RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (Full Version)

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76mm -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 2:18:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
Guess we will have to agree to disagree.


That's ok, I have no problem with that, it sometimes happens among reasonable people.

However, it would be helpful to understand what we're disagreeing about...are you saying that the paper manuals are in fact necessary for playing the game?



jeffk3510 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 2:33:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
Guess we will have to agree to disagree.


That's ok, I have no problem with that, it sometimes happens among reasonable people.

However, it would be helpful to understand what we're disagreeing about...are you saying that the paper manuals are in fact necessary for playing the game?


Excellent response.

I am saying that in it's current state (package), it is being offered with the manuals and not a stand alone DD. Right now, it isn't ala carte (spelling) so to speak. It is offered as physical, with hard manuals, and an option to purchase maps. A DD is available immediately after purchase. This option is reason for people being discouraged from buying the game right now, because they have substantial costs associated with buying the game and receiving their manuals. If it were just a DD it would be appx $100 US Dollars...we all understand this, and get it.

There isn't a stand alone DD only, no manual, no map option right now.

That is why I said that is like saying I want a car on lot x, just the car..no wheels nothing. What is available is what is available.

I am sure at some point there will be a stand alone DD. Right now, folks want the game so bad, that they will fork over the cash for things they don't really need... Like I did haha. Matrix knows this.

I mean honestly, where the hell am I gunna put a 9x21 foot game board when we can't even keep monopoly in our sun room?

No hard feelings.. I am just saying..all said and done.. I am sure a stand alone DD is their plan.. right now, people are forking over the cash for the game, and unfortunately they have to pay absurd shipping (out of Matrix control) to receive the manuals in their home country.



76mm -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 4:54:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510
No hard feelings.. I am just saying..all said and done.. I am sure a stand alone DD is their plan.. right now, people are forking over the cash for the game, and unfortunately they have to pay absurd shipping (out of Matrix control) to receive the manuals in their home country.


[sm=00000436.gif] Sure we should all recognize that it is what it is, but it drives me more than a little batty when people start prattling about how no one can play this game without paper manuals...
(although I understand if some people prefer to play that way).



Joseignacio -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 10:31:46 AM)

Guys, I think this comes from an agreement from Matrix and ADG I read in some thread around here maybe...

... and if that was true (and it seems very probable for me), this may come because ADG and Matrix signed a contract that the game wouldn't sell for a price that was under the price of the table game, so that it wouldn't affect the possible sales of the latter.

For me, it's the only "logic " for luxury paper manuals in addition to the normal PDFs, the post cost plus the average taxation would make the game have a similar price to ADG table game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the books were valuated not separately but with the price of all the game so that the cost at the customs will be higher (not believable the average tax of 30$ or € expected for only the books, more probable for the 80 € of the game).

Any explanation makes me think this was an idiot system for something that should be volunteer, like the maps. But if it is like that, I agree it woudl have been wiser and more justified to pay 110 or 120 € to Matrix and Steve than to the Post office and the Tax office...



Erik Rutins -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 5:16:47 PM)

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik



danimaning2 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 6:09:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik



[:'(][:'(][:'(]



CheerfullyInsane -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 6:17:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik



Thank you for that.
While changes may or may not be forthcoming, it's nice to know that somebody is at least listening.
(outside the NSA, that is [:D])



JiminyJickers -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 7:09:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik



Thanks, for at least discussing it. I'm hoping for a positive outcome, which will make me fork over some cash.



goulash -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 7:25:14 PM)

Being impulsive, I did not really want the manuals and no doubt would have definitely gone for a DD option if there was one.

That said, to be honest, I am not seething about the issue and now kind of look forward to the books. I seriously believe that I probably would have paid the same money for the game itself anyway.

Now if there is some way for Matrix to reach a solution allowing players to bypass the shipping etc, it is obvious that those of us that have only paid full whack because it was the only way to get the game on our drives fast will be slightly [:-]

Of course, there will no doubt be ways for Matrix to make it up to those of us whom have bit into their wallets quickly ???? I don't mean something that actually cost money here as I would be happy with a signed letter by the game designer to box up with the hardcopy in case I just want to store it all for a later date ebay sale. I am sure a compromise could made made that keeps everyone happy including the devs, original game owners and the community.



Dorb -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 11:10:22 PM)

Stay the course Erik. Build it and they will come. There is not another game like this anywhere.



radic202 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/12/2013 11:30:13 PM)


I am so impressed with the game so far, currently sharing the goods of it on the IGN Facebook page that I belong too.

And thanks Erik, even though I caused a rant, and still managed to get the game, I still feel my argument was right about the "excessive" shipping charges that I was faced with. Glad to see you guys/gals on the ball with our comments/issues.



76mm -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/13/2013 2:36:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: goulash
Now if there is some way for Matrix to reach a solution allowing players to bypass the shipping etc, it is obvious that those of us that have only paid full whack because it was the only way to get the game on our drives fast will be slightly [:-]


Let's not complicate the decision process. As far as I'm concerned anyone that bought with the hard copy books did so with full knowledge that there might be a D/D version later, so the let the chips fall where they may.

I'd much rather get an assurance from Matrix that there will be no such silliness in the future!



aspqrz02 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/13/2013 3:51:54 AM)

Exactly. I probably would have bought the physical edition ANYWAY, as the ultimate cost, including exorbitant shipping to Oz, turned out to be within the A$150-160 range I'd set as my limit for the game alone. However, if it HAD been that amount with another $45 shipping on top, I probably wouldn't have bought it ... at all ... If Physical was the only option.

As it stands, I have no gripe as a result of any potential change.

Phil



danimaning2 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/13/2013 4:52:47 PM)

Any news Erik?



Boschy -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/14/2013 1:48:49 AM)

It seems MWiF isn't the only thing suffering this problem ... I recently won a $50 voucher during a Facebook competition by a big name fishing gear supplier. When I went to the online store and added something to my cart they wanted $135 in postage and handling to Australia (from the US). I cancelled the order.

On the topic at hand - I've waited 10 years for MWiF, I can wait longer. I already have about 5 copies of the rules (which is strange as I only have 1 boxed) and don't need nor want pretty hard cover versions. If a pure download version doesn't come along, then I guess I won't be getting back in to WiF. That's my decision and I don't begrudge Matrix doing things the way they want - I just won't partake in it if it doesn't suit my needs.



Numdydar -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/14/2013 3:13:01 AM)

A very reasonable and well thought out decision. While you have every right to whine and cry like the OP, I am so glad you did not [:)]



JiminyJickers -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/14/2013 6:37:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We have read all the comments on this. We are listening and we'll be discussing this tomorrow. I can't promise that any changes will be possible, but I don't want you to feel that we are ignoring you and that you are unheard.

Regards,

- Erik



Hi Erik,

Did any decision come out of this? I'm hoping you guys have changed your minds.

Cheers,
JiminyJickers



76mm -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/14/2013 6:42:27 PM)

what's the saying? I think it is that in some cases "silence speaks volumes" (hahaha). I'm sure Erik would tell us if there was any news.



JiminyJickers -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/14/2013 6:45:55 PM)

Yeah, I guess you are right.[:(]



wodin -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/14/2013 11:02:22 PM)

I wouldn't give up hope just yet..sometimes Slitherine like to take their time;)



danimaning2 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/14/2013 11:40:56 PM)

quote:

I wouldn't give up hope just yet..sometimes Slitherine like to take their time;)


I hope then, because this is the difference for me between buy the game or not to buy.



JiminyJickers -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/15/2013 11:51:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I wouldn't give up hope just yet..sometimes Slitherine like to take their time;)


I'm not so sure anymore. I used to be a big fan and defender of Matrix Games, but this recent business with World in Flames has left a very foul taste in my mouth. I no longer have faith in this company.

I understand that some customers feels like the printed manuals are the best thing about this game and is essential for it, but it disappoints me that some of them feel like the people who don't feel the same, shouldn't be allowed to play the game.

I honestly hope Matrix/Slitherine can turn around and restore my faith, but I'm not so sure anymore. This decision to actively exclude customers who are begging to play Word in Flames without having to buy paper manuals with such high shipping costs is very sad for me to see.

People are mentioning that you should wait until the European factory for shipping opens. Doesn't help if you need to ship it to New Zealand. Didn't have this problem with any other game I bought from here. Always had the option to buy digital only.

I will continue to enjoy the games I have bought from here and will be active in those forums, but I'm not sure about the future games. Please Matrix/Slitherine, change your mind.

Thanks for reading my views.




paulderynck -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/16/2013 12:02:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers
I understand that some customers feels like the printed manuals are the best thing about this game and is essential for it, but it disappoints me that some of them feel like the people who don't feel the same, shouldn't be allowed to play the game.

IMO yes, they absolutely should be allowed to play the game.

Of course paying for shipping is their own individual decision.




radic202 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/16/2013 12:05:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I wouldn't give up hope just yet..sometimes Slitherine like to take their time;)


I'm not so sure anymore. I used to be a big fan and defender of Matrix Games, but this recent business with World in Flames has left a very foul taste in my mouth. I no longer have faith in this company.

I understand that some customers feels like the printed manuals are the best thing about this game and is essential for it, but it disappoints me that some of them feel like the people who don't feel the same, shouldn't be allowed to play the game.

I honestly hope Matrix/Slitherine can turn around and restore my faith, but I'm not so sure anymore. This decision to actively exclude customers who are begging to play Word in Flames without having to buy paper manuals with such high shipping costs is very sad for me to see.

People are mentioning that you should wait until the European factory for shipping opens. Doesn't help if you need to ship it to New Zealand. Didn't have this problem with any other game I bought from here. Always had the option to buy digital only.

I will continue to enjoy the games I have bought from here and will be active in those forums, but I'm not sure about the future games. Please Matrix/Slitherine, change your mind.

Thanks for reading my views.





I am on your side here JiminyJickers with the bolded sentences of your quote. Even though I have the game now and I am enjoying it, I really feel that I should not have had to go through what I did to play the game. Remember I still need to get the manuals shipped to me from my buddy's house in Florida to Canada, which is another step I needlessly had to make in order to play the game.

On your last bolded sentence, I have 2 games I wish to purchase here but I am holding off just because of the crap I had to go through to spend MY Money here and because I fell I need to "hunger strike" for all those who were and are in the same boat as me and you in the hope that Matrix/Slitherine will pull through in the end.



CheerfullyInsane -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/16/2013 2:04:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I wouldn't give up hope just yet..sometimes Slitherine like to take their time;)

+1

Guys, Erik said they'd discuss it.
Assuming everyone is right, and there's some sort of deal struck with ADG re. distribution, someone will have to talk to them as well.
Throw a handful of lawyers into the mix, and these things will take some time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still just as puzzled about the business-model as I was before.
And should the DD option turn out not to be possible, I guess I'll have to go without WiF.
Then again, it's not the end of the world.
Plenty of quality gaming to be had out there. [:)]



msvknight -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/16/2013 2:47:03 AM)

Maybe Slitherine is a major holder of Fed Express shares?...



Gizuria -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/16/2013 3:02:42 AM)

It's a little disturbing that some players want to see this policy of shipping deluxe hard-bound manuals to other Matrix titles as per this post.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3469225

I'm very happy for folks who want/need these books to have the option to buy them but I'd never have bought WitE, Command Ops, or any of the other Matrix titles I've picked up in the last year or so if I'd had to buy hard-bound manuals with the download. So please, Matrix. Make this physical copy deal one a one-off.

BTW, I live and work in Indonesia. Ship a physical disk with a serial number on it over here and it'll get pirated on its way through the system. I've done you guys a big favour by having the books shipped to an address in the US [:D] And I'll use the money I've saved to pick up another matrix offering. [8D]



danimaning2 -> RE: Want to purchase but almost 40% more for shipping? (11/18/2013 3:46:23 PM)

Erik said the day 11/12 that he would say an answer.

Its any decidion for that, or only silence?



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