RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF)

RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (Full Version)

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bo -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/28/2013 6:45:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: Dabrion quote: ORIGINAL: monkla Since we are talking about our impressions of Matrix World in Flames. I would like to offer my two cents worth and also explain why. I find myself quite disappointment with this product that has come out. I have attempted to play the game and it didn't take too long before I ran into multiple bugs. I peruse the tech help section and see great listings of bugs being reported. This I don't understand. You see, when I factor in postage costs, this game has cost me $160. That is more, in fact, way more than any other computer game that I have ever bought. It is also more expensive than 90% of the board games that I have bought. I would like to think for that amount of money that I could expect a product that was relatively bug free. None of the other computer games I have purchased from other companies are like this. I wonder why, therefore, that we as a gaming community seem so ready to accept a product, which to my mind, is manifestly unready for release. It is not my intention when I buy a game, that I am diving into the game as a game tester rather than one who just wants to play a fun, smooth running game. I also don't understand why there was a need, in this day and age, to deny the customer base the right to purchase the game via digital downloads. I have purchased games from Matrix in the past. This included Empire in Arms. Another product which left me with the same feeling - that I am paying my money for the right to be a play tester. It is for the above reasons that I find myself in the position that I have no intention to purchase any other Matrix games in the future. I understand that there are those our there that will disagree with my point of view. But I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a not insignificant number who felt similarly. +1 I can understand that you think this way. I have to respect both your opinions regarding this. However, I give you the following question: 1. Matrix announced that Netplay wasn't bugfree and also stated that not all optional rules are in the game at this moment. This could have given you the idea that things might not be good enough to live up to your expectations. 2. Matrix is as a company entitled to set the conditions how to get the game. So why did you buy it, knowing these two things? Why didn't you wait? I'll give you the answer: you wanted this game, because you've been waiting for so long to get your hands on this. So gentlemen: either you live with this for the moment and help us fix this monster, or you put it into a computer folder, follow the forums and wait until you think it is playable... That's how I think about these (and I quote a somewhat strange tank commander out of an even stranger WW II movie, which I like a lot, since it is a very funny one...) "negative waves"... Well said Centuur, but I need some clarification here about the word trolling, I have heard about it before, could someone please explain it to me, and what it means. Bo

lomyrin -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/28/2013 6:48:06 PM)
Since the game works well enough to produce several AAR's, it would seem plausible that the bugs are not all that many and that the UI works well. There is a great deal of information in the books that undoubtedly would eliminate many error or bug reports if the poster had read them. Unfortunately there is a rather steep learning curve that must be worked through before one can play this game proficiently. Very likely the persons producing the AAR's have passed the learning curve and so do not find all that many problems in the play.

Dabrion -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/28/2013 6:50:01 PM)
quote: From the "Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers", enumeration 5.) "No Trolling. Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the message board. Trolling could be directed towards one user or a group of users. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion; it only encourages personal attacks and will not be tolerated." hth

bo -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/28/2013 7:08:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dabrion quote: From the "Rules, Policies, and Disclaimers", enumeration 5.) "No Trolling. Trolling is whenever someone is clearly, deliberately posting in a manner for the purpose of angering and/or insulting the other participants of the message board. Trolling could be directed towards one user or a group of users. Trolling DOES NOT encourage further discussion; it only encourages personal attacks and will not be tolerated." hth Thank you I appreciate that Quote it clears up many things in my mind. Bo

paulderynck -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/29/2013 10:02:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dabrion It is just a sad thing that this is the officially licensed version. As opposed to the unofficial unlicensed version? Where is that available?

alexvand -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/30/2013 12:40:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paulderynck quote: ORIGINAL: Dabrion It is just a sad thing that this is the officially licensed version. As opposed to the unofficial unlicensed version? Where is that available? It's called Vassal. I've tried to play games with Vassal, but it doesn't enforce the rules at all, it just gives you the map and counters to play with and you have to enforce the rules. Not quite what I was looking for. MWiF is what I wanted and I am enjoying it immensely.

paulderynck -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/30/2013 3:38:07 AM)
Yes I am familiar with Vassal. Especially the Version 7.00 module. And I too, think MWiF is better.

DSWargamer -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/30/2013 3:40:43 AM)
Vassal, it's a tool used to play a board game over an electronic communication option ie on a computer on the internet against a distant opponent. Which is basically what most computer wargames can be said to be, as so many of them look like they were made to look like board games. People laugh at the low tech graphics of our board game looking wargames, and wonder, why do they have such old looking graphics. It's because we like them that way. The thing is, Vassal is basically best described as plain unbuttered bread. Yeah you can eat it, but it does kinda suck. Now some computer wargames try very hard, but often they end up best being described as a cake with the wrong ingredients. A dry cake with an inch of lousy frosting isn't going to impress anyone if they are used to better. Computer WiF is still basically a board game on a computer, but it simply tastes a lot nicer. Sure it isn't perfect, and frankly if you want awesome, you're going to need the 9x21 maps and play the game on them and use the hardcover books as deluxe rules and maybe employ the program as a great bonus tool. Vassal, because I suppose some don't mind dry plain unbuttered bread. Ideally though, I wish they made more computer wargames closer to being what they could have been, ideal tools, and less games meant to be played solo against you guess it :) an idiot opponent :) But hey, it's a product, and you can't fault a company trying to make the most cash doing what they desire to do for the product. I keep telling myself, maybe I should knuckle under and master VASL, the offshoot of Vassal made for ASL. But somehow, playing that awesome board game on a computer just seems to lack something for me. It's not the same. Board games work, because they are designed to work in a physical realm. You can look down, and see the whole map. You don't require zoom controls. You don't need mini navigation maps. You don't need to explain pull down menus and other assorted mouse controls. And you don't need a host of explanations for various functions. The thing with board games, is you actually MUST read the manual to play the game, because until you learn the game, you have nothing. It's why I can talk about the details of the design of some board games at length, because I had to read them and memorize them. The day will simply never come when I actually have all the design aspects of a computer wargame memorized, as so much of the design is not even available to examine. You click on a unit, you get a shaded zone of where it can get to. The game never needs to explain HOW the unit was able to get to any of the locations though. Making a program to mimic a board game of this magnitude, well it must have been a real special hell trying to make the little things of a board game make sense in a program. And so many thing needed in a program, well the original board game simply would have never needed to care.

Empire101 -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/30/2013 1:56:00 PM)
At last its here!!! I went straight to the shop, but immediately baulked at the whooping �27 shipping costs!!! So I read this thread, and seeing how my old mucker Warspite wrote about it, I'm diving in, hoping it will in some way bring back the heady days of my youth!![8\|] Joking aside, I am going to enjoy trolling through, and making the same old mistakes......Warspite, look out, I'll be wanting a campaign game soon!! I just can't wait!!! :)

warspite1 -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (11/30/2013 5:37:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Empire101 At last its here!!! I went straight to the shop, but immediately baulked at the whooping �27 shipping costs!!! So I read this thread, and seeing how my old mucker Warspite wrote about it, I'm diving in, hoping it will in some way bring back the heady days of my youth!![8\|] Joking aside, I am going to enjoy trolling through, and making the same old mistakes......Warspite, look out, I'll be wanting a campaign game soon!! I just can't wait!!! :) warspite1 Where the hell have you and your scrawny little boat been Empire? Good to see you back anyway. Yes, once net play is up and running will be pleased to take you on. As you can see from the AAR, you won't have too much trouble [;)]

Empire101 -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/1/2013 12:36:17 PM)
Scrawny little boat!! ( Harumph!!! ) Well still trying to download the monster, tried the suggested accelerators without much success [:(] Am now trying my fifth attempt to download [:(]

Neilster -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/1/2013 2:46:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Empire101 Scrawny little boat!! ( Harumph!!! ) Well still trying to download the monster, tried the suggested accelerators without much success [:(] Am now trying my fifth attempt to download [:(] I used Download Accelerator without problems but I don't think it actually did any acceleration. I'd try default everything and see how you go. Cheers, Neilster

Empire101 -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/2/2013 4:56:10 AM)
Well after a massive 12hr download using DAP, I've finally got it after several failed attempts. ( Thank God I've got the hard copy coming too!! ) I'll unpack the ZIP file on my return from work. By the way Neilster....what happened to your cool avatar of the Panzer recruiting poster? I rather liked that one.[:)]

monkla -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/2/2013 10:10:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: Dabrion quote: ORIGINAL: monkla Since we are talking about our impressions of Matrix World in Flames. I would like to offer my two cents worth and also explain why. I find myself quite disappointment with this product that has come out. I have attempted to play the game and it didn't take too long before I ran into multiple bugs. I peruse the tech help section and see great listings of bugs being reported. This I don't understand. You see, when I factor in postage costs, this game has cost me $160. That is more, in fact, way more than any other computer game that I have ever bought. It is also more expensive than 90% of the board games that I have bought. I would like to think for that amount of money that I could expect a product that was relatively bug free. None of the other computer games I have purchased from other companies are like this. I wonder why, therefore, that we as a gaming community seem so ready to accept a product, which to my mind, is manifestly unready for release. It is not my intention when I buy a game, that I am diving into the game as a game tester rather than one who just wants to play a fun, smooth running game. I also don't understand why there was a need, in this day and age, to deny the customer base the right to purchase the game via digital downloads. I have purchased games from Matrix in the past. This included Empire in Arms. Another product which left me with the same feeling - that I am paying my money for the right to be a play tester. It is for the above reasons that I find myself in the position that I have no intention to purchase any other Matrix games in the future. I understand that there are those our there that will disagree with my point of view. But I also wouldn't be surprised if there was a not insignificant number who felt similarly. +1 I can understand that you think this way. I have to respect both your opinions regarding this. However, I give you the following question: 1. Matrix announced that Netplay wasn't bugfree and also stated that not all optional rules are in the game at this moment. This could have given you the idea that things might not be good enough to live up to your expectations. 2. Matrix is as a company entitled to set the conditions how to get the game. So why did you buy it, knowing these two things? Why didn't you wait? I'll give you the answer: you wanted this game, because you've been waiting for so long to get your hands on this. So gentlemen: either you live with this for the moment and help us fix this monster, or you put it into a computer folder, follow the forums and wait until you think it is playable... That's how I think about these (and I quote a somewhat strange tank commander out of an even stranger WW II movie, which I like a lot, since it is a very funny one...) "negative waves"... Well said Centuur, but I need some clarification here about the word trolling, I have heard about it before, could someone please explain it to me, and what it means. Bo Hi again, Just to respond to earlier posts. I am, and will continue to do so, download the updates as they get posted. The bugs I have found are simply duplicates of what are already being reported by others. And while I understand Matrix has the right to release the product in whatever condition they wish, I as a consumer have the right to my own opinion of those releases. I figure it is no good me sulking in the back of my computer room and not say anything. It can only be more productive to open up a dialogue and let Matrix know what my views are. If enough people were to agree with me, then they too can speak up if they choose. And as per our democratic ideals, hopefully, if there are enough who feel a certain way then Matrix may look differently at any future releases. I would otherwise just ask the question. If you were to buy a new car and the brakes partly worked, and the headlights wouldn't turn on and the indicators wouldn't turn off. Would you tell yourself, "oh, I'll just keep driving this car, report the problems and they'll get those problems sorted out and then give me the upgrades later". I think I know what the general consensus would be. I do not see a difference between that situation and MWiF.

bo -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/2/2013 3:44:38 PM)
Hi monkla I see my post in your post and I would like to clear that up, I was not referring to you in any way or accusing you of trolling, I feel you were very concerned about the product you bought, you stated your feelings and some of the posters including me answered your post. That is what the forums are about IMO give and take, sharing opinons and ideas, it is when these opinions turn nasty with insults and agitiating that the word trolling rears it's ugly head. I personally find nothing wrong with your posts. Just maybe a little frustration with the game. Bo

WarHunter -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/2/2013 4:00:16 PM)
My MWiF car also has a couple problems. My rear window wiper is stuck. The radio only gets AM channels. Passenger seat does not adjust. The interior light is missing. Nothing that prevents me from driving safely. The headlights are a little dimmer than I'm use to. The brakes work fine. If the turn indicators have a problem, i just use basic hand and arm signals to warn other MWiF cars. I have MATRIX car towing/insurance. They have not left me stranded if my MWiF car does act up and its sidelined. [sm=terms.gif] Overall no safety problems to keep me off the road in flames.[sm=tank2-39.gif]

monkla -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/5/2013 1:24:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo Hi monkla I see my post in your post and I would like to clear that up, I was not referring to you in any way or accusing you of trolling, I feel you were very concerned about the product you bought, you stated your feelings and some of the posters including me answered your post. That is what the forums are about IMO give and take, sharing opinons and ideas, it is when these opinions turn nasty with insults and agitiating that the word trolling rears it's ugly head. I personally find nothing wrong with your posts. Just maybe a little frustration with the game. Bo No worries. I never thought that anyone had said anything to be concerned about. Anyhow. I've said my piece. I leave it to others to offer their opinions if they care. That only leaves the patient wait for a fully functional game.

Jones944 -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/6/2013 12:34:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: monkla I would otherwise just ask the question. If you were to buy a new car and the brakes partly worked, and the headlights wouldn't turn on and the indicators wouldn't turn off. Would you tell yourself, "oh, I'll just keep driving this car, report the problems and they'll get those problems sorted out and then give me the upgrades later". I think I know what the general consensus would be. I do not see a difference between that situation and MWiF. Car manufacturers recall cars quite often. They don't like it but no one has gone out of business for it yet, even though there have been deaths directly linked back to the problems (see Toyota accelerator issues). Also, none of us have paid $20,000 for this game.... [:)]

JagWars -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 6:11:35 AM)
Actually quite a few automobile manufacturers have ceased production because they produced a sub-standard product. I received my copy of MWIF on 20 November. Since then I have played it four to five hours per day. My complaints are: 1.) The only serious bug that I have encountered is the issue with Japanese supply in China. I have experience about a dozen MadExempts at this point. (I am not counting the ones that I receive when I change screens from MWIF to some other programme as they do not seem to have any effect upon play.) 2.) The production/convoy system is cumbersome and confusing and while most of the time I can make it do what I want, sometimes I just give up and let the programme do what it wants. 3.) I do not like that I cannot temporarily over-stack so that I can exchange units between or amoung hexes. The undo work-around that has been suggested works most of the time, but not in all instances, but is still an annoyance and requires extra time an patience to enable. 4.) The interface, in general, is cumbersome. I am already tired of having to click okay everytime I see a dialogue box of "switching to player1" or "switching to player2". 99% of the time it is obvious and is nothing more than an intrusion into the game flow. 5.) I dislike that he MV dialogue box that pops up everytime the game changes to a different country. I am well versed in global geography and do not need a roadmap to major locations around the world. I much prefer to use the Global Map. If there is a way to disable this function, I have been unable to discover it. 6.) I think that $100 is quite rich for a computer game. The manuals far exceed anything I have seen in a Computer or table-top board game, but I still think that the price is too high. I have said this for 20 years and I shall hopefully say it for another 20 years. A product that is only available through the post should include the cost of shipping, otherwise the company is misrepresenting the cost of their product. Yes I realize that the shipping cost can vary depending upon receipt location, but in todays world of actuaries and computers, a standardized price for shipments within the USA, within the EU, into Africa, etc., should not be a challenge. Similarly with customs and tariffs. I spent 15 years in International Sales and Marketing, so I am well aware the vagaries that customs agents around the globe can create in taxes and fees. However, I found little variance amoung agents within the EU and little motivation outside the EU for attempting to gouge consumers on items of low cost or value. Also, the shipping agent can have a huge impact upon how the customs agent taxes imports. I found FedEx and UPS to be the least co-operative in preparing the export/import documents in the manner most advantages to the consumer. 7.) I am disappointed that so many of the optional rules are not available. I know that I was made aware of this at the time of purchase. It is suppose to be a representation of the board game so all of the optional rules should work. All and all, I am having a good time with the game and look forward to NetPlay being fully flushed out so that my mates can join me.

paulderynck -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 6:36:58 AM)
A very fair and balanced post. Cheers. There are things you mentioned which provide fuel for possible improvements in the game, like the MV window and making the player switch happen automatically, perhaps via setting in the player interface. I hope Shannon has a chance to review your comments in between the bug-fixing. BTW your current cost per hour of play is conservatively estimated at $1.47

Centuur -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 6:59:59 AM)
I like you remark about the MV screens. I don't use them either and also would like to see an option of not having them in the game.

alexvand -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 1:12:26 PM)
It's interesting, I too found the MV tool irritating at first, but the more I've played the more useful I've found it. After all it was there so I started clicking on it. Now I wouldn't want to play without it anymore. Of course, I'm playing on a laptop and don't have the screen real estate to have the global map showing at all. Although, I do understand those of you who'd like to shut it off.

Neilster -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 2:15:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Empire101 Well after a massive 12hr download using DAP, I've finally got it after several failed attempts. ( Thank God I've got the hard copy coming too!! ) I'll unpack the ZIP file on my return from work. By the way Neilster....what happened to your cool avatar of the Panzer recruiting poster? I rather liked that one.[:)] Yeah...that was cool but I made this MWiF Earth one. It's all part of my long running campaign for a spheroidal global map [;)] Cheers, Neilster

AxelNL -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 2:31:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur I like you remark about the MV screens. I don't use them either and also would like to see an option of not having them in the game. I can confirm not using them (yet). On my second monitor they are harmless however.

Zorachus99 -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 2:58:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur I like you remark about the MV screens. I don't use them either and also would like to see an option of not having them in the game. Agreed as well. I have no need as they change the zoom level when you use them too. Turning it off would be nice. I bought a 30" LCD that does 2560x1600 resolution to play Vassal as comfortably as possible. In the past few years I've given up on Vassal simply because the mistakes I make accelerate as I age. [:(] Currently my WIF-buddy and I are so close to playing online MWIF, I can taste it.

Centuur -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 4:40:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: alex_van_d It's interesting, I too found the MV tool irritating at first, but the more I've played the more useful I've found it. After all it was there so I started clicking on it. Now I wouldn't want to play without it anymore. Of course, I'm playing on a laptop and don't have the screen real estate to have the global map showing at all. Although, I do understand those of you who'd like to shut it off. I'm using a lap top too and they use parts of the screen I rather would like to put the Global Map into. Same with the SL screen. I have one screen layout and never change that one... Imagine what I could do if I put the Global Map a little higher... [:(] If you have a lone small monitor, those two forms aren't nice at all...

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 5:23:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: alex_van_d It's interesting, I too found the MV tool irritating at first, but the more I've played the more useful I've found it. After all it was there so I started clicking on it. Now I wouldn't want to play without it anymore. Of course, I'm playing on a laptop and don't have the screen real estate to have the global map showing at all. Although, I do understand those of you who'd like to shut it off. I'm using a lap top too and they use parts of the screen I rather would like to put the Global Map into. Same with the SL screen. I have one screen layout and never change that one... Imagine what I could do if I put the Global Map a little higher... [:(] If you have a lone small monitor, those two forms aren't nice at all... Roll them up and position them 'beneath' the Selectable Units form (where it appears). You can also remove items from the MV List that you don't want; use the 'Delete' command from its popup menu and it will be deleted from the list - but not the disk. I think you can also close the MV List and Redefine the Screen Layout so it never appears.

JagWars -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 5:23:19 PM)
I like to eat my breakfast outside, even in the winter so I take my hot grits, fruit crepes and Irish coffee onto the porch along with my Win8 10" tablet and play MWIF as I drink my next two or three cups of coffee. I need as much real estate as possible for the main map when I am using the tablet, so anything that is not essential for playing the game is an annoyance. I do not know if it was intended, but I was surprised to discover that much of the game can be touch activated. Some that do not appear to work may be because the activation area on the screen is so small that I cannot hit it precisely enough with my fingers, for sure, nor the touch pen.

JagWars -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 5:27:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets I think you can also close the MV List and Redefine the Screen Layout so it never appears. Thanks, I tried this early on and was unsuccessful, but I shall certainly give it another go.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Impressions of Matrix World In Flames (MWIF) (12/8/2013 5:29:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jaguar quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets I think you can also close the MV List and Redefine the Screen Layout so it never appears. Thanks, I tried this early on and was unsuccessful, but I shall certainly give it another go. You will need to Redefine the screen layout for each major power.

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