Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat

Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (Full Version)

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ezhik1 -> Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 8:33:56 AM)
Hi all, I am playing the full 41-45 campaign as the Soviets. Has anybody come across the phenomenon whereby the Soviets suffer 50,000 losses (through manpower I believe) even when no combat has taken place during the German turn? 50k every time. While Zhukov used to say to subordinates "dont try to preserve the soldiers, Russian women will make many more", I am trying to follow somewhat more humane methods... Thanks guys!

Flaviusx -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 8:57:27 AM)
Those are attrition losses, and impossible to avoid unless you break contact with the enemy across the entire line. The larger the Red Army is and the more of it is in contact with the enemy, the bigger your attrition losses. Regardless of how many combats took place or even if none at all took place. You might be able to bring those numbers down a bit by thinning out the front line, if you dare. That of course will make it easier for the enemy to attack and can wind up being a false economy. At some point in the game it becomes very difficult for the Red Army to grow at all simply due to attrition offsetting replacements.

Oberst_Klink -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 8:58:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ezhik1 Hi all, I am playing the full 41-45 campaign as the Soviets. Has anybody come across the phenomenon whereby the Soviets suffer 50,000 losses (through manpower I believe) even when no combat has taken place during the German turn? 50k every time. While Zhukov used to say to subordinates "dont try to preserve the soldiers, Russian women will make many more", I am trying to follow somewhat more humane methods... Thanks guys! Attrition, pestilence, NKVD firing squads, accidents, stragglers, AWOL, etc. Klink, Oberst

ezhik1 -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 7:00:26 PM)
Thanks guys for your responses. Shouldnt the Germans then be suffering something similiar? I am not seeing that if I open up the losses screen prior to ending my turn. It would be a bit odd if the Soviets had an attrition penalty and the Germans didnt.

Flaviusx -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 7:21:01 PM)
Germans also suffer attrition losses, but they are much smaller due to army size and their superior morale/experience. I think you have to play out a German turn and see the reports on their end to access their attrition losses, they won't show up during the Soviet player's turn and are accounted for only in the total losses. The attrition calculation occurs during your own logistical phase, not the opponent's.

Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 7:31:52 PM)
quote: While Zhukov used to say to subordinates "dont try to preserve the soldiers, Russian women will make many more", I am trying to follow somewhat more humane methods... You have to play the Russians like they used to fight the war. With no regards to human losses. The numbers are just astronomical in 41 but it gets much better once you survive 41 and summer of 42. I'm playing a game that is in 43 now and my only concern is that I don't want the Soviet army to get bigger and bigger. I only build support units and keep my vehicle ratio at 1:1. I have an army of 8.9 mio and a manpower pool of 2 mio. When you reach this point you just grind the Axis down. Your losses are easily replaced while the Axis gets weaker and weaker.

Flaviusx -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 7:40:21 PM)
Bozo, it's a bit more complicated than that and you can easily run the Soviets into a ditch in 1941 if too many of them wind up being pocketed. Not so much because of the raw losses but the outright elimination of units which come back very slowly from the dead pile. And after 1941 pocketing can create an AP crunch for the Sovs as they lose their free replacements from the dead pile. Heavy unit losses can snowball out of control very quickly early on. That's why so much love and care has been devoted towards maximizing the opening turn and leveraging the surprise rules. Knocking out four fronts in a couple of turns is no joke. Now, if you can somehow contrive to avoid the pockets, then what you are saying is true up to a point.

M60A3TTS -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 8:31:05 PM)
I'm curious what a 8.9 mil army looks like with a 1.0 vehicle ratio. I'm around 7.4 mil and a 0.7 truck ratio. To get to 1.0, I'd need almost another 90k trucks.

Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 9:20:57 PM)
It's an infantry army with 12 tank corps and about 10 cavalry corps. All remaining tank brigades are on static. I have 178k vehicles and I need 171k. I build mostly sappers and tank regiments during 42/43. Build some foolish stuff in 41 like 60 RR Repair units [&:] and tons of Ski battalions [&:][&:].

Disgruntled Veteran -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 10:52:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ezhik1 Thanks guys for your responses. Shouldnt the Germans then be suffering something similiar? I am not seeing that if I open up the losses screen prior to ending my turn. It would be a bit odd if the Soviets had an attrition penalty and the Germans didnt. Axis usually suffer between 15k-25k losses by attrition per turn.

M60A3TTS -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/10/2013 11:26:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown It's an infantry army with 12 tank corps and about 10 cavalry corps. All remaining tank brigades are on static. I have 178k vehicles and I need 171k. I build mostly sappers and tank regiments during 42/43. Build some foolish stuff in 41 like 60 RR Repair units [&:] and tons of Ski battalions [&:][&:]. What about your air force. Do you even have one? [;)]

Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: Soviet Manpower Loss Every Turn - Even when no combat (11/11/2013 12:46:43 AM)
quote: What about your air force. Do you even have one? Yes, huge. But I can't destroy the IL-2s fast enough. I'm trying but I just can't keep up with production. [:D]

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