Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (Full Version)

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SeaMonkey -> Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 1:54:01 AM)

I'm a little skeptical of this game due to the large degree of immersion that is required, but there are some obvious intriguing qualities that seem to appeal to my boardgaming itch. Since starting in 67 with AH's D-Day, I've always been drawn to the strategic side of wargaming, especially since the one aspect that always leads to the victorious side is the management and distribution of logistics.

Reading through the posts that deal with the convoy features in MWiF I get the feeling this routine may not be as functional as most players wish. Obviously this parameter is highly important in a nation's ability to do commerce and support its armed forces, just as it is in real life. I guess my question is, how friendly is the UI to setting up this most important characteristic to a any nation's vitality? Is it flexible enough to change when threatened by enemy action? Can the com-net be interdicted in a realistic way and do the isolated forces reap the consequences of being cut off from their logistical base?




Zorachus99 -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 2:10:23 AM)

Yes, yes, and yes.

Unique sub combat, ability to build some shipping outside the UK...




brian brian -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 2:57:02 AM)

As an example, before the fall of France at some point in 1940, the UK can route their convoys to the south of Ireland (using the Bay of Biscay sea zone), which keeps them farther from the German U-Boat bases and makes actual combat 10% less likely. In the summer of 1940 the German U-Boats could well appear in new bases in western France obviously. But the CW can shift their convoys to the north of Ireland (using the Faeroes Gap sea zone), moving them closer to the German bases but farther from the now quite close formerly French bases. The UK can do this during a turn even and is somewhat of a standard move for a good CW player.

There are some similar possibilities in the Med for Italy trying to keep Africa supplied. The Japanese have less options to get their resources back to Japan from SE Asia, as far as routes at least, but their supply routes to bases such as Truk do have a variety of possibilities.

And units that get cut off from supply definitely suffer the consequences. Air units can't fly missions, land units can't attack, several other effects....




ACMW -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 5:48:09 PM)

May be worth clarification: convoys are not for logistics. At least not in the sense you mean. Convoys enable the production of war materiel, not their deployment to theatre nor their sustainment when there. Deployment uses transports, amphibs or, for certain smaller units, warships. Overseas sustainment is via enabled by controlling or contesting sea areas.

However, the key thing for me, and I imagine for you, is that the logistics mechanisms both overseas and on land have a very satisfactory feel.




SeaMonkey -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 6:28:40 PM)

So for an island base to be cut-off, all sea areas bordering would be enemy controlled? Are seazones controlled by all deployed/ in-range naval and air assets as a combined operation? Further, understanding that cut-off units will not be able to engage in normal offensive actions, are their defensive abilities eroded(land units)?




brian brian -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 6:36:20 PM)

Some islands are bordered by more than one sea area - i.e., the sea boundaries run through the island. Other islands are within a single zone. "Controlling" a zone is defined in two different ways. The standard rule is that supply goes through as long as you still have combat forces in the sea zone. An optional rule requires that the sea zone also contain some sort of shipping asset - either merchant shipping, or a Naval Transport counter. With that option (Limited Overseas Supply), you need not have a combat unit present still, just lucky enough that the enemy forces haven't found your supply ships.

Land units that are out of supply can not attack. They can still move, once, but then they become disorganized. Disorganized land units can not move, and disorganized land units have their combat factors reduced on defense. Land units can also become disorganized by enemy air attack, so bombing an enemy land unit that is out of supply can make it much easier to eliminate in land combat, if your bombing mission is successful (depends on dice and the quality of the bomber and terrain).

Out of supply air units can only rebase (if not already disorganize) and can not fly combat missions. Out of supply naval units can leave their port, but are then disorganized and can not do things like initiate a naval search or perform Shore Bombardment.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 6:48:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Some islands are bordered by more than one sea area - i.e., the sea boundaries run through the island. Other islands are within a single zone. "Controlling" a zone is defined in two different ways. The standard rule is that supply goes through as long as you still have combat forces in the sea zone. An optional rule requires that the sea zone also contain some sort of shipping asset - either merchant shipping, or a Naval Transport counter. With that option (Limited Overseas Supply), you need not have a combat unit present still, just lucky enough that the enemy forces haven't found your supply ships.

Land units that are out of supply can not attack. They can still move, once, but then they become disorganized. Disorganized land units can not move, and disorganized land units have their combat factors reduced on defense. Land units can also become disorganized by enemy air attack, so bombing an enemy land unit that is out of supply can make it much easier to eliminate in land combat, if your bombing mission is successful (depends on dice and the quality of the bomber and terrain).

Out of supply air units can only rebase (if not already disorganize) and can not fly combat missions. Out of supply naval units can leave their port, but are then disorganized and can not do things like initiate a naval search or perform Shore Bombardment.

Out of supply naval units (in port) also have their movement points reduced by 1. While beta testing, we found that rule to be confusing/surprising to new players. All units at sea are considered to be in supply.




SeaMonkey -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 8:31:54 PM)

All sounds like logical reprentations of real circumstances. As far as convoy interdiction of resources, I'm assuming all combat ships and aircraft have the ability if within range and the search mechanism is successful?




Ingtar -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 8:36:56 PM)

One of the optional rules, that I found more than optional for me, requires a convoy or transport to trace supply through a sea zone.




SeaMonkey -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 8:53:11 PM)

I would expect that the resource to factory path would need to be connected through adjacent seazones as well as uninterrupted land hexes for the successful culmination of a product.




Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 9:05:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

I would expect that the resource to factory path would need to be connected through adjacent seazones as well as uninterrupted land hexes for the successful culmination of a product.

Yes.

The program is very good, even excellent, at finding rail paths. That's because an infinite amount of resources can move through a hex using a rail link.

For the sea area links, each resource needs its own personal convoy in each sea area. That means each sea area can only convoy as many resources as there are convoys in the sea area. Limited capacity with multiple possible routes makes this a linear programming problem (at least). Experienced players are better at routing convoys in complex games than MWIF's automated routine.




Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Convoys, supply/communication net and resource & production (11/13/2013 9:31:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Some islands are bordered by more than one sea area - i.e., the sea boundaries run through the island. Other islands are within a single zone. "Controlling" a zone is defined in two different ways. The standard rule is that supply goes through as long as you still have combat forces in the sea zone. An optional rule requires that the sea zone also contain some sort of shipping asset - either merchant shipping, or a Naval Transport counter. With that option (Limited Overseas Supply), you need not have a combat unit present still, just lucky enough that the enemy forces haven't found your supply ships.

Land units that are out of supply can not attack. They can still move, once, but then they become disorganized. Disorganized land units can not move, and disorganized land units have their combat factors reduced on defense. Land units can also become disorganized by enemy air attack, so bombing an enemy land unit that is out of supply can make it much easier to eliminate in land combat, if your bombing mission is successful (depends on dice and the quality of the bomber and terrain).

Out of supply air units can only rebase (if not already disorganize) and can not fly combat missions. Out of supply naval units can leave their port, but are then disorganized and can not do things like initiate a naval search or perform Shore Bombardment.




Just making one minor correction. LOS is in addition to, not a replacement of the normal overseas supply rules. If you've got unescorted convoys, and I have a cruiser in the sea zone, you cannot trace supply through there. (At least until you send someone to counter him)




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