WitP:AE 2 (Full Version)

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Rison -> WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 1:46:57 PM)

So where are we are on WitP:AE 2? [:D]

Thanks in advance

Chad




Terminus -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 1:50:47 PM)

No.




Xargun -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 2:54:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No.


You always make me laugh with your explicit answers.





Bullwinkle58 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 4:32:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

No.


You always make me laugh with your explicit answers.




The question might better be where is Matrix/Slitherine on an AE2? I imagine the answer to that is close-held, also explicit, and more than one word long.




tocaff -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 5:34:31 PM)

I'm not getting any younger. Hint, hint.




nashvillen -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 5:38:37 PM)

Don't hold your breath, although a better GUI would be nice.




Feltan -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 6:16:59 PM)

I am not holding my breath.

I just hope they don't take it in an odd direction, or do something stupid. I say that after having visited healthcare.gov over the last three days on behalf of a family member.

My advice: take your time. This version of AE is not growing old.

Regards,
Feltan




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 6:21:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

I'm not getting any younger. Hint, hint.


Tell me about it. [8D]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 6:25:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Don't hold your breath, although a better GUI would be nice.


Not trying to start yet another b-fest, but as I look at their recent mega-offerings I see one modern $100 game with a huge number of fixes in motion, another decade-in-development monster that shipped with no AI and a score of optional features greyed out on the load screen and a statement many would never be finished, and a 4X game shipped in alpha state with a "help us fund this unfinished product" pitch to real-life retail buyers. AE2 has a built in, massive buyer base and could sustain a $150 price point and not break a sweat. They're pretty bad at game publishing if they're not always, every month, talking about doing this project.




witpqs -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 6:52:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Don't hold your breath, although a better GUI would be nice.


Not trying to start yet another b-fest, but as I look at their recent mega-offerings I see one modern $100 game with a huge number of fixes in motion, another decade-in-development monster that shipped with no AI and a score of optional features greyed out on the load screen and a statement many would never be finished, and a 4X game shipped in alpha state with a "help us fund this unfinished product" pitch to real-life retail buyers. AE2 has a built in, massive buyer base and could sustain a $150 price point and not break a sweat. They're pretty bad at game publishing if they're not always, every month, talking about doing this project.

$150 price point? You are nuts!

Sure, some would buy. But many would not.




mike scholl 1 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:02:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

$150 price point? You are nuts!

Sure, some would buy. But many would not.



Actually, if it really corrected all the player's perceived problems with WITP-AE, almost all of us would. The problem is that almost all of us have a different list of "perceived problems". [:D]




House Stark -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:06:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

$150 price point? You are nuts!

Sure, some would buy. But many would not.



Actually, if it really corrected all the player's perceived problems with WITP-AE, almost all of us would. The problem is that almost all of us have a different list of "perceived problems". [:D]

This. AE is a very, very good game. If they improved it significantly in such a way that made most players happy, the fan base would migrate over the course of a couple years. Because while $150 is a lot of money for a game, it would still be a great deal considering the hours that will be spent playing it.




JocMeister -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:20:12 PM)

With the direction Matrix have taken lately I put 10 bucks on that the next AE game will be a Ipad version. [8|]





Rison -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:20:58 PM)

Just to be clear, WitP:AE is great - loving the constant beta patches from Michael.

But, I just wanted to see if the dev's are ready to start sharing details on WitP:AE 2 [:D]




Numdydar -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:29:42 PM)

Just wondering if you could share a link or anything where this is even being considered? My understanding is that other than Micheal's work, no further development on AE is being done at all.

Which makes sense since Gary et el are busy tring to get WitW 43-45 out the door and then WitE 2.0. So unless someone else took over Gray's work, which is always possible, but I would doubt, I cannot see how a new version of AE is even being thought about, much less actively worked on behind the scenes.




Xargun -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:37:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

$150 price point? You are nuts!

Sure, some would buy. But many would not.


Actually, if it really corrected all the player's perceived problems with WITP-AE, almost all of us would. The problem is that almost all of us have a different list of "perceived problems". [:D]


Given enough heads up for that price point I bet 60%-80% of the current WitP-AE players would buy it at $150. Maybe not right at release, but within 3-6 months. I know I would. WitP-AE has had more support than some operating systems for bugs and features. Just add up how many hours you spend playing the game, thinking about it, making spreadsheets and plans for your next few moves and I bet at $150 for the game you would still be below $0.01 per hour invested into the game very quick. I know I am way below that amount and I don't play the game hard like some people here do....




Terminus -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:45:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rison

Just to be clear, WitP:AE is great - loving the constant beta patches from Michael.

But, I just wanted to see if the dev's are ready to start sharing details on WitP:AE 2 [:D]


There's no such thing. No dev team. No product.

How's that for details?




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:46:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Don't hold your breath, although a better GUI would be nice.


Not trying to start yet another b-fest, but as I look at their recent mega-offerings I see one modern $100 game with a huge number of fixes in motion, another decade-in-development monster that shipped with no AI and a score of optional features greyed out on the load screen and a statement many would never be finished, and a 4X game shipped in alpha state with a "help us fund this unfinished product" pitch to real-life retail buyers. AE2 has a built in, massive buyer base and could sustain a $150 price point and not break a sweat. They're pretty bad at game publishing if they're not always, every month, talking about doing this project.

$150 price point? You are nuts!

Sure, some would buy. But many would not.


OK, for you meester, $139.99! Or, a coat and two paira plants![:)]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 7:48:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rison

Just to be clear, WitP:AE is great - loving the constant beta patches from Michael.

But, I just wanted to see if the dev's are ready to start sharing details on WitP:AE 2 [:D]


There's no such thing. No dev team. No product.

How's that for details?


I didn't know you went to all the management meetings at Matrix. The air fares must be killer.




Terminus -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 8:03:44 PM)

Ooh, snarky![8|]

First, it's Sliterine now, not Matrix.

Second, there's only one active team that'd be able to take on a project of that magnitude, and they're working on something else.

Thirdly, no AE 2.




mind_messing -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 8:40:27 PM)

I'm glad it's just not me that disaproves of Matrix and it's publishing strategy.

If effort went in to polishing up games, making them look appealing and providing good support, then there would be increased interest in the games. That intrest would spark more sales, and in turn start a nice circle of lower prices and increasing sales.

Instead we have half-baked releases or early beta products. Worse still, we pay exceptional prices through a single seller, so there is zero chance of getting a better deal online. The mistakes of the publisher and developers are paid for by the consumers.

What we end up with is paying more for a game with a limited budget and development team than we would for a triple A title that threw in a couple million for publicity on to the bottom line.

It's akin to the problem Paradox Interactive had a few years back. Buggy, unfinished games were the norm. Paradox managed to reform itself, make it's games work and look appealing. Now they enjoy great commercial sucess (Crusader Kings 2 is a fairly niche game with great sales success, I'm sure there are others). Most of Matrix's games are niche titles, but not that niche!

Matrix, on the other hand, just seems to carry on as backwards as it is, content that it's customers will fork out for over-priced early-alpha products.




Yaab -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 9:07:34 PM)

I daresay we get pretty good strategic games these day in terms of OOBs, rules, equipment databases and nice graphics, but what is sorely lacking is a solid AI.




witpqs -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 9:19:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Don't hold your breath, although a better GUI would be nice.


Not trying to start yet another b-fest, but as I look at their recent mega-offerings I see one modern $100 game with a huge number of fixes in motion, another decade-in-development monster that shipped with no AI and a score of optional features greyed out on the load screen and a statement many would never be finished, and a 4X game shipped in alpha state with a "help us fund this unfinished product" pitch to real-life retail buyers. AE2 has a built in, massive buyer base and could sustain a $150 price point and not break a sweat. They're pretty bad at game publishing if they're not always, every month, talking about doing this project.

$150 price point? You are nuts!

Sure, some would buy. But many would not.


OK, for you meester, $139.99! Or, a coat and two paira plants![:)]

I'll give you &80, three chickens, and a goat!




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 10:53:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Ooh, snarky![8|]

First, it's Sliterine now, not Matrix.

Second, there's only one active team that'd be able to take on a project of that magnitude, and they're working on something else.

Thirdly, no AE 2.


There are many active teams working in consumer PC games. Who knows who might be available? I don't. I doubt you do either.

I know it's Slitherine, however it's spelled. If anything they ought to have more resources and contacts than Matrix, world-wide.

I know you had a piece of AE development many years ago now. That doesn't mean you know what the parent company is doing. Unless you offer some proof you do. Married to a daughter perhaps?




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 10:56:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Don't hold your breath, although a better GUI would be nice.


Not trying to start yet another b-fest, but as I look at their recent mega-offerings I see one modern $100 game with a huge number of fixes in motion, another decade-in-development monster that shipped with no AI and a score of optional features greyed out on the load screen and a statement many would never be finished, and a 4X game shipped in alpha state with a "help us fund this unfinished product" pitch to real-life retail buyers. AE2 has a built in, massive buyer base and could sustain a $150 price point and not break a sweat. They're pretty bad at game publishing if they're not always, every month, talking about doing this project.

$150 price point? You are nuts!

Sure, some would buy. But many would not.


OK, for you meester, $139.99! Or, a coat and two paira plants![:)]

I'll give you &80, three chickens, and a goat!


What's "&80"? [:)] Is that a non-ASCI-code way for saying "Euro"?

The "coat and two paira plants" is from a classic Marx Brothers routine in one of the movies. I was just feeling amused.




wdolson -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 11:24:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Not trying to start yet another b-fest, but as I look at their recent mega-offerings I see one modern $100 game with a huge number of fixes in motion, another decade-in-development monster that shipped with no AI and a score of optional features greyed out on the load screen and a statement many would never be finished, and a 4X game shipped in alpha state with a "help us fund this unfinished product" pitch to real-life retail buyers. AE2 has a built in, massive buyer base and could sustain a $150 price point and not break a sweat. They're pretty bad at game publishing if they're not always, every month, talking about doing this project.


For a wargame, the fan base is very large for the WitP family. For a game, no wargame has a large market. Releases of video games like Grand Theft Auto and the other games you see on TV ads can sell more than 1 million copies in a few months after release. The best selling wargames (true wargames, not abstractions like Risk) have sold about 10,000 copies over their entire lifetime. Some mega hits like ASL sold maybe a little better than that, but probably less than 100,000 copies.

This is a niche market Slitherine/Matrix do a lot to dominate it like Avalon Hill did back in the days of board games. But it's still a niche.

When Avalon Hill sold out to Hasbro i read a very good analysis of the gaming market. Everyone who was an insider in the industry was scratching their head why Hasbro would be interested. Hasbro's worst seller game sold more in a year than Avalon Hill's best selling games did over their entire lifetime. In the end it was concluded that Hasbro had intentions of making multi-player online versions of some of AH's multi-player games like Diplomacy, but that never really happened. In the end it just prevented anyone else from doing it.

Hasbro buying AH though was akin to McDonalds expanding into Mexican food by buying out a tiny chain of Mexican taquarias as their new division.

I'm sure Matrix has made some decent money off of AE. I'm not privy to any of the financials, that is just my guess. It's probably one of the most popular computer wargames in history, but it's down in the noise compared to the big hitters. I doubt the typical fan of the latest style of computer games is going to have the patience to play a game like AE, or even an AE2 with a new engine. This topic does not lend itself to being a real time game. It's a very cerebral game that takes a lot of study.

When the Myers Briggs went around a few years ago, I noted that the majority of people who participated in the thread were INTJ with most of the rest being somewhat close in type. INTJ is the rarest of the 16 types and all the other types I saw were also rare. A group made up of rare types are probably never going to convince the rest of the herd that whatever they are into is interesting.

As an aside the type demographics here are very similar to the type demographics in Mensa which is around 24% INTJ and 16% INTP.

Bill




zuluhour -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 11:41:09 PM)

C'mon guys, video games are where the money is. Instant gratification = American consumers. I believe most teenage boys have no clue where Burma is. I bet if you phrased it right, they would not know what it is, nor would they care. Sad, but even adults I might share a coffee at Starbucks with not only have no clue about where stuff is on a globe but really express no interest either. Maybe when the video game designers start making their fan base wire up their nuts to their play stations will see some more cerebral types migrate over.[:D]




mind_messing -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 11:47:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Not trying to start yet another b-fest, but as I look at their recent mega-offerings I see one modern $100 game with a huge number of fixes in motion, another decade-in-development monster that shipped with no AI and a score of optional features greyed out on the load screen and a statement many would never be finished, and a 4X game shipped in alpha state with a "help us fund this unfinished product" pitch to real-life retail buyers. AE2 has a built in, massive buyer base and could sustain a $150 price point and not break a sweat. They're pretty bad at game publishing if they're not always, every month, talking about doing this project.



I'm sure Matrix has made some decent money off of AE. I'm not privy to any of the financials, that is just my guess. It's probably one of the most popular computer wargames in history, but it's down in the noise compared to the big hitters. I doubt the typical fan of the latest style of computer games is going to have the patience to play a game like AE, or even an AE2 with a new engine. This topic does not lend itself to being a real time game. It's a very cerebral game that takes a lot of study.


I'm not really sure that holds true. Would anyone have guessed that a game recreating feudal Europe would go on to be a great comercial success from a small games company with a long line of producing niche games? Crusader Kings 2 certainly did.

One major problem I see with WitP is the lack of publicity. Buying the game requires a few things:
-The consumer to know about it.
-The consumer to decide that he likes what he see's
-The consumer to be willing to pay for it.

What I don't understand is how Matrix hasn't looked in to Steam as a method of boosting sales. It's a nice big market that's virtually untapped. Sure, the majority of gamers using Steam won't like it, but there will be those that do. It's an increase in sales and a increase in profile to boot, and all for a fraction of what it would cost Matrix to do it on their own.

Sadly it seems that Matrix is inherintly complacent in it's buisness method.




mind_messing -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 11:53:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

C'mon guys, video games are where the money is. Instant gratification = American consumers. I believe most teenage boys have no clue where Burma is. I bet if you phrased it right, they would not know what it is, nor would they care. Sad, but even adults I might share a coffee at Starbucks with not only have no clue about where stuff is on a globe but really express no interest either. Maybe when the video game designers start making their fan base wire up their nuts to their play stations will see some more cerebral types migrate over.[:D]


"If you don't know it exists, how can you possibily find it?" seems to me to be the big problem with WitP and other titles. What profile the game gets seems to be exlusively by word of mouth.




Chickenboy -> RE: WitP:AE 2 (11/21/2013 11:59:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

C'mon guys, video games are where the money is.


No kidding. The most recent iteration of the GTA V franchise sold circa USD $1B in its first day. Call of Duty: Ghosts was right behind it. These are probably three orders of magnitude greater than sales for anything here.

With such astronomically large money will go the developers, the big research and development dollars, the platform support, programmers, etc. etc. It's a market certainty.

I just thank my stars that we have good support on this one game. That means alot to me. Compete with the big video game players for talent, press, play or numbers? Ain't gonna happen.




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