RE: Friendly Challenge (Full Version)

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Spidey -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/29/2014 3:02:22 PM)

So I sort of had a go at the Icy challenge, just to get a feel of what it's like, and I did manage to break past the half million point breakmark that I'd hoped for, but with some caveats. I was only playing on very hard difficulty, for one, and I did cheat a tiny bit with the editor, just to find out what was going on after I'd met my 20th pirate faction and still hadn't seen more than three other regular factions. Another diversion is that I used whatever derelicts I found useful to try and contain pirate activity a tiny bit. I wouldn't normally need to do this but with slow research, it took ages for me to match their staying power.

Regarding the game progression, I did the usual stuff early on. It was my first Quameno game so I wasn't quite sure what to expect but they're a decent enough race. Lost my ultra genius early on because my leader sucked and of course my genius scientist decides to convert into yet another really crappy leader. I tried sacking my leader a few more times and each time it cost me a scientist. So yeah, this provided an amazing start.

I tried to so manual scouting to some extent and it worked out okay but I can't keep doing it very long before I lose the will to live. I scouted the huge central cluster I was in but then softened up a bit and semi-automated beyond. Unfortunately the going got extremely tough once I pulled beyond the galactic center.

In a 1400 system universe with abundant independents and Shadows pirates, the indies essentially become pirate food. Abundant indies means abundant income for the pirates, which means many, many pirate ships everywhere and as a consequence even more oppressed indies. And unless you micro the hell out of your scouts, they'll in turn get caught in a cycle of super-dense idiocy where they first try to explore a system, then they notice the 10+ pirate frigates coming at them, then they'll run away a short bit, and then they'll consider themselves safe and go back to work. Meaning the exploration of the system that's clearly full of pirates.

Anyway, this scouting limitation resulted in no WotA during the first 30 years, no system-wide bonus ruins, and no super luxuries. Total bummer, really. I did have a good bit of room, though. And I was lucky enough to stumble over some Slukens early on, which then ended up being my grunt source. I tried doing what I normally do in less pirate-intensive games (I usually have fewer colonies and less indies), teching up while doing nominal military action, but I had some issues getting my economy going.

The civilians were doing fine but with all the hardware needed to fight the pirates and all the troops requires to kill off pirate facilities on the independents that I take over, I just wasn't generating much of a positive cashflow. I built the bazaar, of course, and I could keep the skin on my nose but it never snowballed. Of course, I also only ever managed to grow a couple of moons to the tax-friendly size, so that probably didn't help.

In retrospect, I should've taken the cashflow hit and made a priority out of invading the rival homeworlds I came across. While these wouldn't have a pop size anywhere close to that of my homeworld (since I tax less and built the growth wonder), they'd still have enough pop to make taxation worthwhile.

And something I hadn't picked up on, but corruption is actually a right pain in the backside. I thought I'd be making a fortune off of a Teekan homeworld, but it's located two and a half pirate-infested sectors away from my capital and has a corruption of 60%. Well, had, I should say. I made a push for regional capitals and that really sorted out a lot of problems, though it came much too late to have any impact on my 30 year score.

Something else I'll be doing differently next time is my approach to eliminating pirates. In this game I've thrown everything I had after them for something like 15 years and I could barely make a dent. Even though the pirates don't respawn, there are so many constructors around that blowing up one pirate base means absolutely nothing if you don't occupy the system it was in. In other words, I'm thinking I'll have to colonize-crawl through pirate space instead of just trying to blow up their bases with attack fleets.

I might also be going back to my typical Ackdarians. It means a fairly hefty loss of research bonus but it also means much faster construction speed. They have TurboThrusters for racial tech, which are nice enough, even if they don't offer the benefits of NovaCore reactors, and then there's a maintenance reduction for econ purposes and +20% size allowance on military ships, which is very nice. It means I can stop at component prefabrication and still build size 480 ships, which is just about the size I'll want my destroyers to be anyway.





Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/30/2014 11:03:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
I tried to so manual scouting to some extent and it worked out okay but I can't keep doing it very long before I lose the will to live.

You are absolutely right on the explorer micro. I just can't bring myself back to playing Distant Worlds at the moment for exactly that reason. I find Auto even more frustrating due to the massive difference it makes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
The civilians were doing fine but with all the hardware needed to fight the pirates and all the troops requires to kill off pirate facilities on the independents that I take over, I just wasn't generating much of a positive cashflow. I built the bazaar, of course, and I could keep the skin on my nose but it never snowballed. Of course, I also only ever managed to grow a couple of moons to the tax-friendly size, so that probably didn't help.

On these settings you have to be careful not to invade independents too early given the drain on the economy to defend them. Without Super Luxuries it would have been far later.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
In retrospect, I should've taken the cashflow hit and made a priority out of invading the rival homeworlds I came across. While these wouldn't have a pop size anywhere close to that of my homeworld (since I tax less and built the growth wonder), they'd still have enough pop to make taxation worthwhile.

Absolutely, they are top priority. But again, timing is key, it will crash your economy if you go too early as the army you will need is large ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
And something I hadn't picked up on, but corruption is actually a right pain in the backside. I thought I'd be making a fortune off of a Teekan homeworld, but it's located two and a half pirate-infested sectors away from my capital and has a corruption of 60%. Well, had, I should say. I made a push for regional capitals and that really sorted out a lot of problems, though it came much too late to have any impact on my 30 year score.

It is essential to ensure you have done the research to build regional capitals. I take a just in time approach as there are many other research priorities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
Something else I'll be doing differently next time is my approach to eliminating pirates. In this game I've thrown everything I had after them for something like 15 years and I could barely make a dent. Even though the pirates don't respawn, there are so many constructors around that blowing up one pirate base means absolutely nothing if you don't occupy the system it was in. In other words, I'm thinking I'll have to colonize-crawl through pirate space instead of just trying to blow up their bases with attack fleets.

I've never found a colony crawl is needed. If you work up to having 5 fleets constantly on the attack, you should have no problem clearing the local area, and eventually the whole map. Of course, this means ensuring they have extra fuel cells, and ensure those fleets are strong enough that you don't need to repair that often.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
I might also be going back to my typical Ackdarians. It means a fairly hefty loss of research bonus but it also means much faster construction speed. They have TurboThrusters for racial tech, which are nice enough, even if they don't offer the benefits of NovaCore reactors, and then there's a maintenance reduction for econ purposes and +20% size allowance on military ships, which is very nice. It means I can stop at component prefabrication and still build size 480 ships, which is just about the size I'll want my destroyers to be anyway.

I just can't see how they can be competitive. The research bonus is massive, I'll probably have found Way of the Ancients and a few Super Luxuries before you even have Hyperdrive etc. Faster construction speed means little when you are economically constrained and I always build Bakuras Shipyard at my homeworld anyway.





elanaagain -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/30/2014 2:25:28 PM)

Suggestions for settings for a friendly competition with a small galaxy, few independents, few colonies?




elanaagain -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/31/2014 6:43:07 PM)

New idea for a friendly challenge. idea comes from the idea behind duplicate bridge (Cards). Why don't we all play with the same start game. Someone set up the game, save it before doing anything, right at the start. Upload the save game somewhere in which we all have access. Then we all can tell our stories, share ideas, and enjoy acting in parallel universes. What do you all think?




Hawkeye_BF -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/31/2014 8:14:26 PM)

great idea !!!




Tcby -> RE: Friendly Challenge (1/31/2014 8:27:46 PM)

The 'Game of the Month' series over at the civilization fanatics website is great fun and uses the same idea. Typically they have an initial post with basic details about the map, specific victory conditions everyone will be aiming for etc. Sometimes it is a blind play, where no details of any kind are given except for the starting faction.

Then they make a separate thread for people who have played more than 80-100 turns of the game. There they discuss who they met, what happened, what research paths they chose and why, the areas they are going to prioritize settling...you get the idea. Finally, there's a thread to discuss results of the finished games. The separate threads save people from spoilers and keep things organized.

I think it's a great idea and the participants seem to have fun and learn a lot.




jsolo15 -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/1/2014 1:56:48 PM)

Iceman nice job on the scores. As a newbie to the game. I would love to see a let play video from you.




elanaagain -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/1/2014 3:57:38 PM)

@ tcby Haven't been to the Civ fanatic forums in several years. Sounds like a clever method. Suggestions for set up? I micro everything, so I keep it small and simple, few, if any colonozable worlds, few independents, and pirates don't re spawn. 100 stars in 10x 10 sandbox, or larger. very expensive tech - because I like to actually experience playing at the earlier techs, which dissapear so fast on normal.




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 4:31:04 AM)

I've seen the 'Game of the Month' series at Civilization Fanatics website as well and agree it's a great idea. I would certainly participate but otherwise lack the time to organise. It would be great to get this thread going again after Universe is released.




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 4:36:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire

quote:

These days it's all about how much margin the race is won by ... at least it's fun!


Just be sure to keep this thread going, It is a great addition to the forum, I will give you a run for your money (with rockets on me roller skates and a cybernetic nag) as soon as I am able ... [;)]

Darkspire

Been a while Darkspire ... Universe then?




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 4:38:51 AM)

Canute / elanaagain - any progress with your proposed settings?

If you put up some screenshots I'm sure some of us will join the fun.




Tcby -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 8:10:41 AM)

I've been seriously tempted to join in to see how far I can push myself...and my extreme ship-stealing-for-tech strats. Being able to always break down ships with unique race tech for a research bonus is AMAZING. However I'm concerned that it will kill the game for me, because it's already easy enough. Based on previous experience, I'll probably get better longevity from the game by continuing to roleplay rather than power game. That having been said, my natural instinct is always to power game. These concerns may be alleviated by Universe. A simple balance of weapons tech and a few other variables should reduce the 'exploits' (one example being the unbalanced weapons)that will kill my interest if I abuse them too much.




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 9:25:43 AM)

The game is certainly very easy but the focus here is trying to optimise score in a friendly environment ... I've certainly found it's helped a bit with longevity. So power game away and let us know what you can do within the constraints stated. Or suggest your own settings/rule set and we can compare notes.




Tcby -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 9:45:49 AM)

Gah I just wrote up a post and then navigated to a different page [8|]

The gist of my post was: how do we all feel about starting in the classic age instead? Prewarp is enjoyable from a RP and micro perspective, but far too easy because the AI cannot prioritize its research or growth.

I can't play the game for a couple days because my GPU died, but I'd really like to get the ball rolling on a game of the month equivalent.

Edit: I'm biased - You can't steal race specific tech ships for AGES with a prewarp start. It takes them forever to get hyperdrives let alone anything else [:D]




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 1:17:23 PM)

I'm in. Whatever settings you want Tcby. I'm also likely to be very slow in responding, but if you post it, I'll play it as time allows.




elanaagain -> RE: Friendly Challenge (2/22/2014 2:42:24 PM)

Best ships for kaltor hunting have max shields. And you can include two or three very fast ships (sprint, etc.) designed to keep pulling the Kaltor in a specific direction and then getting away from the kaltore catches it. This way your other ships can keep hitting in from a distance. Like a siege, and dance of death combined into one Klator Hunting party. Works for getting Kaltors out of the way with earlier ship tech. Does require micro managing each ship..




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (3/21/2014 7:04:18 AM)

C'mon I'm bored!




Tcby -> RE: Friendly Challenge (3/21/2014 7:41:54 AM)

I'm going to set up a game for us all to play tonight. I want it to use Haree's extended races because they add far more variation and galactic drama. From every screenshot you've posted Ice, it looks like you play the vanilla game without mods. If you will only play unmodded, let me know asap and I'll set up a vanilla game instead. If anyone else has a strong opinion either way on this issue, hopefully they will see this and comment quickly. Although given time zones there's little chance of that [8|]




Icemania -> RE: Friendly Challenge (3/21/2014 7:46:12 AM)

I'll play with Haree's mod mate and indeed whatever else you like.




Tcby -> RE: Friendly Challenge (3/21/2014 7:52:57 AM)

Great! Game creation in progress.




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