MWif and Where I'm at... (Full Version)

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jzardos -> MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 6:26:41 AM)

Let's be real for a moment. Been trying to play NetPlay with friend (that I duped into buying MWiF), we can't even get to end of turn 1. Probably spent 20 hrs already on it. Many crashes, certain autosaves don't work (general ones worst luck), usually finally get one to reload for us. Most of our bugs have been documented, few have been fixed so far. New ones keep coming up..

So here's where I'm at

- very frustrated about sinking $100 into game that can't be played NetPlay. Not sure solitaire works better, but didn't buy game to play solitaire. I'm ok with waiting for AI, that's not my beef.

- have friend upset with me, because I told him it would be fun

- as far as bugs, some people are willing to do all the extra postings and be 'beta testers'. That's just not something I have time for. Will report stuff as I can and if not already reported. But didn't buy game to beta test it [:(]

- as much as I want to see MWiF be a big hit and a game changer for board games making into into the computer world, just feel this game was rushed when it didn't have to be rushed. Most of us have already been waiting 5-10 years, so what was another year to get it right? Don't ever think it's a good idea to release stuff to consumers when it's know that many bugs exist. Heck, I can't image beta testers didn't see the issues my friend and I found. Not like we did anything special or unusual. Too many normal track phases just didn't work.

- so what now? Very tempted to just shelf game until version 2.0 comes out. Not sure what other people's motivation is when purchasing a 'game', but for me it's about enjoyment and fun. I really believe MWiF will be plenty of hours of fun and re-playability, but it's just not there yet for me in its current state.

- I really feel bad for Steve and others that have worked so hard on this project. If they had just been given more resources and some more time before the release. Not their fault for the bad taste in people's mouths on this game's current short-comings. I blame Matrix for the pressure and any others that were responsible for forcing this game out when it's obvious it wasn't ready. Shame on you...

[:-][:-][:-][:-]

NOTE: I do give MWiF and A+ for great documentation books and tutorials. Above and beyond anything I ever experienced in purchased game software.



markb50k -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 1:33:17 PM)

Solitaire is not without its annoyances but it is very playable.

Simple idea why not just start a solitaire game and just email the save game back and forth. Other than seeing chit values you lose no real functionality.

At the very least it is an IMO acceptable workaround while net play is worked on

Thank you



gravyhair -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 2:35:02 PM)

To be fair, they issued a disclaimer about NetPlay before selling the game. At the same time, your points are well-taken. Let me also compliment you on producing one of the greatest quotes ever offered on this forum ... "just feel this game was rushed when it didn't have to rushed". [:D] For those of us who've been around here awhile, lurking and otherwise, you just made my day. [&o]



Igbe -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 2:44:22 PM)

They did make it clear that there were some issues with netplay...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3460159

Its also posted on the product page before you buy the product. I am not thrilled that it's taking so long to fix.



jzardos -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 4:12:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igbe

They did make it clear that there were some issues with netplay...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3460159

Its also posted on the product page before you buy the product. I am not thrilled that it's taking so long to fix.



Think you are fooling yourself if you believe some game stopper bugs don't appear in solitaire too. I did try and play some solitaire before I convinced my friend to play NetPlay. Did run into bugs and game crashes in solitaire .

So are you saying I'm the only one who has experienced bugs/crashes with playing MWiF playing solitaire? If so, not sure you're living in reality. Understand people fee loyalty to MWiF and don't want to see it tarnished, but IMO the release of MWiF was premature. Paradox did the same thing, on a much larger scale, with their release of HOI way back. That was so traumatic an experience for me, that to this date I will never buy another Paradox game.

Maybe several people here bought MWiF to play solitaire, but that's just not my thing. A part of the reason I play board/computer games is to be social. Although I have spend > 100 hrs playing WitE vs AI, but that's somewhat of an exception because WitE is the best computer war game ever released. It's AI is amazing too. I digress. Point is that I bought this game a month ago and I can't get through turn one on NetPlay. Guess I just didn't manage my expectations appropriately, which I will take some blame for.

Disclaimer: I have utmost respect for Steve and crew for have fortitude and persistence to make MWiF a reality, but I just can't play the game in it's current state. Very excited with NetPlay/game works as expected.



shaddock -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 4:23:20 PM)

Hey jzardos, your not alone. My partner and I have yet to make it to the end of a turn in netplay. We still keep trying since its fun. But the continued bugs and crashes are indeed frustrating.
I still have high hopes the game will eventually work well enough. It just takes time. Lots of lines of code to go through. And a change in one line can mess up 10s of thousands of other lines of code. Nature of the beast.



warspite1 -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 6:40:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Let's be real for a moment. Been trying to play NetPlay with friend (that I duped into buying MWiF), we can't even get to end of turn 1. Probably spent 20 hrs already on it. Many crashes, certain autosaves don't work (general ones worst luck), usually finally get one to reload for us. Most of our bugs have been documented, few have been fixed so far. New ones keep coming up..

So here's where I'm at

- very frustrated about sinking $100 into game that can't be played NetPlay. Not sure solitaire works better, but didn't buy game to play solitaire. I'm ok with waiting for AI, that's not my beef.

- have friend upset with me, because I told him it would be fun

- as far as bugs, some people are willing to do all the extra postings and be 'beta testers'. That's just not something I have time for. Will report stuff as I can and if not already reported. But didn't buy game to beta test it [:(]

- as much as I want to see MWiF be a big hit and a game changer for board games making into into the computer world, just feel this game was rushed when it didn't have to be rushed. Most of us have already been waiting 5-10 years, so what was another year to get it right? Don't ever think it's a good idea to release stuff to consumers when it's know that many bugs exist. Heck, I can't image beta testers didn't see the issues my friend and I found. Not like we did anything special or unusual. Too many normal track phases just didn't work.

- so what now? Very tempted to just shelf game until version 2.0 comes out. Not sure what other people's motivation is when purchasing a 'game', but for me it's about enjoyment and fun. I really believe MWiF will be plenty of hours of fun and re-playability, but it's just not there yet for me in its current state.

- I really feel bad for Steve and others that have worked so hard on this project. If they had just been given more resources and some more time before the release. Not their fault for the bad taste in people's mouths on this game's current short-comings. I blame Matrix for the pressure and any others that were responsible for forcing this game out when it's obvious it wasn't ready. Shame on you...

[:-][:-][:-][:-]

NOTE: I do give MWiF and A+ for great documentation books and tutorials. Above and beyond anything I ever experienced in purchased game software.
warspite1

Hey Jzardos, I have no major problem with the majority of what you wrote - you've paid your money and are frustrated. No problem.

One issue though. Yours is the second post I've seen criticising the Beta Testers. That is Manifestly unfair. Firstly, the Beta Testers are unpaid volunteers. Secondly, can you imagine what it must have been like for those that did beta test (and had never played the boardgame before?) and C) They have absolutely no say in whether the ultimate decision to launch is made or not.



Igbe -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 6:49:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igbe

They did make it clear that there were some issues with netplay...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3460159

Its also posted on the product page before you buy the product. I am not thrilled that it's taking so long to fix.



Think you are fooling yourself if you believe some game stopper bugs don't appear in solitaire too. I did try and play some solitaire before I convinced my friend to play NetPlay. Did run into bugs and game crashes in solitaire .

So are you saying I'm the only one who has experienced bugs/crashes with playing MWiF playing solitaire? If so, not sure you're living in reality. Understand people fee loyalty to MWiF and don't want to see it tarnished, but IMO the release of MWiF was premature. Paradox did the same thing, on a much larger scale, with their release of HOI way back. That was so traumatic an experience for me, that to this date I will never buy another Paradox game.

Maybe several people here bought MWiF to play solitaire, but that's just not my thing. A part of the reason I play board/computer games is to be social. Although I have spend > 100 hrs playing WitE vs AI, but that's somewhat of an exception because WitE is the best computer war game ever released. It's AI is amazing too. I digress. Point is that I bought this game a month ago and I can't get through turn one on NetPlay. Guess I just didn't manage my expectations appropriately, which I will take some blame for.

Disclaimer: I have utmost respect for Steve and crew for have fortitude and persistence to make MWiF a reality, but I just can't play the game in it's current state. Very excited with NetPlay/game works as expected.


No doubt issues exist in solitaire. I was only addressing the Netplay part of your first post. Currently, not playing much mwif because of some of the issues. Also because Red Storm is getting most of my game time.



jzardos -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 6:49:56 PM)

warspite1,

I'm sorry if my post(s) were perceived as criticizing the beta-testers. That's not how I see it at all. In fact I give the beta-testers credit for their time sacrifices in testing this massive project. I'm disappointed and a little angered that the actual release of this product was not delayed and put through a few more cycles of testing. The testers are not the ones (in this case) that decided on the release date of Nov 8.

But what is done is done, can't take back the release that already happened. So I guess no point in crying over split milk. Just wanted to state my case and how I felt about MWiF, that is part of the purpose of this forum.

What is most important now is for Matrix and the developers in trying to correct the issues as prompt as possible. At the same time, which is not always easy, making sure regression bugs don't start to appear.



warspite1 -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 6:51:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

warspite1,

I'm sorry if my post(s) were perceived as criticizing the beta-testers. That not how I see it at all. In fact I give the beta-testers credit for their time sacrifices in testing this massive project. I'm disappointed and a little angered that the actual release of this product was not delayed and put through a few more cycles of testing. The testers are not the ones (in this case) that decided on the release date of Nov 8.

But what is done is done, can't take back the release that already happened. So I guess no point in crying over split milk. Just wanted to state my case and how I felt about MWiF, that is part of the purpose of this forum.

What is most important now is for Matrix and the developers to trying and correct the issues as prompt as possible. At the same time, which is not always easy, making sure regression bugs don't start to appear.
warspite1

Okay - no problem [:)]



paulderynck -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 6:58:54 PM)

For all anyone knows, the release date could have been a contractual obligation. For all anyone knows, the mandatory physical component could have been a contractual obligation.

These forums can fulfill many purposes, but they have no ability to examine the contractual agreements between the various parties that created the ability for WiF to become a computer implemented game in the first place.



abulbulian -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 9:05:57 PM)

True. I also recall a website, https://www.healthcare.gov, that was under contractual obligations to go live before it was actually ready. Already know some of those devs could be out of work in the near future. If not already.



paulderynck -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 9:39:36 PM)

Maybe Shannon by himself could have done a better job, but unfortunately, he was already committed to MWiF, a slightly more complicated undertaking. [;)]



abulbulian -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 10:21:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Maybe Shannon by himself could have done a better job, but unfortunately, he was already committed to MWiF, a slightly more complicated undertaking. [;)]


lol, yeah agreed



abulbulian -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 10:25:55 PM)

jzardos,
Understand your frustration. Yes, at this point we must 'roll-foward' with the release and can't really 'roll-back'. There are a good deal of us that want to see this MWiF project be a major success. Might take a little time because of the exponential complication factor, but I think the right people are committed to seeing it through. Still believe you and your friend will consider this well spent money down the road and have many years of enjoyment playing MWiF.



Dabrion -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 10:28:31 PM)

I would take a refund, 20 cents to the dollars..

p.s.: Or you could buy me a beer! (this option is only accepted if you ship it around the globe at least once..)



CrusssDaddy -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 10:38:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

For all anyone knows, the release date could have been a contractual obligation. For all anyone knows, the mandatory physical component could have been a contractual obligation.

These forums can fulfill many purposes, but they have no ability to examine the contractual agreements between the various parties that created the ability for WiF to become a computer implemented game in the first place.


This is a clumsy attempt by paulderynck to invalidate an earnest and genuine discussion, and perhaps preemptively derail future ones. Ignore it.



Dabrion -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 10:47:33 PM)

+1, he tries that on wifdiscussion as well.



lomyrin -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 11:01:11 PM)

Dabrion, you ship me your game and I will pay you 20 cents on the dollar for it.



Dabrion -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 11:14:25 PM)

You could ask the Help Desk if such a thing is possible. (shipping would be your expense)



paulderynck -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/13/2013 11:35:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

For all anyone knows, the release date could have been a contractual obligation. For all anyone knows, the mandatory physical component could have been a contractual obligation.

These forums can fulfill many purposes, but they have no ability to examine the contractual agreements between the various parties that created the ability for WiF to become a computer implemented game in the first place.


This is a clumsy attempt by paulderynck to invalidate an earnest and genuine discussion, and perhaps preemptively derail future ones. Ignore it.

Ah yes, the second last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.



paulderynck -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 2:34:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

+1, he tries that on wifdiscussion as well.

Unfortunately there you cannot resort to the green dot process as I have done here.



brian brian -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 4:57:58 AM)

I guess all we can do is wait, as we have always done. I have yet to see anyone suggest a viable alternate way to get this game done. 100s of players would love to hear one.

I have been looking forward to playing this for a really long time. I work away from home for 3/4 or more of each year, and have been too busy for my usual summer game, or WiFCon, all of the last 3 summers.

If I can't send German oil to Italy or order a CW resource from one place to another, I guess I'm still waiting. A lot of bugs have been squashed, and that is encouraging. But a key part of WWII was Major Powers aiding each other, and if that doesn't work yet, I'm not real interested in trying a game of Global War, or playing without an Oil rule. Hopefully I will at least get to try the Barbarossa scenario against a live opponent sometime soon...???



jesperpehrson -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 9:25:45 AM)

We wait in patience. This is not just a game, it is THE game. At least we have come this far, at least now we can help out. All those years we just waited, not knowing if there would ever be a game.
We can help out by testing the game and we can help out by being constructive.

KBO!



warspite1 -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 9:39:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

We wait in patience. This is not just a game, it is THE game. At least we have come this far, at least now we can help out. All those years we just waited, not knowing if there would ever be a game.
We can help out by testing the game and we can help out by being constructive.

KBO!
warspite1

+1 I couldn't have put it better myself.



Empire101 -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 1:57:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

We wait in patience. This is not just a game, it is THE game. At least we have come this far, at least now we can help out. All those years we just waited, not knowing if there would ever be a game.
We can help out by testing the game and we can help out by being constructive.

KBO!


+2

Well said capitan[:)]



Toby42 -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 2:25:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

You could ask the Help Desk if such a thing is possible. (shipping would be your expense)


Sure it is. I've traded games, and given games away! It's mine and I can do what I want with it. I destroy all copies of it that I have. The only benefit that I see from having it registered is being able to get beta patches?



lomyrin -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 3:48:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

You could ask the Help Desk if such a thing is possible. (shipping would be your expense)


With you in Germany and me in California the shipping cost of something like $ 50 unfortunately makes the deal not practical. Perhaps you can find a deal with someone in Europe ?



SeaMonkey -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 5:22:15 PM)

"The Game", that seems to change, like everything else. I'm not a WiFer, never played, the same could be said back in 2002 in reference to SC, but I am an aficionado of the grand strategy genre of WW2 games and so I have monitored MWiF since its early incarnations. I continue to observe, but it seems that many of my early conclusions(having familiarized myself with the RAW) have come to pass as this development unfolds.

I appreciate everyones committment, especially Steve's, but again, I'm afraid the original vision of simulating the board game has brought about a set of unintended consequences that may be monumental to overcome. Is it not apparent to everyone that the intracacies and the sequence of play(opposing players interactions) that makes WiF so unique is its undoing as a computer game? Simply, isn't the whole foundation for processing information is to make things abit more convenient for human beings?

WiF may be a great game to play in the tradition of board games, ie. face to face or solitaire, but not adapting it to the present state of code based routines as represented by computer languages is frankly, to me, missing the substance of today's technological achievements. I will continue to observe and hopefully the base code from this game and all the endeavors of the participants will be applied to the new CWiF of the future in the tradition of the board game, but with a logical sequence of play consistent with Net Play, PBEM, or TCEP....or whatever the newest interactive dialogue is at the time.

Until then, "The Game" is SC!




Dabrion -> RE: MWif and Where I'm at... (12/14/2013 6:38:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

You could ask the Help Desk if such a thing is possible. (shipping would be your expense)


With you in Germany and me in California the shipping cost of something like $ 50 unfortunately makes the deal not practical. Perhaps you can find a deal with someone in Europe ?


Perhaps.. any takers?



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