I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (Full Version)

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Rocko911 -> I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/5/2013 10:23:32 PM)
I sure hope the push into using STEAM for Panzer Corps doesn't bode for the direction they are going on releases down the road. I absolutely hate steam and no longer by games that only distribute or use it.

Boomer78 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/5/2013 10:54:24 PM)
Matrix would probably one of the last... but I never say never. Plenty of other distributors have said no until the point that they said yes. Steam is now 80% of the PC gaming market, and doesn't look to be slowing down any time soon. It's like a plague that everyone pretends is chocolate ice cream. But whatever, people can do what they want. I'll steer clear of the giant black plague virus that is infecting the world with it's auto patching, online only, stick your finger in the socket, DRM-loving game platform of doom.

aaatoysandmore -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/5/2013 11:32:45 PM)
Hey stardock did it and they were the ones that talked about consumers rights and all that crap. As I've said so many times before it's all about the money publishers and developers don't care about us or what we want or think. Only if it benefits them will they listen and then I'm skeptical. The only good thing about it is that 'most' games end up $5 someday and that means cheap and a bargain for me. [:D]

dutchman55555 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/5/2013 11:35:40 PM)
Wait! What's that I hear? Drinkers of Kool-Aid questioning what's in the cup? I think this is the best news to come out of Matrix in a long while. They will have a platform where over 6 million customers (Steam Stats) visit daily. If even one tenth of a percent buy the game, that's 6000 more sales...again, that's if literally 99.9% of Steam users ignore the game. Matrix needs to carefully examine its price points, as well as its willingness to sell at a discount. Handle this correctly and both the company and the community win; bobble this and the chance will never come again.

NavalNewZ -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/5/2013 11:38:21 PM)
If you look at this thread from February, you will see both Iain and Erik make comments regarding connections with Steam http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3282644&mpage=1&key=steam� My interpretation is that there is no intention of having an exclusive tie to Steam - logically, I don't see why they would need to. Customers can simply choose which distribution method suits them.

Boomer78 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 12:55:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dutchman55555 Wait! What's that I hear? Drinkers of Kool-Aid questioning what's in the cup? I think this is the best news to come out of Matrix in a long while. They will have a platform where over 6 million customers (Steam Stats) visit daily. If even one tenth of a percent buy the game, that's 6000 more sales...again, that's if literally 99.9% of Steam users ignore the game. Matrix needs to carefully examine its price points, as well as its willingness to sell at a discount. Handle this correctly and both the company and the community win; bobble this and the chance will never come again. If they offered Steam and non-Steam release options, sure why not. It would please both sides. But when Steam sticks its head in the tent, you soon find the whole Steam camel inside the tent. Paradox is a good example. They went from no-Steam, to Steam optional, to basically saying 'it's too expensive to manage 2 different release versions, so we're going with just Steam from now on.' Again, Steam doesn't play well with others. It feeds, expands, takes over all other life forms, and moves on to the next organism to absorb. A free market has plenty of room for companies like Valve to use a system like Steamworks. But when Steam BECOMES the market, I have a problem with it. And anyone else should too. But hey, so what... another Steam sale. Time to save 3 bucks on yet another game I'll probably never play. Steam isn't just taking over the gaming world, it has been scientifically proven to kill brain cells. That's why I'm a cautious supporter of the soon to be released SteamOS. Let them go console and take the whole damn Steam community with them. They're lemmings anyway. Let them dive over the cliff of insanity. Just give us back our open source PC gaming world. The one that hasn't been seen in some time.

upen -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 1:15:49 AM)
If the 'open source' PC gaming world is the model Matrix offers, with games costing over $50 while on sale over 4 years after release you can keep it. I've been waiting for Panzer Corps to get greenlit on steam for months and plan to buy it the day it comes out on that platform. Purchasing and managing my games from Matrix is a royal pain compared to steam so I'd prefer to have my games on there anyways. That's even before you get into the fact it feels like Matrix is trying to squeeze every cent it can out of me because I'm a captive market and they (were) the only ones offering the games I'm interested in. I would love to see some of Matrix's 'premium' games come out on other platforms so they'd have to actually compete instead of just gouging their customers.

histgamer -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 1:21:41 AM)
I hate the concept of price gouging. It's not gouging if it's something people are willing to pay for. I might take exception to necessities for life like bread and water but if it's a luxury good which PC games are and people are willing to pay for it it's not gouging. Maybe it's priced higher than a point which will allow them to capture maximum revenue but that doesn't mean it's gouging. quote: ORIGINAL: upen If the 'open source' PC gaming world is the model Matrix offers, with games costing over $50 while on sale over 4 years after release you can keep it. I've been waiting for Panzer Corps to get greenlit on steam for months and plan to buy it the day it comes out on that platform. Purchasing and managing my games from Matrix is a royal pain compared to steam so I'd prefer to have my games on there anyways. That's even before you get into the fact it feels like Matrix is trying to squeeze every cent it can out of me because I'm a captive market and they (were) the only ones offering the games I'm interested in. I would love to see some of Matrix's 'premium' games come out on other platforms so they'd have to actually compete instead of just gouging their customers.

histgamer -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 1:26:03 AM)
Also these are the glory days for steam. In fact the glory days may already be past. I think you will see steams market share remain very very strong but developers will began to become disillusioned with the platform which is rapidly becoming their only viable outlet. You will see the market take on a very mobile feel where only a handful of developers do well and the rest are simply never discovered, I predict that result is probably only 2-3 years away. Not that it's a bad move for Matrix, it's probably a smart move to offer the product there and here.

Missouri_Rebel -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 1:49:30 AM)
One of the irony's here is that Slitherine/Matrix won't take any developer that doesn't sign with them exclusively. quote: Also these are the glory days for steam. In fact the glory days may already be past. I think I could say the same for Matrix. I've been a staunch supporter and defender of them for many years, but there's no denying that this is a different company than it was 5 years ago. I've recently had my eyes opened for me and tbh, after purchasing over 50 of their games, unless they come through with something revolutionary, I'm pretty apathetic to whatever happens to them. They've become a Steam-lite imo.

dutchman55555 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 2:24:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Boomer78 Steam isn't just taking over the gaming world, it has been scientifically proven to kill brain cells. Now that's one scientific study I simply must see. Source? Or, as Reddit would put it, OP will surely deliver...

aaatoysandmore -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 2:27:10 AM)
It has been scientifically analyzed that chimpanzees don't like steam. They prefer a banana over steam. [:D]

dutchman55555 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 2:27:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: upen If the 'open source' PC gaming world is the model Matrix offers, with games costing over $50 while on sale over 4 years after release you can keep it. And to top it off, with Matrix's contraction of their market into a small set of near identical online stores, as well as their extremely tight control on branding and copyright, they're pretty much as far away from "open source" as Steam is.

Crimguy -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 2:31:50 AM)
I do, to some extent, understand Missouri Rebel's sentiment. I feel there has been a lot of rehashing of older titles over the past few years. But, there's also been some really awesome releases over the past few years as well. That being said, as a guy who plays hooky at work every now and then, I love steams ability to install the titles on every computer I own, easily. Steam cloud is fantastic as well. And being able buy both the mac and windows version is like getting a 2 for 1 at times. I don't like the online requirement,but after suffering through Battlefronts activation system, and Starforce before that, I'll take Steam's setup any day. It takes some liberties away, but gives some back that other publishing companies do not.

Crimguy -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 2:33:28 AM)
I should add Matrix current setup is my favorite of all companies. Kudos for that.

dutchman55555 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 2:51:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crimguy I don't like the online requirement,but after suffering through Battlefronts activation system, and Starforce before that, I'll take Steam's setup any day. It takes some liberties away, but gives some back that other publishing companies do not. Yup. No more worrying how many more activations I have, or how many PCs I can install before some magical limit is used up. No more monitoring the hard drive space to see how long until I need to buy a new one. Install a game, play it, delete when I move on, and if I take a fancy to it again DL once more. They use Cloud savefiles, and there's no need to reauthorize something I've owned for years. All automatic. As are updates. Add to that the sheer number of games available for purchase, the constant deep discounts (I bought Train Simulator 2014 and plenty of DLC during the recent sale...I would never have purchased what I did for the wholesale $400, but at $50 I could try it out without being worried if it didn't deliver...it does, btw, so lucky me), their support of Independent developers, their focus on listening to their customers/community, and their constant efforts at upgrades and innovation to the way they sell and the way we buy...if I've drunk any Kool-Aid it's the Valve-flavoured kind. Valve knows online, geek-oriented, gamer-oriented customer service like no one else in the biz. They have massive loyalty because they earn such loyalty.

gradenko2k -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 3:42:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flanyboy Also these are the glory days for steam. In fact the glory days may already be past. I think you will see steams market share remain very very strong but developers will began to become disillusioned with the platform which is rapidly becoming their only viable outlet. You will see the market take on a very mobile feel where only a handful of developers do well and the rest are simply never discovered, I predict that result is probably only 2-3 years away. Not that it's a bad move for Matrix, it's probably a smart move to offer the product there and here. Citation needed? Steam's userbase has only grown year-on-year-on-year, to a peak of about 7 million concurrent users as of last week's Thanksgiving sales. Since then, they've added a Big Picture mode to make Steam play well with controller-based living room gaming, fixed offline mode, Steam Greenlight, Steam Early Access and are trying to break out into the hardware and OS markets. Your claim about how "only a handful of developers do well" doesn't follow either, because Steam's accessibility has been a powerful tool towards the recent revival of the strength of indie developers and small-scale studios. There are literally dozens of indie success stories owing to the power of digital distribution starting from as early as Braid in 2008, and more closely to the wargaming niche in the form of Unity of Command, RUSE/Wargame European Escalation and the Paradox titles. To the point, why would developers be disillusioned about Steam being the "only" platform when the platform has shown itself to be extremely effective?

Boomer78 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 4:00:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dutchman55555 quote: ORIGINAL: Boomer78 Steam isn't just taking over the gaming world, it has been scientifically proven to kill brain cells. Now that's one scientific study I simply must see. Source? Or, as Reddit would put it, OP will surely deliver... It's been scientifically proven that some people just don't understand sarcasm.

histgamer -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 5:15:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000 quote: ORIGINAL: flanyboy Also these are the glory days for steam. In fact the glory days may already be past. I think you will see steams market share remain very very strong but developers will began to become disillusioned with the platform which is rapidly becoming their only viable outlet. You will see the market take on a very mobile feel where only a handful of developers do well and the rest are simply never discovered, I predict that result is probably only 2-3 years away. Not that it's a bad move for Matrix, it's probably a smart move to offer the product there and here. Citation needed? Steam's userbase has only grown year-on-year-on-year, to a peak of about 7 million concurrent users as of last week's Thanksgiving sales. Since then, they've added a Big Picture mode to make Steam play well with controller-based living room gaming, fixed offline mode, Steam Greenlight, Steam Early Access and are trying to break out into the hardware and OS markets. Your claim about how "only a handful of developers do well" doesn't follow either, because Steam's accessibility has been a powerful tool towards the recent revival of the strength of indie developers and small-scale studios. There are literally dozens of indie success stories owing to the power of digital distribution starting from as early as Braid in 2008, and more closely to the wargaming niche in the form of Unity of Command, RUSE/Wargame European Escalation and the Paradox titles. To the point, why would developers be disillusioned about Steam being the "only" platform when the platform has shown itself to be extremely effective? You've missed my point. My point is not that Steam will suffer, far from it, Steam will continue to do very well. However Steam doing well is not the same thing as the industry or the developers doing well. Steams userbase continues to grow but with the easing of the tight control over games that get posted will result in an app store effect. I can cite articles out the ying yang about how mobile developers almost entirely fail with a few exceptions. In terms of marketing it actually costs more now to convince someone to buy a mobile game than it you can charge that customer for. The Apple App Store and Google Play store are doing better than ever but the developers are not. The markets are flooded with games and continue to be flooded with more games. Pricing is on the floor and the majority of developers have struggled there. Matrix may have hit on something with not being afraid to price games at a premium on the mobile market. Mobile developers struggle for two reasons, one many of them are superficial games with little replayablity. And probably the biggest reason there is a huge influx of games so that many decent games and apps never even get found. 60% of mobile apps are never downloaded once from the iPhone App Store. Steam is not yet like that, but over the last year Greenlight has sped up the approval process and with almost all developers flooding into Steam the market will become saturated and flooded. While great games are presently easy to find it wont be so forever. Self published steam titles may well get lost in the muck and it may require a full fledged publisher within a few years to do well even in self publishing markets like steam. This is all hypothetical of course but the lesson of the playstore and app store are pretty stark and at the rate steam is expanding its starting to look more and more like this will happen there also.

Perturabo -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 6:08:34 AM)
There's also GoG and HumbleStore. Both do discounts and are pretty popular. GoG recently started including new games.

histgamer -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 6:21:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo There's also GoG and HumbleStore. Both do discounts and are pretty popular. GoG recently started including new games. GoG's marketing director has actually voiced concern over the ultra discount steam model with regards to the long term health of the industry fwiw. Of course they do deep sales during the holidays but in general their games are not AAA price either.

aaatoysandmore -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 6:45:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Perturabo There's also GoG and HumbleStore. Both do discounts and are pretty popular. GoG recently started including new games. They almost have to sell new games. GOG will never survive selling old titles because they'll reach a climax someday when everybody will have all of them they want. I browse there from time to time but I have all the games from there I see that I want. So, it's a worthless site to me anymore. I want something NEW!

gradenko2k -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 6:51:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore They almost have to sell new games. GOG will never survive selling old titles because they'll reach a climax someday when everybody will have all of them they want. I browse there from time to time but I have all the games from there I see that I want. So, it's a worthless site to me anymore. I want something NEW! The community wishlist for GOG is a long, long, long list, even if you remove all of the games aren't "Good and Old" by definition. They could have made bank selling only such games for years, but it's understandable that they'd also try breaking into contemporary games - in a way, it's good competition since GOG is totally-zero-DRM for people like Boomer78 who still prefer that over Steam's non-intrusive-DRM.

Agathosdaimon -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 7:11:14 AM)
Gog is still missing hundreds of excellent old games - most microprose games for starters - all those excellent sims of the ninieties that worked well to be neither tooo simple nor too complex. If they are willing to polishlords of midnight a little and sell it why not do that for the hundreds of others. But i guess they prob have their hands tied with alot already

Terminus -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 9:13:12 AM)
Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut?

Alchenar -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 10:50:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut? I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit)

gradenko2k -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 12:00:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut? Steam already does not take a cut if you buy from anywhere outside of their client/store page. Assuming Slitherine works with them such that people who buy direct from Slitherine gets a Steam code (they already mentioned wanting to give Steam codes to existing PzC owners), it's entirely possible to end up with a Steam copy of a game without giving Valve a "cut" at all.

dutchman55555 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 12:08:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Boomer78 quote: ORIGINAL: dutchman55555 quote: ORIGINAL: Boomer78 Steam isn't just taking over the gaming world, it has been scientifically proven to kill brain cells. Now that's one scientific study I simply must see. Source? Or, as Reddit would put it, OP will surely deliver... It's been scientifically proven that some people just don't understand sarcasm. Sarcasm? Why, what's that? So your entire argument is basically that because you don't like Steam it's a horrible concept that is destroying gaming as we know it? By that reasoning I declare to you that brussel sprouts are an affront to democracy, and should be banned from dinner tables everywhere.

L�tzow -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 12:09:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alchenar quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut? I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit) Yeah, but unlike PanzerCorps the vast majority of Matrix products doesn't really fit to Steam portfolio and Matrix would cannibalize themselves if titles as WiF or WitP AE are offered with a 75% discount every now and then.

dutchman55555 -> RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future (12/6/2013 12:20:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alchenar quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut? I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit) Umm, say what? "Profit margin is the percentage of selling price that turned into profit." (Profit margin) Units sold doesn't enter into it, bro.

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