Aliances with minor countries

Aliances with minor countries (Full Version)

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MatJack -> Aliances with minor countries (11/24/2013 9:21:25 PM)
AXIS Instances where it would be best to align with specific minor countries Instances where it would be best to NOT align with specific minor countries ALIES Instances where it would be best to align with specific minor countries Instances where it would be best to NOT align with specific minor countries As an add-on, with the instances given above, where aliances chosen can burn you later on in the game based on side (allied or axis) add your feelings with a caveat. Just trying to see or otherwise measure the thoughts of some board game players with past experiances with regards to aliances and game strategies.

paulderynck -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/24/2013 9:34:03 PM)
You may be assuming any side can align any minor. Not so. Only specific minors can be aligned in specific situations. Some can be aligned by either side, but again specific situations must apply. This is described in Section 19 of RAC.

MatJack -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/24/2013 9:52:34 PM)
Not assuming any side just asking, if presented with choices, why do you make the choice that you make and why. I'm trying to grasp information where users have reasons for not doing what might be expected actions......meaning since you are given a choice, when do you go against what would seem short term logical and why? Since it's an ask question by the game engine, what I'm asking is more or when do you break what may seem logical thinking?

Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/24/2013 11:26:18 PM)
Generally, you can align certain countries if you've hit the pre-reqs. You don't have a huge amount of choice in the situation. If you've done the pre-requisite stuff, it's very hard to think of a reason NOT to pick up the minor country. The question often becomes how much effort are you willing to go through to achieve those. For instance, to align Iraq as the Axis, you need to have 4 corps on the border from either the Germans or the Italians respectively, to align with that major power. Getting 4 corps there involves either taking Suez and going around the Gulf of Aden, invading Basrah, and setting up shop there, or more likely, attacking into Syria and getting on the border. Doing either is quite a bit of work, since the CW is likely to cling to Egypt pretty hard, and you'll need to pry them out. So it's not so much as "Do I want the Iraqis on my side?". It's "Is getting the Iraqis worth the sort of effort I need to do to get them?"

delatbabel -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/24/2013 11:36:43 PM)
It's always best to align minors if you can. Their force pool comes into play on your side, not the opponents' side. If an aligned minor has blue factories you can use them, if a conquered minor has blue factories you can not use them. The only knife-edge decision is Latvia, as the Germans. After taking Riga (assuming Barbarossa), the Germans have two options: * Liberate Latvia, and take it as an "aligned" minor. The Riga SS unit comes into play as a Latvian unit. It has Riga as a primary supply source. It can cooperate with German units, but not with Italian units or other German aligned minors. * Conquer Latvia. The Riga SS unit comes into play as a German unit. It has Riga as a secondary supply source (i.e. it must trace primary supply back to Germany). It can cooperate with all units that German units can cooperate with, including German aligned minors and Italian units but not Italian aligned minor units. I would say that the balance is to take Latvia as an aligned minor because then the Latvian SS unit surrounded in Riga will always be in supply, but there are advantages to taking it as a conquest instead.

paulderynck -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/25/2013 7:09:09 AM)
Conquering Latvia is not a choice the Germans have unless Russia did not take the Baltic States. Once Russia takes them and the Germans take Riga, then the choices for Germany are to liberate Latvia and get the unit plus have Riga as a secondary supply source - or do nothing and not get the unit nor the secondary supply source. You can never conquer a country that was conquered by the other side first, nor liberate one that was not.

delatbabel -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/25/2013 10:16:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paulderynck Conquering Latvia is not a choice the Germans have unless Russia did not take the Baltic States. That's true for v.7 of the rules. I wasn't aware it had changed in v.8 but it has, one of the things I had assumed had always been like that.

brian brian -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/25/2013 1:46:33 PM)
For right now, the 'Latvian' unit (a 4-1 SS GARR unit) is a moot point in MWiF, as the City Based Volunteers aren't a finished part of the game yet. I would expect them to see them coming along shortly however. ? I never thought about the idea of actually declaring the Baltic States liberated, but we have always played that we basically did I guess, which wouldn't really have changed anything. I did not know the CBV units required a Liberation decision? I thought if the CBV controlling major power took their hex, the unit is created free the first time. The Germans can't liberate Amsterdam but they get a similar unit there. CBV discussion is wandering a little bit from MWiF, but anything about WiF 8 should be left off discussing Matrix World in Flames in the interests of not confusing players who only have access to WiF 7, please. The question in the original post is a little broad, perhaps the OP has some specific minor countries to be curious about? Generally minor countries are aligned by a side based on the circumstances of geography, and how well a given minor will be able to work within a Major Power's general action limits, and what will happen when the minor is likely conquered; so there is usually just one natural choice on either side. So when the Netherlands is attacked by the Axis, the CW should align them instead of France, to manage their world-wide holdings and naval assets. In a rare game, the USA could align them if the Germans left them neutral until Japan entered the war. Aligning anything to France in the first year of the war is - well, only sometimes a good decision. For a heavy Axis attack on Yugoslavia in 1939, an alignment with France can help them move land units as the CW will be doing at least one naval impulse per turn and Belgrade might last about as long as France will. For other countries, the Allies must consider what would happen if the country were to survive longer than France itself, which is rare but can happen.

Extraneous -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/25/2013 4:17:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mat_Jack AXIS Instances where it would be best to align with specific minor countries Instances where it would be best to NOT align with specific minor countries ALIES Instances where it would be best to align with specific minor countries Instances where it would be best to NOT align with specific minor countries As an add-on, with the instances given above, where aliances chosen can burn you later on in the game based on side (allied or axis) add your feelings with a caveat. Just trying to see or otherwise measure the thoughts of some board game players with past experiances with regards to aliances and game strategies. Working on a outline for Minor countries. It won't tell you when/when not to align but it should help you making your decisions.

MatJack -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/25/2013 9:43:33 PM)
Thanks guys. No specific minor countries (agree the question was pretty loose so to speak). I'm trying to figure things out so that when actually playing I can better understand some effects and why a player would might do it. I'm sure the board gamers have seen some typical plays that make sense and some that do not. I was thinking that I can try and make my solitaire play better prep training before going up against a live person by trying to play with some different strategies and was trying to figure out when particular strategies may have specific minor country alignments within them. I'm not always good in articulating things so I'm not sure if above made sense....if not please forgive.

Extraneous -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/26/2013 1:50:00 PM)
Minor Countries (added units, resources, and factories) PatiF (Patton in Flames) units are not listed 19.7 Axis minor countries Argentina 1939 1x CAV, 1x MIL (Reserve), 2x Battleships, 4x Heavy Cruisers, 0/1/0 CP 1940 1x INF 1941 1942 1x GARR 1943 1x LND2 1944 P�ron HQ-I 1945 1x MECH, 1x FTR2 +1945 1x ARM Factories: 1 red and 1 blue Resources: 1 Oil resource Germany can declare that Argentina is aligning with it during any Axis DoW (Declaration of War) step if Argentina is neutral and an Allied major power has declared war on any minor country on the America map. Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, Rumania (edited: I made it readable) The Soviet border rectification rule (see 19.6 Soviet border rectification) explains when Germany can declare Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary and Rumania aligned with it. Rumania A neutral, Rumania supplies Germany with 2 oil resources and its other oil resource to Italy, each turn. 1939 2x INF, 1x MTN, 1x CAV, 2x MIL (Reserve), 2x LND2, 1x Heavy Cruiser, 0/1/0 CP 1940 Antonescu HQ-I 1941 1x NOT 1942 1942 1x MECH 1943 1x ARM 1944 1945 2x FTR2 +1945 2x FTR2 Factories: 1 blue Resources: 3 Oil resources If the USSR claims Bessarabia from Rumania then Germany can either allow or deny the USSR claim. If Germany allows the USSR claim for Bessarabia from Rumania: Rumania stays neutral and Bessarabia becomes part of the USSR until it controls no hexes in Bessarabia. At that point, Bessarabia again becomes part of Rumania. The USSR cannot declare war on Rumania until the USSR is at war with Germany. Allowing the claim immediately reduces the resources the USSR supplies to Germany by 1 (see 5.1Trade agreements). Bulgaria 1939 1x CAV, 1x MIL (Reserve) 1940 1x INF 1941 2x LND2 1942 1943 1944 1x INF 1945 +1945� Factories: none Resources: 1 non-oil resource Bulgaria will now claim South Dobruja from Rumania If Germany allows the Bulgaria claim: South Dobruja becomes part of Bulgaria for all purposes. Germany can align Bulgaria during any later Axis DoW step. If Germany denies the Bulgaria claim: Bulgaria can never align with Germany. But the USSR can align Bulgaria during any later Allied DoW step. Hungary A neutral Hungary must supply Germany with its resource each turn (exception: see 19.6.2 Rumania). 1939 2x INF, 1x CAV, 1x MIL (Reserve), 2x FTR2 1940 1x FTR2 1941 1942 1x MOT 1943 1x MECH 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: 1 red Resources: 1 non-oil resource Hungary will now claim Transylvania from Rumania If Germany allows the Hungarian claim: Transylvania becomes part of Hungary for all purposes. Germany can align Hungary during any later Axis DoW step. If Germany denies the Hungarian claim: Hungary stops supplying its resource to Germany until Hungary aligns with Germany. Germany can align Hungary during any Axis DoW step after Germany has declared war on the USSR (not if the USSR declares war on Germany). No more than 1 Hungarian unit can ever be outside of Hungary; If Germany denies both the Bulgaria claim and the Hungarian claim: Rumania becomes aligned with Germany as a full Axis ally during the next Axis DoW step. It need no longer keep half of its units inside Rumania - they can all leave. If Germany denies the USSR claim for Bessarabia from Rumania: The USSR must immediately declare war on Rumania. While Rumania and the USSR are at war: Germany can declare Hungary aligned with Germany during any Axis DoW step; and Bulgaria cannot align with either Germany or the USSR. Germany can enforce a peace between Rumania and the USSR during any peace step if: No hex of Rumania, outside of Bessarabia, is controlled by the USSR; and Germany and the USSR are not at war. If Rumania and the USSR come to peace: Rumania again becomes a neutral minor country; The USSR keeps control of Bessarabia provided there is a Soviet land unit anywhere in Bessarabia; and Germany can declare Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria aligned with Germany during any later Axis DoW steps. If the USSR conquers Rumania: Bulgaria can never align with Germany. But the USSR can align Bulgaria during any later Allied DoW step. Germany can align Hungary during any later Axis DoW step. Finland 1939 Mannerheim HQ-I, 1x MOT, 2x INF, 1x MIL (Reserve), 1x SKI division, 2x FTR2, 2x LND2, 2x Battleships, 5/3/1 CP 1940 1x SKI division 1941 1x MECH, 1x INF 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: none Resources: 1 non-oil resource The USSR doesn�t claim the Finnish border lands If the USSR doesn�t claim the Finnish border lands, it can not declare war on Finland. Finland can only align with Germany after Germany has declared war on the USSR (not if the USSR declares war on Germany). The USSR claims the Finnish border lands During any Allied DoW step (after the first) while Finland is neutral, the USSR can claim the Finnish border lands. The German player (acting as Finland) must either allow the claim or deny it. If Finland allows the claim, it stays neutral and the Finnish border lands become part of the USSR for all purposes until the USSR controls no hex in the Finnish border lands (at which point the Finnish border lands again become part of Finland). The USSR cannot declare war on Finland for the rest of the game. Germany can declare Finland aligned with Germany during any later Axis DoW step. Allowing the claim immediately reduces the resources the USSR supplies to Germany by 1 (see 5.1Trade agreements). If Finland denies the claim, the USSR must immediately declare war on Finland. Germany can enforce a peace between Finland and the USSR during any peace step if: No hex of Finland, outside the Finnish border lands, is Soviet controlled; and Germany and the USSR are not at war. If Finland and the USSR come to peace, Finland again becomes a neutral minor country. The USSR keeps control of the Finnish border lands, exactly as if Finland had allowed a claim to them, provided there is a Soviet land unit anywhere in the border lands. Germany can declare Finland aligned with Germany during any later Axis DoW step. The USSR cannot declare war on Finland again. Persia and Iraq Germany can declare that Persia or Iraq is aligning with it during any Axis DoW step if that minor is neutral and there are a total of at least 4 German corps in any adjacent countries (excluding the USSR and Turkey). Italy can declare that Persia or Iraq is aligning with it during any Axis DoW step if that minor is neutral and there are a total of at least 4 Italian corps in any adjacent countries (excluding the USSR and Turkey). Germany has first claim if both of them could make these declarations. Iraq A neutral Iraq must supply France with 1 of its oil resources each turn. If France is conquered, or if a Vichy government has been installed (see 17.1 Creation), Iraq instead provides the oil to whichever major power or minor country controls Syria. A Vichy-controlled Syria will pass it on to the major power that installed a Vichy Government. 1939 1x CAV, 1x MIL (Reserve) 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: None Resources: 2 Oil resources Persia A neutral Persia must supply the Commonwealth with 1 of its oil resources each turn. 1939 1x CAV, 1x MIL (Reserve) 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: None Resources: 3 Oil resources Siam 1939 1x MIL (Reserve), 1x Heavy Cruiser, 1x Light Cruiser 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: None Resources: None Japan can declare that Siam is aligning with Japan during any Axis DoW step if Siam is neutral. Spain While Paris is Axis controlled, a neutral Spain must supply Germany with 1 resource a turn. 1939 Franco HQ-I, 1x MOT, 5x INF, 2x GARR, 2x MIL, 2x MIL (Reserve), 2x FTR2, 2x LND3, 4x Heavy Cruisers, 4x Light Cruisers, 1x TRS 1940 1x MECH 1941 1942 1x ARM 1943 1x LND3 1944 1945 1x FTR2 +1945 1x MTN Factories: 2 red and 2 blue Resources: 4 non-oil resources An Axis major power can declare that Spain is aligning with it during any Axis DoW step if Spain is neutral and a unit from that Axis major power occupies Gibraltar. Once aligned, Gibraltar becomes part of the Spanish home country. Sweden A neutral Sweden must supply Germany with 3 resources each turn. 1939 Gustav. V HQ-I, 2x INF, 1x MTN, 2x GARR, 2x MIL (Reserve), 1x SKI division, 2x FTR2, 2x LND3, 10x Heavy Cruisers, 1x Light Cruisers, 1x TRS, 5/6/4 CP 1940 1x MOT 1941 1x MECH, 2x LND2 1942 1943 1x ARM, 2x FTR2, 1x LND3 1944 1x LND3 1945 1x FTR2 +1945 Factories: 1 red and 3 blue Resources: 3 non-oil resources German units can move, and trace supply, into and through Sweden if Sweden is neutral and if there is at least 1 other German unit in each of Finland and Norway. If Sweden is neutral, no German unit can end a step in Sweden. Turkey A neutral Turkey must supply Germany with 1 resource each turn, until Italy is conquered. 1939 In�n� HQ-I, 3x INF, 1x MTN, 2x GARR, 2x MIL (Reserve), 1x CAV, 2x FTR2 1940 1941 1x MOT, 1x LND3 1942 1x MECH 1943 1944 1945 +1945 Factories: 1 red and 1 blue Resources: 2 non-oil resources Germany can declare that Turkey is aligning with it during any Axis DoW step if Turkey is neutral and at least 4 German corps in the USSR are in hexes adjacent to the Turkish border. Yugoslavia 1939 Prince Paul HQ-I, 2x INF, 1x MTN, 2x MIL (Reserve) 1940 1x INF 1941 1942 1x FTR2 1943 1x MECH 1944 1945 +1945 1x MECH Factories: 2 blue Resources: 2 non-oil resources An Axis major power that controls Athens can declare that Yugoslavia is aligning with it during any Axis DoW step if: � Yugoslavia is neutral; and � Italy, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Greece and Albania are all Axis controlled. 19.8 Allied minor countries Brazil 1939 1x CAV, 1x MIL (Reserve), 0/2/0 CP, 2z Battleships, 1x Heavy Cruiser, 2x Light Cruisers, 0/2/0 CP 1940 1x MOT, 1x INF 1941 1x INF 1942 1x FTR2 1943 1x MECH, 1x MOT, 1x GARR, 1x MIL, 1x FTR2 1944 Vagas HQ-I, 1x MECH, 1x MTN 1945 1x GARR, 1x LND3 +1945 1x FTR2 Factories: 1 red and 1 blue Resources: 1 non-oil resource The USA can declare that Brazil is aligning with it during any Allied DoW step if Brazil is neutral and the USA is at war with Germany, Italy and Japan. See 13.8 Victory check below. Central America 1939 5/5/1 CP 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: None Resources: None The USA can declare that Central America is aligning with it during any Allied DoW step if Central America is neutral and the USA is at war with Germany, Italy or Japan. Mexico 1939 1x INF, 1x CAV, 2x MIL (Reserve), 1x Heavy Cruiser 1940 1x MOT 1941 1x INF, 2x MIL (Reserve) 1942 1x GARR, 1x FTR2 1943 1x MECH 1944 Cardenas HQ-I 1945 2x FTR2 +1945 1x ARM, 1x LND3 Factories: 1 red Resources: 2 oil resources and 1 non-oil resource The USA can declare that Mexico is aligning with it during any Allied DoW step if Mexico is neutral and the USA is at war with Germany, Italy and Japan. See 13.8 Victory check below. Mongolia 1939 1x CAV 1940 1941 1942 1x CAV 1943 1944 1945 +1945 � Factories: None Resources: None Mongolia is a minor country aligned with the USSR in every scenario. Yugoslavia 1939 Prince Paul HQ-I, 2x INF, 1x MTN, 2x MIL (Reserve), 1x Heavy Cruiser, 0/1/0 CP 1940 1x INF 1941 1942 1x FTR2 1943 1x MECH 1944 1x FTR2 1945 1x MOT +1945 1x MECH Factories: 2 blue Resources: 2 non-oil resources The Commonwealth can declare that Yugoslavia is aligning with it during any Allied DoW step if Yugoslavia is neutral and there are a total of 4 or more Commonwealth corps in any adjacent countries. France can declare that Yugoslavia is aligning with it during any Allied DoW step if Yugoslavia is neutral and there are a total of 4 or more French corps in any adjacent countries. quote: 9.10 Japanese occupation Japan can announce the occupation of French Indo-China and Madagascar during the DoW step (see 13.3.3 US entry actions, entry actions 1 Japan occupies Indo-China & 5 Japan occupies Madagascar). If the prerequisites in 13.3.3 US entry actions are met, you may align these minors even if the minor country is aligned, provided Japan is not at war with the controlling major power. 1. Japan occupies Indo-China (1 USA entry chit and a 20% chance that another being added to the USA (Ja) entry pool) Japan aligns French Indo-China but only if it is a Vichy territory (see 17.2 Determine control) and there are no Allied units there. Japan does this by announcing the occupation during an Axis declaration of war step. Move any Vichy units in French Indo-China to the Free French force pool. All hexes in French Indo-China immediately become Japanese controlled. 1939 1x Heavy Cruiaer 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: None Resources: 1 non-oil resource 5. Japan occupies Madagascar (1 USA entry chit and a 50% chance of another will be added to the USA (Ja) entry pool) Japan aligns Madagascar but only if it is a Vichy territory (see 17.2 Determine control) and there are no Allied units there. Japan does this by announcing the occupation during an Axis declaration of war step. Japan must have aligned French Indo-China (see entry action 1) in a previous turn. Move any Vichy units in Madagascar to the Free French force pool. All hexes in Madagascar immediately become Japanese controlled. 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: None Resources: None quote: 19.9 Netherlands East Indies You can�t move Allied land and aircraft (except Netherlands) units to the Netherlands East Indies until: � you have chosen US entry option 51 (see 13.3.2 US entry options); or � Japan is at war with the Commonwealth; or � An Axis land unit has entered the Netherlands East Indies. Thereafter, there is no restriction. Note: there is an error here under 13.3.2 US entry options there is no option 51. quote: 43. CW reinforces the Netherlands East Indies (JA) (2 USA (Ja) entry pool chits and a 50% chance that anther will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool) You can�t move Allied (except NEI) land and aircraft units to the Netherlands East Indies until: � you have chosen this option; or � Japan is at war with the Commonwealth; or � an Axis land unit (other than a partisan) has entered the Netherlands East Indies. Thereafter, there is no restriction. You can only choose this entry option after you have chosen entry option 31 and Germany or Italy have declared war on the Netherlands. The Netherlands must supply Japan with 2 oil resources a turn. This continues until Japan is at war with either the Netherlands or the Commonwealth, or the US embargoes oil sales to Japan (see 13.3.2, entry option 31Oil embargo). quote: 31. Oil embargo (Ja) (There is a 90% chance that a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool) This entry option can only be chosen if you have already chosen entry option 23. Freeze Japanese assets. Japan no longer receives any resources from the US or from the Netherlands East Indies. You need no longer maintain a convoy chain to Japan. A neutral Netherlands must supply the CW with all its remaining oil. 1939 1x TERR, 1x MIL (Reserve) 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 +1945� Factories: None Resources: 4 Oil resources quote: 19.11 French African minors (edited: I removed all references to Africa maps) Mauretania, French Sudan, Senegal, French Guinea, Ivory Coast, Upper Volta, Togo & Dahomey and Niger Colony are separate minor countries. quote: 5.1 Trade agreements In each turn, Germany must lend lease 2 build points to the USSR while the USSR must supply Germany with 7 resources (2 of them must be oil). These numbers can change if circumstances vary. For each of Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Rumania; and Turkey that an Axis major power either declares war on or aligns with (see 9.7 Controlling new minors, 9.8 Aligning minors. and 19 Minor countries), reduce the number of resources the USSR must supply by 1 (minimum 0). Reduce the ordinary resources before you reduce any oil resources. For each of Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden or Yugoslavia that the Soviet Union declares war, or a Soviet controlled unit enters, Germany may choose to either keep one of the build points it would normally send to the Soviet Union, or receive an extra oil from the Soviet Union, each turn. This choice cannot be changed later. The USSR and Germany stop supplying these resources and build points once the Nazi-Soviet pact is broken and keep them for themselves, even the turn the pact is broken. The USA and Japan start the game with an agreement in place to exchange a Japanese build point for US resources. The USA must supply Japan with 4 resources each turn. Two of them must be oil resources. These amounts can be reduced, or avoided entirely, by certain US entry options (see 13.3.2 US entry options). Japan must lend lease the USA with 1 build point a turn until the USA embargoes strategic materials (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 13 Embargo on strategic materials). quote: 13. Embargo on strategic materials (Ja) (There is a 50% chance that a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool) The US only convoys 3 resources to Japan per turn instead of 4. This takes effect from this step. Two of the resources must still be oil resources. Japan no longer needs to supply the USA with a build point. Shipment Where possible, these resources (or build points) are transported by rail (see 13.6.1 Resources). If this isn�t possible, the recipient must provide the convoys required to receive them (exception: the joint Japan-USA convoy, see above). If the recipient cannot provide the convoys, they do not receive the resources (or build points). quote: 19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet pact If a German controlled unit enters any hex in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania or Turkey or declares war on any of these countries, then the Soviet player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Allied DoW step. Setting up the Baltic States� convoys is not considered entering a hex in these countries. If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis DoW step. Once broken, there is no longer a neutrality pact (see 9.5), nor a trade agreement (see 5.1), between Germany and the USSR. quote: 13.8 Victory check Subtract 1 from an Allied major power�s total for each minor country on the American map that it declared war on. Subtract 1 from the USA�s total if the USA has declared that both Mexico and Brazil are aligned with it (see 19.8 Allied minor countries).

Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/26/2013 1:56:17 PM)
Very good post Extraneous, but could I suggest you add in a little note that if the U.S. aligns both Mexico and Brazil, they lose a point? Makes you choose which one you really want, of if you think you can advance far and fast enough to just not care.

Extraneous -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/26/2013 4:25:53 PM)
[X(] Whoops [X(] I forgot that one. Good catch Wedge!

MatJack -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/28/2013 12:35:02 PM)
Thanks for the work in posting that information Extraneous

Extraneous -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/29/2013 11:36:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge Very good post Extraneous, but could I suggest you add in a little note that if the U.S. aligns both Mexico and Brazil, they lose a point? Makes you choose which one you really want, of if you think you can advance far and fast enough to just not care. Fixed this and added trade agreements.

Zorachus99 -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (11/30/2013 8:09:05 PM)
I would strongly recommend reading the AI threads. Very sound strategy for all the major powers, not just the alignment of neutrals.

Orm -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (12/1/2013 4:38:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge Generally, you can align certain countries if you've hit the pre-reqs. You don't have a huge amount of choice in the situation. If you've done the pre-requisite stuff, it's very hard to think of a reason NOT to pick up the minor country. The question often becomes how much effort are you willing to go through to achieve those. For instance, to align Iraq as the Axis, you need to have 4 corps on the border from either the Germans or the Italians respectively, to align with that major power. Getting 4 corps there involves either taking Suez and going around the Gulf of Aden, invading Basrah, and setting up shop there, or more likely, attacking into Syria and getting on the border. Doing either is quite a bit of work, since the CW is likely to cling to Egypt pretty hard, and you'll need to pry them out. So it's not so much as "Do I want the Iraqis on my side?". It's "Is getting the Iraqis worth the sort of effort I need to do to get them?" You do not need to get the 4 corps to the actual border. It is enough just to get them into a bordering country and that is much easier. RAC: 19.7 Axis minor countries ... Persia and Iraq Germany can declare that Persia or Iraq is aligning with it during any Axis declaration of war step if that minor is neutral and there are a total of at least 4 German corps in any adjacent countries (excluding the USSR and Turkey). Italy can declare that Persia or Iraq is aligning with it during any Axis declaration of war step if that minor is neutral and there are a total of at least 4 Italian corps in any adjacent countries (excluding the USSR and Turkey). Germany has first claim if both of them could make these declarations.

vicberg -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (12/1/2013 5:25:14 PM)
Here's a sample strategy for minors as Axis. RU claims Bessarabia. GE denies Hungary and Bulgarian claims for Rumanian Territory GE DOWs Hungary. GE aligns Rumania. There's two flavors at this point. Russia take a 50% chance for losing a USE chit and aligns Bulgaria or Russia does nothing. If Russia does nothing, then GE/Rumania conquer Bulgaria GE/IT conquers Greece IT aligns Yugoslavia. If Russia aligns Bulgaria, then GE/IT conquer Greece via invasion and an attack from Albania GE/Rumania DOW/conquer Bulgaria at same time as Russian DOW. IT aligns Yugoslavia. What does this give you? A Yugoslavian HQ, a bunch of Yugo units and the ability for IT to shift it's government over to Yugoslavia in the event of IT being conquered. Yugoslavia is easily defended, whereas Albania or Africa, the only other locations that IT government can move to, are not as easy to defend. In combination with moving IT units outside of IT (to prevent them from being lost in the event of an IT incomplete conquer), it provides a large land force that can withstand IT being conquered and enables Axis to possibly win the game into 45. What's the counter to this? RU doesn't claim Bessarabia. It doesn't eliminate this Yugo strategy, but if RU doesn't claim, then Axis can only align everything after a Russian DOW at 1 per impulse and that makes this entire process much more difficult and time consuming. There's dangers with the strategy, such as CW pushing corp into Greece, etc., but it's an effective strategy. Another thing to consider. What if RU claims the Baltic States? IT units can come in and "liberate" them, so it's another aligned minor that IT can transfer the gov to and keep IT units on the board. So what's the counter to that? Don't claim the Baltic States.

Extraneous -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (12/3/2013 10:15:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vicberg Another thing to consider. What if RU claims the Baltic States? IT units can come in and "liberate" them, so it's another aligned minor that IT can transfer the gov to and keep IT units on the board. So what's the counter to that? Don't claim the Baltic States. quote: 20. The Axis declares war on: (if Japan declares war place USA entry chit in the USA (Ja) entry pool else place it in the USA (Ge/It) entry pool) Poland, Spain, Turkey or any American country (1 USA entry chit and a 20% chance of another will be added to the USA entry pool) Belgium, Finland, Rumania, Sweden or Switzerland (There is a 80% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool) Other minor (There is a 30% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool) 27. The USSR controls Nazi-Soviet Pact areas (Baltic States) (There is a 40% chance a USA entry chit will be removed from the USA (Ge/It) entry pool) The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia) during any Allied land movement step after it has exercised its rights to eastern Poland. You can only exercise your rights over those states that are neutral (see 19.5.2 Baltic States). 19.5.2 Baltic States The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia) during any Allied land movement step after it has exercised its rights to eastern Poland. You can only exercise your rights over those states that are neutral. You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of the Baltic States. Once you exercise those rights, the Baltic States are considered immediately conquered by the Soviet Union (without the Baltic States being aligned or its units set up). If the USSR chooses to control the Baltic States Yes the Italians could liberate them. Liberated minor countries are aligned, and may co-operate, with the liberating major power. If liberated the Baltic States have no units but can be a source of supply. If the USSR chooses not to control the Baltic States This means the flanks of the USSR and the Axis on the Baltic Sea are open to be exploited. If they want them the Axis would be required to individually DoW Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia. If the Axis DoW Estonia and Latvia and you use SiF the USSR gets free CP's (see WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf rule 19.4 Minor country units) Estonia 0/1/0 (WiF/SiF/CoiF) Latvia 0/1/0 So if the USSR doesn't mind leaving it's Baltic Sea flank open they don't need to control the Baltic States.

Dabrion -> RE: Aliances with minor countries (12/3/2013 3:32:08 PM)
A notable addition to Extraneous list is the possibility to liberate Ethiopia from Italy, which yields an HQ!

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