Campaign battle length

Campaign battle length (Full Version)

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Spike -> Campaign battle length (3/2/2001 7:51:00 AM)
Hello, I just started a campaign and the first battle was an assault - which said the length was 34 I believe. The question I have is why did the battle end on turn 12!? I was within 2 or three turns of taking a bunch of victory hexes (I wasn't in a rush..) and the battle just ended. (a decisive defeat for me..grr..) Not sure if this is campaign related, but it hadn't done that to me in a normal battle before. I'm using ver 4.5 if that matters at all. If anyone has any ideas please tell me, doubt I'll continue my campaign until I see what the deal is! :0

mogami -> (3/2/2001 7:56:00 AM)
Hi, Did the AI control all the VH's for a complete turn? ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

Spike -> (3/2/2001 8:29:00 AM)
I would guess he had them all for a bunch of turns.. he was defending and I was attacking. I just can't see why it ended so prematurely when I had just started to break his lines and was within 2-3 turns of capturing a nice portion of the VH's. (btw - they were hexes that give points only at the end of the battle, NOT the per-turn ones) Definately has me a little PO'ed since I had been playing a few hours to get there, then wham end of battle! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

mogami -> (3/2/2001 8:35:00 AM)
Hi, battles will end before the set number of turns if during a meeting/delay one side controls all the VH's or if during an assault attacker occupies all VH's or during any type battle one side breaks (loses morale) How heavy were your lossess (did you notice units not under fire aquiring suppression points?) what is really bad is when the computer breaks before you occupy the VH's (he gets credit I think which should not happen) Just consider these type battles victorys and proceed. (Don't let what computer says get to you, you will know what the real result was) ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction! [This message has been edited by Mogami (edited March 01, 2001).]

Spike -> (3/2/2001 9:20:00 AM)
Thanks for the quick replies! I took some pretty good losses, but I didn't notice my guys getting suppression when not under fire.. and for that matter the enemy had taken more losses than I had (and he seemed to be retreating alot of his men, so maybe he was breaking) Seems like the battle should continue had he been breaking.. or at least have given me the VH's since I just had to go collect them. (if it doesn't do that I would think that's a bug?) (though I'm not entirely convinced that he was breaking, I viewed the map after the battle ended and he had some bunkers/other stuff that I hadn't even seen yet..) P.S. Since I didn't say it in my first two messages - Thanks for this Great game guys! Have already spent more time playing this than playing a bunch of games I spent lots of $$ on. (Just wish I could play it on my oooold laptop, but it only supports 640x480 res. so doesn't seem to work)

victorhauser -> (3/2/2001 10:24:00 AM)
Spike: The computer absolutely will not surrender if it controls at least 1 victory hex. This means that the only way your game could've ended early is that the computer determined that your force was broken. Sometimes what happens (especially if you play with Fast Artillery ON like I do) is that your troops will suffer an immense artillery bombardment at the end of a particular computer turn which kills and/or routs a bunch of your troops that just a moment before were in excellent condition--resulting in decisive defeat for your side. That is what must've happened because you said you suffered a decisive defeat.

mogami -> (3/2/2001 10:29:00 AM)
Hi, Victor is right....I don't know if it has been fixed but it used to be in a two player game if one side surrendered early (by pressing the surrender button) he was mistakenly given points for VH's that he controled. I once lost a DV in 2 turns when the Luftwaffe routed my force. (deployed moved 1 time, next turn Luftwaffe came and poof battle was over) ------------------ I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

Spike -> (3/2/2001 12:35:00 PM)
Sounds good.. I did take quite a bit of damage so it might have decided even if I did get the VH's I'd have lost by alot. I might load up my savegame sometime and run through it again (saved it like 3 turns before the end), check out the scores, etc. I'm planning on moving on though, can't let one loss stop me. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Thanks for the replies! (and can't wait to see v5.0)

Silvarius -> (3/2/2001 2:14:00 PM)
Hello, I think the problem is due to the ability for the AI to force human to surrender. I know that this topic was already discussed some time ago, but I really think that feature is not a good one. Historically, there are plenty of stories of objectives taken back and forth several times before the issue of the combat was clear. I think, for example, of a village that was taken back and forth 17 times in one day in the 1940 French campaign. Counterattacks are precisely designed for those types of situations. Then, on a gaming level, I also think that it is not a good feature. It reduces the scope of tactical solutions at our disposal. If we want to design a plan that makes the opponents take all the objectives then to counterattack and taking them back before the battle is over, why would that be forbidden ? If the human want to surrender, he has the "surrender" button. Otherwise, let him decide for himself. If that feature really must be kept, then a on/off toggle should be implemented at least. My pleasure was spoiled (or some of it at least) in several battles because of this forced surrendering, and I just wanted to make my opinion known. Thank you for your attention. Silvarius.

Silvarius -> (3/2/2001 2:15:00 PM)
Hello, I think the problem is due to the ability for the AI to force human to surrender. I know that this topic was already discussed some time ago, but I really think that feature is not a good one. Historically, there are plenty of stories of objectives taken back and forth several times before the issue of the combat was clear. I think, for example, of a village that was taken back and forth 17 times in one day in the 1940 French campaign. Counterattacks are precisely designed for those types of situations. Then, on a gaming level, I also think that it is not a good feature. It reduces the scope of tactical solutions at our disposal. If we want to design a plan that makes the opponents take all the objectives then to counterattack and taking them back before the battle is over, why would that be forbidden ? If the human want to surrender, he has the "surrender" button. Otherwise, let him decide for himself. If that feature really must be kept, then a on/off toggle should be implemented at least. My pleasure was spoiled (or some of it at least) in several battles because of this forced surrendering, and I just wanted to make my opinion known. Thank you for your attention. Silvarius.

KTT -> (3/2/2001 4:31:00 PM)
This premature end of a battle can be really annoying sometimes. I've lost many good victories when enemy's morale has been broken before I've got the last victory hex. It's not a problem in single battles, because I know I won. But in campaigns your superiors are not going to be happy...

Charles22 -> (3/2/2001 9:33:00 PM)
Knowing the AI as I do, I can venture a guess. You said there were pillboxes you hadn't found. Well, consdierign what the others have said I would like to add something that's "just a hunch". Surely taking losses and not gaining any victory hexes plays a large role, but I would also suggest that if a very large portion of you force hadn't progressed within a certain radius of those hexes, that this may had affected it's thinking that you could not win the day. What I'm trying to say, is that even though there were a great many turns left, if you overall force didn't progress much it might've just multiplied that result and considered you short, though if that were possible I would guess it to be very secondary to your losses. It might also have something to do with "what" you lost. To exaggerate my point, if half your army was wiped out and the survivors were all recon, while the destroyed were main battle tanks, you wouldn't look too good either, even if you weren't routed. I'm just imagining here folks, but maybe there's something to it.

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