Can someone explain US Entry? (Full Version)

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Majorball68 -> Can someone explain US Entry? (12/1/2013 10:13:58 PM)

It looks simple but having trouble getting my head around how the chit pool works, tension etc. I keep reading over the rules and get more confused [:)]
I understand the basics that actions done by either side can have a negative or positive effect. I know also that there are some must do actions for the US.

If someone could break this down into a package titled "US Entry explained for dummies" it would be appreciated.




paulderynck -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/1/2013 11:05:11 PM)

Oooh, big topic, but I'll try to give you a quick summary. [;)]

Before the US can increase their production - which they can do twice - or embargo the NEI oil - or declare war, they have to achieve certain Entry and Tension Values against the axis. The US gets one chit a turn that it can place in either pool and certain actions the axis take will add chits to the entry pools - GeIt pool if done by the western axis and Japan pool if done by Japan. Likewise certain Allied actions will cause chits to be removed, so overly aggressive French, CW and Russian play can really delay the US entry into the war. Starting in 1942, the US gets 2 chits a turn and if Japan declares war on only the CW or only the Netherlands, the US gets an extra chit a turn for that.

...to be continued...




Majorball68 -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/1/2013 11:19:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Oooh, big topic, but I'll try to give you a quick summary. [;)]

Before the US can increase their production - which they can do twice - or embargo the NEI oil - or declare war, they have to achieve certain Entry and Tension Values against the axis. The US gets one chit a turn that it can place in either pool and certain actions the axis take will add chits to the entry pools - GeIt pool if done by the western axis and Japan pool if done by Japan. Likewise certain Allied actions will cause chits to be removed, so overly aggressive French, CW and Russian play can really delay the US entry into the war. Starting in 1942, the US gets 2 chits a turn and if Japan declares war on only the CW or only the Netherlands, the US gets an extra chit a turn for that.

...to be continued...

Whats it mean when you say have a 1, 2 and a 4 chit in the US entry pool?




Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 12:15:43 AM)

You need a certain amount of entry points to do most of your options. For instance, if you want to say, be able to lend resources to the CW and France, you need a total of 15 entry in your Germany/Italy pool.


You calculate total entry for a theater by 1.5 times the face value of the chits in that pool, + 0.5 times the chits in the other pool.


So, for example, say I've got 3 chits in my Ge/It pool, with a face value of 1, 2 and 4. Against the Japanese, I have a 3 and a 0.


My entry total against Ge/It is (1+2+4)*1.5+(0+3)*.5, for a total of 12. However, my total against Japan is only 8.




Majorball68 -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 12:45:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

You need a certain amount of entry points to do most of your options. For instance, if you want to say, be able to lend resources to the CW and France, you need a total of 15 entry in your Germany/Italy pool.


You calculate total entry for a theater by 1.5 times the face value of the chits in that pool, + 0.5 times the chits in the other pool.


So, for example, say I've got 3 chits in my Ge/It pool, with a face value of 1, 2 and 4. Against the Japanese, I have a 3 and a 0.


My entry total against Ge/It is (1+2+4)*1.5+(0+3)*.5, for a total of 12. However, my total against Japan is only 8.


So in your example above you could not select entry option "15 Resources to western Allies(Ge/It)" as your entry currently only works out to 12, is that correct?

There is US Entry Options and US Entry Actions also so I assume the difference being "Actions" & "Options", correct?

I think I was confusing this part of it.

So in short Actions can be chosen at anytime whereas US Entry Options can only be chosen when US entry reaches a certain level as a result of any actions taken[:)]




Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 2:26:49 AM)

Correct, in my example, the U.S. wouldn't have enough entry to pick resources to western allies. To get there, they'd need 2 points worth of chits in the Ge/It pool, or 6 more face value of chits in the Japan pool to get up there.


And yes, Entry actions are picked during the U.S. entry section of the End-of-turn phase. The U.S. can only pick a limited number of actions per turn, even if they have unlimited entry to work with.


Entry actions on the other hand, are often consequences of general play, things like declaring war on minor countries, or acts involved in the various Soviet border rectification. They can't necessarily be chosen at any time, but they can happen all throughout the turn. Declarations of war happen at the DoW phase, whereas Allied minor support happens during the Peace phase.




Extraneous -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 3:17:58 AM)

The USA has an entry pool and tension pool for:
Germany and Italy these are referred respectively as USA (Ge/It) entry pool and USA (Ge/It) tension pool.
Japan these are referred respectively as USA (Ja) entry pool and USA (Ja) tension pool.

Lets say at the beginning of the game the USA places two chits (value 1 and 2) in the USA (Ge/It) entry pool and one chit (value 2) in the USA (Ja) entry pool.

USA (Ge/It) entry pool = 3
USA (Ja) entry pool = 2

You calculate the entry levels
(USA (Ge/It) entry pool x 1.5) + (USA (Ja) entry pool x 0.5) = USA (Ge/It) entry level.
(USA (Ja) entry pool x 1.5) + (USA (Ge/It) entry pool x 0.5) = USA (Ja) entry level.

This would give the USA player entry levels of:
(3 x 1.5) + (2 x 0.5) or 4.5 + 1 = 5.5 rounded up to a USA (Ge/It) entry level of 6.
(2 x 1.5) + (3 x 0.5) or 3 + 1.5 = 4.5 rounded up to a USA (Ja) entry level of 5.

Lets look at a USA entry options available.

quote:

1. Chinese build aircraft (Ja) (There is a 30% chance a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool)
You must choose this entry option before China can build any aircraft unit.

Minimum USA (Ja) entry level needed to choose this option = 1
Name of the USA entry option = Chinese build aircraft
Entry pool effect of the option = There is a 30% chance a USA (Ja) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ja) tension pool
Description =
You must choose this entry option before China can build any aircraft unit.


4. Intern French CV (either) (There is a 60% chance a USA (Ge/It) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ge/It) tension pool)
You can only choose this entry option if the French CV “Bearn” is on the map and Paris is controlled by the Allies.
You can either:
Remove the French CV from the game and put a random US TRS from the force pool on to the production circle to arrive as reinforcement next turn;
Or put the French CV in the construction pool. It is a US unit for the rest of the game.

Minimum USA (of either Ge/It or Ja) entry level needed to choose this option = 4
Name of the USA entry option = Intern French CV
Entry pool effect of the option = There is a 60% chance a USA (Ge/It) entry pool chit will be moved to the USA (Ge/It) tension pool
Description =
You can either:
Remove the French CV from the game and put a random US TRS from the force pool on to the production circle to arrive as reinforcement next turn;
Or put the French CV in the construction pool. It is a US unit for the rest of the game.


The USA player does both options and the "Chinese build aircraft" entry action doesn't move a chit to the USA (Ja) tension pool and the "Intern French CV" moves a chit (the 2) to the USA (Ge/It) tension pool.

USA (Ge/It) entry pool = 1
USA (Ja) entry pool = 2

This would give the USA player new entry levels of:
(1 x 1.5) + (2 x 0.5) or 1.5 + 1 = 2.5 rounded to to a USA (Ge/It) entry level of 3.
(2 x 1.5) + (1 x 0.5) or 3 + 0.5 = 3.5 rounded up to a USA (Ja) entry level of 4.

You calculate the tension levels
(USA (Ge/It) tension pool x 1.5) + (USA (Ja) tension pool x 0.5) = USA (Ge/It) tension level.
(USA (Ja) tension pool x 1.5) + (USA (Ge/It) tension pool x 0.5) = USA (Ja) tension level.

USA (Ge/It) tension pool is 2.
USA (Ja) tension pool is 0.

This would give the USA tension level a value of:
(2 x 1.5) + (0 x 0.5) or 3 + 0 = a USA (Ge/It) tension level of 3.
(0 x 1.5) + (2 x 0.5) or 0 + 1 = a USA (Ja) tension level of 1.

Note: The chits in the pools are used to calculate the levels. But the levels are what allow the USA to choose entry options and the chance to go to war or not.

Since:
13.3.2 US entry options, option 48 has not been chosen the USA cannot declare war on any minor country
The tension levels are below 5 the USA cannot declare war on Germany/Italy or Japan.
The entry levels are below 25 the USA cannot declare war on Germany/Italy or Japan.
The USA is not at war with Germany or Italy and cannot declare war on Vichy France.


quote:

Orignal: WiFFE-RAW=7.0.pdf
9.4 US entry
The USA can’t declare war on a minor country unless it has reached the US entry level that allows it to do so (see 13.3.2 US entry options, option 48 US may declare war on any minor country).

The US can’t even attempt (see below) to declare war (see 9.2 How to declare war) on an Axis major power if its entry level against that major power is less than 25.

The USA can declare war on Germany and Italy in the same step but it can’t attempt to declare war on Japan in the same step as it attempts to declare war on either of the others.

If it attempts declarations of war against both Germany and Italy in the same step, resolve it as one attempt, rather than one for each. If the attempt succeeds, it would count as 2 declarations for US entry purposes (see 13.3.2 USA entry options).

The USA may declare war on Vichy France (see 17.Vichy France) in any declaration of war step provided the USA is at war with Germany or Italy. This is automatically successful (see US entry action 32 Other Ally declares war on (Ge/It).


Attempting to declare war
Announce your attempt to declare war on a major power. Then, on the “It’s War” table, cross index your entry level against that major power with your tension level against it to find the war number. Now, roll a die:

• If it is less than or equal to the war number, your declaration has succeeded. Turn all your entry and tension markers over so your opponent can verify your result. If you succeed, roll for the declaration of war entry option (see 13.3.2 US entry options).

• If it exceeds the war number, your attempt to declare war fails.
You don’t have to turn any markers over but you have to return both 1 entry marker and 1 tension marker to the common marker pool. Choose them randomly from the pools of the major power you attempted to declare war on. If you have no marker in the entry or tension pool, you may never attempt to declare war on this major power for the rest of the game.

There are modifications to the die roll. All modifiers are cumulative:

When attempting to declare war on Germany and/or Italy;
-2 if the UK has been conquered.

When attempting to declare war on Japan;
-2 if China has been conquered.
-1 if China hasn’t been conquered but a Japanese unit is in China.
+2 if the US fleet is not in Pearl Harbor (see 13.3.2 US entry options, entry option 26).

When attempting to declare war on any Axis major power;
+3 if you have not yet chosen - Pass War Appropriations Bill (see 13.3.2 US entry options, option 34 ).
-1 if the USA is at war with any major power.






Majorball68 -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 4:26:13 AM)

Much appreciated!




paulderynck -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 7:44:48 AM)

I was interrupted in replying so I could go out to Sunday dinner, but Ur_Vile_WEdge and Extraneous did a great job explaining the rest.

Thanks guys! [:)]




Extraneous -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 12:37:21 PM)

The example I gave does not include any other actions taken by the Axis or Allied players such as:

Action 20 where Germany is required to declare war on Poland.
Action 25 where the Commonwealth and France are required to declare war on Germany.
Action 26 where the USSR controls Eastern Poland.

quote:


20. The Axis declares war on: (if Japan declares war place USA entry chit in the USA (Ja) entry pool else place it in the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)
Poland, Spain, Turkey or any American country (1 USA entry chit and a 20% chance of another will be added to the USA entry pool)
Belgium, Finland, Rumania, Sweden or Switzerland (There is a 80% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool)
Other minor (There is a 30% chance of a USA entry chit will be added to the USA entry pool)


25. The CW or France or both declare war on Germany (There is a 90% chance a USA entry chit will be added to the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)
If the CW and France don't declare war on Germany in the same impulse this done separately for both the CW and France.


26. The USSR controls Eastern Poland (There is a 70% chance a USA entry chit will be removed from the USA (Ge/It) entry pool)
The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can only exercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered (see 19.5.1 Eastern Poland).


Action 7 is for Italy declaring war on the Commonwealth or France or both.
Action 9 is for Japan declaring war on the USSR.
Action 22 is for the Commonwealth or France or both declaring war on Italy.
Action 24 is for the Commonwealth or France or both declaring war on Japan.
Action 28 is for the USSR declaring war on Japan.
Action 29 is for the USSR declaring war on Germany or Italy or both
Action 31 is for the USSR declaring war on Minor countries or Vichy France.
Action 32 is for the Commonwealth, France, or the USA declaring war on Minor countries or Vichy France.
Action 33 is for the Japan declaring war on the Commonwealth, France, or Netherlands




paulderynck -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 6:41:24 PM)

Small typo there on #25 - should be: a 90% chance a USA entry chit will be removed from the USA (Ge/It) entry pool




paulderynck -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (12/2/2013 7:19:45 PM)

Looks like for the benefit of Majorball68, I could add some explanation here about the relationship between the Entry and Tension Pools. It's been explained how the totals are calculated, and with MWiF you don't even need to do the calculating - the program does it for you and displays the result, but what is the importance of the totals and how they relate to one another?

First off, you get the chits to move from the Entry pool to the Tension pool by performing certain US Entry Options. The opportunity to do this occurs after you get your chit(s) at the end of each turn. You need certain totals in the Entry Pool before you can perform certain Entry Options. For increasing US production and some other options, you need to have certain totals against both Ge/IT and Japan. And for the production increases, you also need to have a certain amount of Tension against both.

Finally, the US can reach a point where war can be declared in case the axis is taking a strategy of not pre-empting ever increasingly bad (for them) US Entry Options - like the oil embargo - by declaring war on the US first. So the balance between the Entry and Tension totals becomes quite important, especially when you look at the "It's War" chart and see there is a "sweet spot" for each Entry level versus the Tension level. In other words increasing both of them is not always the best. FREX look at Entry numbers of 55-60 versus the Tension numbers below:


[image]local://upfiles/24497/53942C0B82C245D6A27E43D64B55F20E.jpg[/image]

Edit: The numbers in green after the modifications at the bottom are for a 10-sided die roll, so multiply the modified number by 10 and that's your percentage chance for success. Don't try when chances are low because a failure causes removal of chits and your totals go down! - although that might be something you can try if your tension gets too high




Coeur de livre -> RE: Can someone explain US Entry? (1/19/2014 3:09:38 PM)

Thank you for these posts as I have also had a real problem getting my head around US entry.




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