad Russian -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/3/2013 12:18:31 AM)

The complicated situation you chose to model isn't helping. This isn't a straight up move forward, kill units and take ground battle. This battle will take more playtesting than usual to get it where you want it.

Good Hunting.

MR



deadsunwheel -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/9/2013 4:20:48 AM)

Well I now have a scenario that is getting pretty close to where I want it. Can anyone advise a good file sharing site to make it available for play testing?

The story line has yet to be written as most of my time has been spent trying to fine tune the balance. It should be done in the next week or two though assuming the scenario it self does not need to go back to the drawing board.



wodin -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/9/2013 5:50:03 AM)

I use 4shared or if you have a hotmail account use skydrive.



Mad Russian -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/9/2013 11:32:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deadsunwheel

The story line has yet to be written as most of my time has been spent trying to fine tune the balance. It should be done in the next week or two though assuming the scenario it self does not need to go back to the drawing board.


If you are comfortable with it then it likely will only need tweaks and not a complete overhaul.

That's what I'm expecting.

Good Hunting.

MR



deadsunwheel -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/9/2013 7:35:16 PM)

Thanks for the tip Wodin, I have now signed up for 4Shared. For the interested I have put up the scenario to test out. The AI now seems to do a decent job of closing the trap and putting some pressure on the starting positions. A few points to know going in.

1) The Soviets have air support for the scenario except for a brief excursion by the RAF. Try to keep your Blowpipes and Rapiers safe, some AD is better than none.
2) Check your ammo and readiness situation at the start of the scenario. Many units are tired and running low on ammunition.
3) Divisional artillery becomes available shortly into the scenario to either assist making your escape or holding to the city.

Storm in a Tea Cup



Mad Russian -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/9/2013 7:46:56 PM)

What is this iLividSetup?

I just want the file not 8 add ons. How do we just download the file without any of their other BS?

Good Hunting.

MR



deadsunwheel -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/9/2013 8:54:50 PM)

quote:


I just want the file not 8 add ons. How do we just download the file without any of their other BS?


I completely agree with you MR. Like most of these download sites there is one place where you can click and not get hit with a barrage of add ons, "apps", and potential mal ware. Attached below is a screen shot of the button to use to bypass the BS.



[image]local://upfiles/33900/0E3C167E4B8449E3B14D7FBBF641A6BE.jpg[/image]



Mad Russian -> RE: Building a Scenario: British-Soviet 1985 (11/10/2013 11:53:07 AM)

Thank you. That is more appreciated than you know.

Good Hunting.

MR



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