Problem w/ AI waypoints (Full Version)

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DoubleDeuce -> Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 9:33:03 PM)

OK. I am working a scenario and I have a few units designated to run out and grab some unclaimed VL locations once the scenario starts. They are only a few hexes away and I would think that the AI would not have a problem running out and grabbing those "freebies". But the entire scenario those units just sit in place. I do not have them set to be Inactive or Locked. I even added in waypoints for them, then re-saved the scenario just in case. They still just sit there while the other units move with no problem BUT while those other units move around the map, they do not seem interested in the unclaimed VL locations either.

Am I doing something wrong?



Mad Russian -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 9:43:16 PM)

Do you have screen shot?

Thanks.

Good Hunting.

MR



CapnDarwin -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 9:44:23 PM)

Being a few hexes away from the objectives the AI may already consider itself in a position to defend those objectives. Are these enemy or neutral? I would also move the forces back a few more hexes and see if that entices them to close an take the objective then spread out to defend.



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 10:16:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Do you have screen shot?

Well, it might spoil FOW a little for my campaign [:D] but yeah, let me see if I can grab one.



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 10:21:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Being a few hexes away from the objectives the AI may already consider itself in a position to defend those objectives. Are these enemy or neutral? I would also move the forces back a few more hexes and see if that entices them to close an take the objective then spread out to defend.


They are really close so that could be it, they are neutral. I did manage to see one move but in went in the opposite direction from the objective so I put it on the other side and now it doesn't move at all.

Screenshot to follow in a few, gotta mark it up.



Mad Russian -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 10:28:22 PM)

We can talk when we have a screen shot. I do lots of things with VL's.

Many times I put a neutral VL in a sides setup zone. Sometimes I even put a unit on it in that setup zone. The reason for that is to have the contested numbers be as close to 45-55 as I can get them.

I normally don't have issues with the AI taking them immediately.

Good Hunting.

MR



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 10:30:50 PM)

Ok, lets see if this takes. Basically the 3 Patrols (boxed in Yellow) are to move to and take the neutral/unclaimed VL locations once the scenario begins but they are just sitting there. I guess I could set the objectives to NATO held but if so, would that affect the victory condition calculations because they start NATO held?

[image]local://upfiles/623/9E34AE9EADEF4CB5AB443A105B30021E.jpg[/image]



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 10:33:14 PM)

And to add, that patrol in the south. He takes off further to the south and there are no VL down there.



Mad Russian -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 11:00:09 PM)

First, put your Soviet units right on the VL's. They will take them immediately when the scenario starts.

Second, take those 5 - 500 point VL's and make them one. Put something bigger than 750 on them if you want the AI to take them. The AI is going to take the two 750 point VL's you have to the north and south of them and ignore them probably. Put something like 1000 or 1500 on that location and it will go get it.

The unit that moves further south is finding a better defensive position for the 750 VL other than sitting right on it. Sooner or later the AI will take it.


How are you playtesting this scenario? From the Soviet or NATO side? DO NOT LET THE AI PLAYTEST FOR YOU!!!!! In other words, no AI vs AI gaming here.

Good Hunting.

MR



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/27/2013 11:33:15 PM)

Testing from both sides, I edit the Scenario, play as NATO, then Soviet. It will be for a NATO campaign and maybe a play from NATO side, stand alone scenario. Playing as the Soviets they move just fine. Slow, maybe because they are Independent Units and HQ are so far away but eventually they move as I direct them. The odd thing is the one in the South where he moves away from the VL. If I put just North of the VL, he heads North. If a hex to the South, he runs off to further to the South. The concept I am try to simulate is the Soviets closing the NATO exit routes as they move into the pocket and NATO having to 'pop' those routes open.



Mad Russian -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/28/2013 2:50:43 AM)

Yes, he is going to the best location to defend the VL from. Depending on where you put him should depend on where he moves to. Try putting him right on the VL and see what happens.

Good Hunting.

MR



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (11/28/2013 3:27:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Yes, he is going to the best location to defend the VL from. Depending on where you put him should depend on where he moves to. Try putting him right on the VL and see what happens.

Yeah, what I'm thinking on this situation is put them on the VL hex and set as reinforcements. I noticed once they grab the hex, they move off to an adjacent wooded or urban hex and change to the defense. At least the majority of the ones did when I tested them. Nice! [;)]



Yankee66 -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/19/2014 8:38:20 PM)

I also encountered a "problem" with waypoints.

I am trying to set up a kind of flanking movement, but the enemy forces are pretty much ignoring the waypoints and going straight for the VL.

Is there a way to circumvent that?


[image]local://upfiles/45780/987692B6A85C4CA5B6BC0A89903EF9EC.jpg[/image]



CapnDarwin -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/19/2014 9:33:53 PM)

Yankee66, can you draw what you want and what they are doing? Another issue I see is no bridges on the map. The AI path may have an issue with the lack of crossing options too. We should be able to figure this out.



cbelva -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/19/2014 9:36:45 PM)

Hey Yankee66--Do you have bridges over the rivers? I don't see any on the map. That could be the first problem. Also, if you want the AI to go in a particular direction, you may want to consider and intermediate victory locations for it to focus on. When the victory location is set far away, the AI has a tendency to look and try different routes.



cbelva -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/19/2014 9:37:42 PM)

Capn D strikes again. How many times have you posted seconds before me.



CapnDarwin -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/19/2014 9:39:51 PM)

[:D]



Yankee66 -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/19/2014 11:12:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Yankee66, can you draw what you want and what they are doing? Another issue I see is no bridges on the map. The AI path may have an issue with the lack of crossing options too. We should be able to figure this out.


Thanks for your reply! :)

I want them to go the route shown in the screenshot. Passing Bessingen, Bisperode and Hastenbeck, going into Afferde.
After placing a bridge and a 250 Point VL at Bisperode, the enemy force indeed seems to follow the waypoints.

Edit:
---
A part of the enemy force goes the south route, as laid out by the way points. Another part still goes straight down the yellow highway 1, right into Afferde. Without any bridges in their path.
---

Another thing that I find peculiar now, though, is that one of my Tank units started firing far too early for my taste.
The LOS calculation under "Show" -> "LOS Area" seems not logical:


[image]local://upfiles/45780/9C7AAC2E077644F683AAF1183EB40777.jpg[/image]



cbelva -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/20/2014 12:54:32 AM)

Without actually being able to inspect the map it looks like the spotting unit has elevation and is looking down on the unit and over the trees.



Yankee66 -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/20/2014 12:21:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cbelva

Without actually being able to inspect the map it looks like the spotting unit has elevation and is loohing down on the unit and over the trees.


Yeah, that was probably just a brain fart on my end. My brain kept on telling me that "more than two forest hexes adjacent to a 1 point higher elevated hex, breaks the LOS of the elevated unit".
Now I am trying to figure out why it told me this. :D

Thanks for your help. It made me snap out of that belief-state. :)



Mad Russian -> RE: Problem w/ AI waypoints (2/20/2014 3:44:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yankee66

quote:

ORIGINAL: cbelva

Without actually being able to inspect the map it looks like the spotting unit has elevation and is loohing down on the unit and over the trees.


Yeah, that was probably just a brain fart on my end. My brain kept on telling me that "more than two forest hexes adjacent to a 1 point higher elevated hex, breaks the LOS of the elevated unit".
Now I am trying to figure out why it told me this. :D

Thanks for your help. It made me snap out of that belief-state. :)



I have the same issue with trees and buildings. I'm always thinking in terms of them blocking LOS.

Let me know how the reconfiguration of your brain goes. I need to try the process you use if it works. [&o]

Good Hunting.

MR



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