Political Points (Full Version)

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Michael T -> Political Points (10/29/2013 5:36:47 AM)

What are Political Points?

They are not National Morale right?



Michael T -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 6:07:27 AM)

For example the game warns me that sacking some leader will cost 100 political points.

What does that equate too?



Ace1_slith -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 8:39:58 AM)

Every general has politic point value assigned to him. Higher politic value means higher politic penalties (NM and VP cost) for bypassing a general for promotion or Army command.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 9:17:05 AM)

If you hover the mouse over the create army button, the tooltip should tell you exactly how much VP and NM it will cost to bypass the higher seniority leader.

Jim



Michael T -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 12:46:02 PM)

Thanks, so Political Points are window dressing then. Its only NM that matters.



Aurelian -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 6:45:59 PM)

Victory Points *do* matter.

Page 6: If neither side can break the other’s morale, victory points will determine
the result of the game.

Page 14: Automatic Victory (or defeat) is achieved when one side reaches its minimum
or maximum “National Morale” (NM) level. However, if the game ends without
reaching an Automatic Victory, the “Victory Points” (VP s) of each side determine
the winner. The side with more VP s wins the war and the level of victory is based
on the VP difference.



Michael T -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 10:03:56 PM)

Are you saying Political Points = Victory Points?



The Red Baron -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 10:47:42 PM)

No. There are no political points in the game, just a politic value for each general.

A general's politic value dictates the NM and VP penalties you suffer if you promote a less senior general to the rank of 2* or 3* ;or, you bypass the current general and assign a less senior general to Army command. The higher the politic value, the higher the NM and VP penalties you pay when skipping seniority; so, continually skipping seniority when promoting generals or assigning army command may cost you ultimate victory in the game via the NM and VP penalties you suffer.

N.B.: the lower a general's seniority number, the higher his seniority in the command hierarchy.



loki100 -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 11:13:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Thanks, so Political Points are window dressing then. Its only NM that matters.


You also need VPs as the currency for some decisions or regional cards you might want to play, so you need to be careful about expending them on dismissing Generals



Michael T -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 11:35:48 PM)

I think I was thrown a red herring by an event I saw that stated "100 Political Points will be lost if you replace so and so"

I fully understand the other concepts mentioned. Its just this one above that has thrown me.



The Red Baron -> RE: Political Points (10/29/2013 11:44:03 PM)

Maybe you misread the event? Maybe it said 100 VPs will be lost if you replace so and so? There's no way the game engine would charge 100 NM for appointing a less senior general, since this would end almost any game real quick.

If not, then maybe there's an error in the text string used in the code. It should probably say Victory Points, not Political Points.



Michael T -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 1:09:04 AM)

Here is the event and tooltip message.

[image]local://upfiles/22630/6353656D77E44552B10DBD81B774E28F.jpg[/image]



mmarquo -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 1:18:11 AM)

I had the message.



Q-Ball -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 3:00:36 AM)

Because the Union can create unlimited Armies, though, you never have to pay that penalty. Just send the Leader and his "army" to some rear area, and create a new one with the guy you want.

There probably should be a limit on number of armies you can create, which would prevent that workaround, but for now, that's the way you do it



The Red Baron -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 3:14:19 AM)

I have to believe the tooltip text is incorrect. It should say Victory Points, not Political Points. The games does not track political points and paying 100 in NM would be too steep a price. The developers should address this one.



mmarquo -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 4:02:00 AM)

The Union can only build as many armies as their are 3* generals, it is limited.



Q-Ball -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 4:39:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

The Union can only build as many armies as their are 3* generals, it is limited.


This is true, but for purposes of avoiding the penalties, it's all you need to do. One army for every 3* general.



Ace1_slith -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 9:19:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Red Baron

I have to believe the tooltip text is incorrect. It should say Victory Points, not Political Points. The games does not track political points and paying 100 in NM would be too steep a price. The developers should address this one.


Actually, it should say politic rating of general is 100 points - you can see this rating for every general in unit info. The higher political rating, more cost if he is bypassed.



veji1 -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 12:03:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Because the Union can create unlimited Armies, though, you never have to pay that penalty. Just send the Leader and his "army" to some rear area, and create a new one with the guy you want.

There probably should be a limit on number of armies you can create, which would prevent that workaround, but for now, that's the way you do it


This is a big no no... The course of the war in the east depends on the Union having to do with the bad political generals, a Union that can optimize its command structure too quickly sort of breaks the game...



vonRocko -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 1:52:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Because the Union can create unlimited Armies, though, you never have to pay that penalty. Just send the Leader and his "army" to some rear area, and create a new one with the guy you want.

There probably should be a limit on number of armies you can create, which would prevent that workaround, but for now, that's the way you do it


This is a big no no... The course of the war in the east depends on the Union having to do with the bad political generals, a Union that can optimize its command structure too quickly sort of breaks the game...


I agree, you don't even need the "HQ support"unit anymore for an army. Seems to me another "streamlined" feature to make it easier on "casual" players.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 6:38:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Red Baron

I have to believe the tooltip text is incorrect.


Probably a miss-translation from French to English, but the intent is political points not victory points. Later there is an event that reduces McClellan's politic point cost to demote him to something like 25 can't remember for sure.

So they didn't mean it costs political points, they meant to say his political point cost is now 100. That cost may very well mean hundreds of victory points and dozens of national morale, so the number 100 should not be confused with a number deducted from any of your pools. It is merely the number used to calculate the cost to demote him, i.e. political point cost.

Jim



Michael T -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 10:02:42 PM)

Why not just give us the VP and NM cost? This Politic number seems like a smoke screen.



The Red Baron -> RE: Political Points (10/30/2013 10:09:57 PM)

I suppose it accurately reflects the uncertainty a real general or president might have faced; i.e., you know a particular general is well-connected politically, but you don't know exactly how much snubbing him might cost you. You just know it will cost a lot (or a little)



willgamer -> RE: Political Points (10/31/2013 2:19:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko


quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Because the Union can create unlimited Armies, though, you never have to pay that penalty. Just send the Leader and his "army" to some rear area, and create a new one with the guy you want.

There probably should be a limit on number of armies you can create, which would prevent that workaround, but for now, that's the way you do it


This is a big no no... The course of the war in the east depends on the Union having to do with the bad political generals, a Union that can optimize its command structure too quickly sort of breaks the game...


I agree, you don't even need the "HQ support"unit anymore for an army. Seems to me another "streamlined" feature to make it easier on "casual" players.


Related discussion over on AGEOD boards:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?33021-Army-creation&p=295657#post295657



Pocus -> RE: Political Points (11/5/2013 8:33:44 AM)

There is no unlimited number of armies, there is a hard limit for each nation.



veji1 -> RE: Political Points (11/5/2013 8:51:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

There is no unlimited number of armies, there is a hard limit for each nation.


But shouldn't that hard cap not just climb slowly ? particularly for the Union ? If you only have say 5 armies until late 62, you have to use your political generals because you need the armies in the field, you can't just give them an army and send it to Maine. If you use better generals with less political clout, than you pay a penalty for not having given an army to the political general.

That number can than climb in 63 and become virtually limitless in 64 ?



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