IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (Full Version)

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Erik Rutins -> IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:18:20 PM)

Hi everyone,

While you are waiting, please read the following if you are interested in immediately playing NetPlay when you purchase WIF.

We've been focusing on NetPlay all year to make sure it's good to go. Many tests have been done and games played, which allowed us to find and fix many, many issues along the way. Leading up to the Essen early access release, we thought we were good to go. The focus of development time has been on making sure any NetPlay bugs are addressed quickly and that NetPlay is as stable as possible. With a release that supports Solitaire, Hotseat and NetPlay this is obviously critical.

This morning some new NetPlay issues were brought to my attention. Some of these are new bugs affecting areas that were previously tested and found working, others are bugs we hadn't found yet thanks to the remarkable combination of options, scenarios and player actions that WIF contains. We had a discussion this morning to decide what to do, which really comes down to two decisions - push back the release or release on time.

The main issue with pushing back the release is that we don't have any other release windows available this year, so we would either have to push another game back to 2014 or release WIF in January. Neither of those are good options. The amount of preparation that has gone into this release on the warehouse and store side is such that even hitting the reset button once would mean a 2-3 week delay before we were all set for another release attempt. So we've decided to push forward but to fully inform our customers that we are shipping with some known NetPlay issues.

These issues will be our #1 priority and we expect to have an update available by the end of next week that resolves most or all of them. We're extremely confident in the solitaire/hotseat play and the NetPlay issues are not structural but rather related to rule/action/option cases during gameplay. We do not expect all customers to encounter these issues. We will address the known issues ASAP and any others as they come up. We're committed to prompt post-release support for WIF now and for years into the future.

WIF will also continue to improve through the post-release updates with new options, new features, up to 6 players for multiplayer and eventually AI, but our immediate priority will be addressing these recent NetPlay issues and making sure the NetPlay support works fully as intended.

I apologize for this late breaking news - it was not our intention to ship with any significant issues and with everything else ready for the release, this is a difficult decision, but we feel that with these issues coming to light just before release, going ahead with the release and full disclosure and full support is the best way to go. It's time to finally get this into your hands, but we want to share this late news before you make your purchase decision.

Regards,

- Erik



Mynok -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:20:52 PM)


Right decision IMO. We don't wanna wait anymore. :)



Tjalfe -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:21:10 PM)

You made the right call!

Cheers



Erik Rutins -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:21:18 PM)

FYI, I've also updated the product/store page with a link to this announcement.



Bfgpaladin -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:21:45 PM)

Ok.....thanks for the information but will the product/purchase information on WIF be updated with this? Some people may not read the forum a head of time.



Bfgpaladin -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:23:03 PM)

Ahh good. Your fast Erik lol.



Irish Guards -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:28:24 PM)

Sir .. any specific's ... as to what exactly are the issues ...????
[&:]
IDG



WarHunter -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 5:38:07 PM)

Thanks for the head's up about NetPlay.

Gives me more time to come up with an ACME plan for mounting and setting up the 21' by 9' Map. [>:]



Titan -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 6:15:04 PM)

Good call, Rather know about some issues and still have the option to take it....those that want it perfect have the option to wait. We all win.



Greyshaft -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/7/2013 6:32:18 PM)

Death and Taxes and glitches with software.
They are all part of life grasshopper so accept them whenever they appear.
Save your anger for the things that really matter.
[sm=love0028.gif]



Omnius -> Learning Curve Time (11/7/2013 8:04:36 PM)

Best to release the game now and we can wait for Netplay to work. Considering the steep learning curve for WiF, even for experienced board game players, I think the time can be well spent learning the game and computerized game system. Then when it works on Netplay players will be more experienced and should have a more enjoyable net gaming experience.

Omnius



rickier65 -> RE: Learning Curve Time (11/7/2013 9:09:02 PM)

Sounds like the right decision to me. Those that have concerns can always wait for patch, but this way those that "want it now" can charge ahead.

Rick



sillyflower -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/12/2013 2:53:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

While you are waiting, please read the following if you are interested in immediately playing NetPlay when you purchase WIF.




Possibly Silly qu but what is Netplay and does it allow more than 1 player per side?



Neilster -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/12/2013 3:03:22 PM)

At the moment you can play another person on the net in real time. That's NetPlay. Later this will be increased to up to 6 people and there will be PBEM (play by email) and a computer opponent too.

Cheers, Neilster



sillyflower -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/12/2013 10:41:37 PM)

hmmm
That'll teach me to buy before enquiring as netplay is no real use to me.

Any idea of a date for PBEM? That looked pretty scary too from Shannon's forms.

GL with trying to get an AI that is worth playing without it having to resort to spamming endless units.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/13/2013 12:40:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

hmmm
That'll teach me to buy before enquiring as netplay is no real use to me.

Any idea of a date for PBEM? That looked pretty scary too from Shannon's forms.

GL with trying to get an AI that is worth playing without it having to resort to spamming endless units.

No time estimates on any of the additional features/capabilities.

I will continue to post monthly reports around the first of each month (there is a thread with that name) to keep the community informed on what I accomplish each month. I'll try to add some details on what I expect to work on in the following month.



keyser soze -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/13/2013 8:50:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

No time estimates on any of the additional features/capabilities.

I will continue to post monthly reports around the first of each month (there is a thread with that name) to keep the community informed on what I accomplish each month. I'll try to add some details on what I expect to work on in the following month.


Never have played WIF before but game looks like THE WWII game and I would like to play it but I will not buy a game until PBEM option is available because it is, to my opinion, THE option for play this kind of game.
NetPlay in real time is ridiculous idea, to my opinion, so you should be quick as possible with PBEM implementation.

P.S.There is a great option called PBEM++ option from Slitherine where you are playing your turn whenever you want on official dedicated server so every known PBEM cheats are avoided. Hope you will have something similar controls to prevent cheating.



Erik Rutins -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/13/2013 12:32:06 PM)

Hi Keyzer Soze,

NetPlay uses a similar dedicated server with an in-game forum and lobby. You can also save the game and continue it at a later date. The server automatically does the network routing, so there's no technical knowledge needed to play - not even your IP address and no router/firewall configuration. It is not PBEM but it's a better way to play WIF the way it's structured. When PBEM is implemented, it will include PBEM++ as well.

Regards,

- Erik



keyser soze -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/13/2013 1:38:22 PM)

Hi Erik
Thanks for quick answer. As I have said, I’ve never played WIF so you are probably right but still you must have one thing in mind – players for this kind of game are usually older people and they usually don’t have time to seat and play many hours continuously. Also it is very hard for this people to know exact time when they will be available for play and how long. For example, I am one of this older people [:)] and it is much more suitable for me to have option to play when I want (and can) and with intermissions. That why PBEM is the best solution, to my opinion.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: IMPORTANT: NetPlay and the WIF Release (11/13/2013 8:11:12 PM)

(bump)



Omnius -> Netplay Better than PBEM (11/16/2013 2:23:23 PM)

I like the concept of Netplay where we can play the game in real time with another gamer. It will be really nice when we can have up to 6 people playing one game, then again getting 6 people to be able to play online at the same time can be tough for scheduling.

I like the Netplay concept far better than playing PBEM. I gave up on PBEM play because it's just too easy to cheat by saving and doing reruns of important dice rolls.

Omnius



Zorachus99 -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (11/16/2013 2:55:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

I like the concept of Netplay where we can play the game in real time with another gamer. It will be really nice when we can have up to 6 people playing one game, then again getting 6 people to be able to play online at the same time can be tough for scheduling.

I like the Netplay concept far better than playing PBEM. I gave up on PBEM play because it's just too easy to cheat by saving and doing reruns of important dice rolls.

Omnius


Four is very reasonable however!

It is great to play this game with opponents and someone to plot with.

Brings the best out in your play.



abulbulian -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 4:29:00 PM)

BWheatley and I have been playing a lot of MWiF Netplay over the past week, or as much as BWheatley's wife will let him [:(]. We both understand the complexity involved in a game like this, however, there's still a lot of frustration when we run across bugs which force us to either restart save (crash), skip a step (i.e. certain bombing missions), or find bizarre workaround to get game to go forward. Here's are some of the issues we've experience so far. Believe documented on forum, but Bwheatley and I would be happy to elaborate on any of them.

Overrunning ships in port - crash
Resolving bombing missions (w/o escort) - crash
Bessarabia claim (allow or disallow) - no effect
Neutrality Pact Screen (German marker placement) - window frozen
partisans - placement on enemy air cause crash after air lost
shatter result taken - defender not removed
non-phasing play can make attacks with phasing units (just trust opponent [:-])

These along with some other mysterious and non-reproducible crashes have made it somewhat painful to get through first turn. Ok, not through it yet. Still need to do production. The really odd thing given all these issues is that I still want to play on. Maybe that's because I'm also a board gamer and enjoy the global strategy war games. Was a play tester for 'A World At War' (board game) and interested to see the how MWiF plays out.

Erik, really hope that the NetPlay issues that still exist are fixed with prompt extreme prejudice. Believe that they will. BWheatley and I are happy to help expedite the process if possible.

My only suggestion at this point would be to see a little more feedback in the Tech Support forum related to what bugs are validated and are going to be fixed. That feedback could help facilitate more documentation, if for say one of the bugs BWheatley and I submitted was not taken seriously. [:(]

Disclaimer: in my posts have had some bouts with negativity due to NetPlay frustrations, but excited for MWiF to be successful and continue to improve



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 4:49:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

BWheatley and I have been playing a lot of MWiF Netplay over the past week, or as much as BWheatley's wife will let him [:(]. We both understand the complexity involved in a game like this, however, there's still a lot of frustration when we run across bugs which force us to either restart save (crash), skip a step (i.e. certain bombing missions), or find bizarre workaround to get game to go forward. Here's are some of the issues we've experience so far. Believe documented on forum, but Bwheatley and I would be happy to elaborate on any of them.

Overrunning ships in port - crash
Resolving bombing missions (w/o escort) - crash
Bessarabia claim (allow or disallow) - no effect
Neutrality Pact Screen (German marker placement) - window frozen
partisans - placement on enemy air cause crash after air lost
shatter result taken - defender not removed
non-phasing play can make attacks with phasing units (just trust opponent [:-])

These along with some other mysterious and non-reproducible crashes have made it somewhat painful to get through first turn. Ok, not through it yet. Still need to do production. The really odd thing given all these issues is that I still want to play on. Maybe that's because I'm also a board gamer and enjoy the global strategy war games. Was a play tester for 'A World At War' (board game) and interested to see the how MWiF plays out.

Erik, really hope that the NetPlay issues that still exist are fixed with prompt extreme prejudice. Believe that they will. BWheatley and I are happy to help expedite the process if possible.

My only suggestion at this point would be to see a little more feedback in the Tech Support forum related to what bugs are validated and are going to be fixed. That feedback could help facilitate more documentation, if for say one of the bugs BWheatley and I submitted was not taken seriously. [:(]

Disclaimer: in my posts have had some bouts with negativity due to NetPlay frustrations, but excited for MWiF to be successful and continue to improve

I've fixed 2 of these NetPlay bugs in the past week: shatter and enemy controlling attacks. I also fixed a major problem with DOW on minors. I've been working on the NetPlay bugs with overruns generating a naval interception and naval combat in general.

It takes me time to respond to individual posts about bugs. That's because to say anything intelligent I need to first understand the problem (which typically requires gathering more information) and then try to reproduce it myself. Only then can I discuss it without simply guessing as to the cause and whether I can fix it. Most of my replies without doing my homework first would be along the lines of 'Interesting', which doesn't do anyone any good.

My progress through emailed reports has been substantial. I've cleared 92% of those in the first 10 days and 93% of those in the next week. But I still have two more weeks to work my way through, where I've got 25% and 35% remaining to be investigated.

Over the past week Paul has created and maintained a spreadsheet of the problems reported in Tech Support - which has been a big help. I asked for and he gave me his list of the top NetPlay problems. I had my own list and I merged the two. We'll weave your list into that mix.

The NetPlay bugs are not related to the processing of the sequence of play, but rather to the information flows between the two computers so both of them 'know' what has happened on the other computer. There are 4 information queues (buffering, etc.) which the program maintains on both computers and those appear to be bug free - since before the game was released. The weird little stuff (e.g., claims, digressions, neutrality pacts) requires special handling in some cases. In many other cases, it executes without any extra code being necessary expressly for NetPlay.

I work on MWIF every day. Most of the massive waves of communications I received after the initial release have abated and I'm getting more "real work" done these days.

Please install each new update - there will be at least one a week for the next couple of weeks - and provide us with feedback on bugs you encounter.



abulbulian -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 5:05:16 PM)

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?



AxelNL -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 5:10:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?


Perhaps you should apply to be a betatester (if those positions are still open). Looks like you can add quite some value, and we would be able to discuss a bit more freely with you.



Sabre21 -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 5:43:40 PM)

Both abulbulian and bwheatly were on the WitE beta team and work well as testers and know quite well how to chase down bugs. There are several of us that have tested at one time or another and would like to see this game be as successful as possible. We don't need to be official testers, just ensure we put down as specific data as possible with a savegame attached to your post with step by step instructions on how to duplicate the problem. Remember with netplay, they probably need the same savegames from both players.

Steve has a daunting task, so the more explicit the info, the better for him and his test team.



abulbulian -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 6:37:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Both abulbulian and bwheatly were on the WitE beta team and work well as testers and know quite well how to chase down bugs. There are several of us that have tested at one time or another and would like to see this game be as successful as possible. We don't need to be official testers, just ensure we put down as specific data as possible with a savegame attached to your post with step by step instructions on how to duplicate the problem. Remember with netplay, they probably need the same savegames from both players.

Steve has a daunting task, so the more explicit the info, the better for him and his test team.


Thanks Sabre
Yes, Bill and I don't do it for accolades or free stuff. We have always paid full price for games we've tested and do it to support the small community of gamers that want to see computer war games flourish.

Given we're not in the complete loop as MWiF beta-testers, communication will be very important. Which means Bill and I will do our best to document the issues we find with screen-shots and saved games. My guess is Shannon and/or Erik(?) will get back to us if anything else is needed to address the issue.

If a game of this magnitude could get this far with the small resources (consider man hrs for games like CoD), I believe the rest should be downhill. [8D]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 7:05:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

I do so dislike making predictions about releases.[;)] My track record on that score is very sad.[:(]



abulbulian -> RE: Netplay Better than PBEM (12/9/2013 7:33:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thanks Shannon
I do understand that the process of fixing a bug requires steps and can take a while depending on the blocks in the process. BWheatley and I will continue to provide you with whatever documentation that might be helpful. Nobody wants to rush a fix that could cause some sort of regression. Has there been a date set for release of 1.06? The fixes in that patch already set?

I do so dislike making predictions about releases.[;)] My track record on that score is very sad.[:(]


understood



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