ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (Full Version)

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joeyeti -> ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/4/2013 1:17:50 PM)

Hi folks,

I do wonder - what are the fundamental differences between ATG and DC(CB/WTP)? The both use the same editor (so those principles seem quite equal), however I did not find an article contrasting both game concepts as to their differing and similar attributes...



Tac2i -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/4/2013 2:03:54 PM)

DC games are historical simulations of specific campaigns while ATG main strength is its random game generator. ATG can also be thought of as a war game construction kit. Modders have created 'games' from several time periods. I think a lot of gamers new to ATG just love the random game aspect. Lancer's Enhanced Mod Suite adds even more enjoyment.



joeyeti -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/4/2013 2:49:47 PM)

Thx Roy!

Let's say I would have (roughly) the same scenario in DC and ATP - what differences would there be in terms of gameplay, if that can be contrasted?



Tac2i -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/4/2013 3:16:29 PM)

Let me start off this way:
Peoples Tactics--> Advanced Tactics--> Advanced Tactics Gold--> DC-WTP--> DC-CB

So from Peoples Tactics forward these games have inherited something from its predecessor and been improved upon with each iteration. The DC games were, while using a lot of AT stuff, a departure into strictly historical simulations of specific military campaigns. I own both DC series games but I don't play them much so I'm not be best person to contrast them. There are features in the DC games I hope make it into a future AT3 game (i.e. click on an HQ and all units subordinate to it light up).

re gameplay: in ATG you build your armies via cities and/or factories. You are not only the military commander but also the production minister. There are also RAW (steel) and OIL resource hexes and are vital to your war effort. There are no scheduled reinforcements. There are two basic ways to play ATG: provided/user created scenarios and random games. There are two basic ways to play a random: one town start and at start nations with a basic standing army in place. Random games can be all land or mostly water or somewhere along that scale. There are multiple factors you can select in creating your random map. If the learn some basic editor stuff, you can change up a few things before kicking off the random game.

Both random game types can be played against the AI or with other gamers via PBEM. Because of the unscripted nature of random games, some consider the AI a weak area. That said I believe it does an OK job and has provided me many hours of gaming enjoyment. The highest level of play will be found against other gamers.



ernieschwitz -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/4/2013 3:49:25 PM)

Although DC and ATG use an editor that looks alike, that editor is not completely identical. There are things you can do in the DC editor you cannot do in the ATG editor, while there are also things you cannot do in the DC editor you can do in the ATG editor.

EDIT: Off the top of my head, there are at least these two differences.

1). In ATG an OOB is something the player creates in game, and there is no structure forced apon a player to play in any specific way, regarding an OOB. In DC the OOB is a vital part of the game creation, so the scenario editor has to make it, and define what goes, and what doesn´t.

2). In ATG there is a production system, that is geared towards the player having maximal freedom of action to determine what is produced. Cities and such produce unitcomponents, and PPs. In DC there is no production system as such. You are dealing with PPs granted to you, and supply granted to you. The PPs you have been granted can in some scenarios go towards producing units.




GrumpyMel -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/4/2013 4:30:17 PM)

I own DC-WTB and it's a good game. I've played it and enjoyed it. For me it's really ATG though. The reason can be found in it's versatility. If you look at the ATG Scenario bank, you can quickly see that. With the wealth of existing scenario's and mods you can easly see that what you've got is about 50 (or more) different games, many of which play and feel drasticaly different from ATG vanilla. I realize that DC has recently made an editor available. I haven't had an opportunity to mess with it yet, so I can't speak toward it's versatility in comparison with ATG's (which is really great to work with once you get to know it)....but the size of the existing library for ATG is I think one of it's big selling points for me.

I think both games are worth the money, but if I had to pick one it would be ATG for me. In terms of vanilla game-play ATG basicaly does user controled production, user created units and is a little bit more beer and pretzels in style (though that can change drasticaly to very grognard in user designed scenario's). DC is a bit more grognard with no production, fixed units, reinforcements, TO&E, etc and has a bit more depth to what individual unit leaders do. That's my 2 cents on things.







demyansk -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/5/2013 10:05:29 AM)

Nice comments, where is the best place to get extra scenarios for ATG? Plus installation directions? Thanks



joeyeti -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/5/2013 10:10:24 AM)

http://www.advancedtactics.org/scenariobank.php

Re. ATG itself - watched a video from Das123 on ATG and must say (as the WW2 buff in me) I prefer the DC games, as I am not into random game scenarios. Thx for all the comparisons!



Tac2i -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/5/2013 1:21:47 PM)

Install instructions: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3476183

quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

Nice comments, where is the best place to get extra scenarios for ATG? Plus installation directions? Thanks




Jeffrey H. -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/5/2013 7:42:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Let me start off this way:
Peoples Tactics--> Advanced Tactics--> Advanced Tactics Gold--> DC-WTP--> DC-CB



My own opinion on the development timeline is a bit different.


'......................|--ATG
PT--ATWWII--|
'......................|--DC-WTP--DC-CB

Prolly makes no difference but that's the way I see, (saw) it happening.



lion_of_judah -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/6/2013 2:44:14 PM)

just bought case blue a couple of days ago, enjoying the game but no one has made any scenario's which sucks. I'm really hoping someone will attempt " Battle of Berlin" for case blue, just a thought. :)



Tac2i -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/6/2013 5:36:18 PM)

Yes, I think your diagram is a little more accurate than mine. DC:WtP and ATG were under development at the same time and if memory serves me correctly, WtP may have released first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Let me start off this way:
Peoples Tactics--> Advanced Tactics--> Advanced Tactics Gold--> DC-WTP--> DC-CB



My own opinion on the development timeline is a bit different.


'......................|--ATG
PT--ATWWII--|
'......................|--DC-WTP--DC-CB

Prolly makes no difference but that's the way I see, (saw) it happening.





Jeffrey H. -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/6/2013 7:17:21 PM)

That's the way I recall it being, ATG and DC-WTP were at one time a single development effort, then they became a parallel one, then DC-WTP was first to be released.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/6/2013 8:30:24 PM)

Think if ATG as Empire Deluxe on steroids that's how I see it and DC as more of a direct approach to a specific battle of war. In relation of value I'd rather have ATG as you get more for your money, but, in relation to history you do get a prespecified historical game. It'd be like buying Risk compared to Stalingrad by AH. That's how I see it anyways. I prefer Empire Deluxe myself much easier to play than both.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: ATGold vs Decisive Campaigns...? (12/7/2013 3:19:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Think if ATG as Empire Deluxe on steroids that's how I see it and DC as more of a direct approach to a specific battle of war. In relation of value I'd rather have ATG as you get more for your money, but, in relation to history you do get a prespecified historical game. It'd be like buying Risk compared to Stalingrad by AH. That's how I see it anyways. I prefer Empire Deluxe myself much easier to play than both.


ED had/has a better AI as well. It's going to be available on mobile soon according to the latest from mok over at kbs.



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