New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (Full Version)

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Timotheus -> New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/13/2013 11:09:10 PM)

Start of the game: do you build one of each, or build multiple, like 2Xenergy research, 2Xhigh tech, 1Xweapon research?

What about other planets?

Or is it that we are only supposed to build one research station tech branch per planet (so 3 research stations per each colony)?



Elrohir525 -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 12:13:03 AM)

The most important point to remember is that the total research capacity of all of your labs (weapons+energy+high-tech combined) should just slightly exceed your total empire research potential (TERP). The number of separate research stations really doesn't matter--it's the capacity of all of your lab components empire-wide that does. You shouldn't exceed your total empire research potential by too much, or you'll just have idle labs costing you maintenance payments.

I've read that many of our fellow-players like to build multiple research stations at their homewolds right at the start, but I don't see the point. I simply re-design my homeworld spaceport with as many labs as I need to meet my TERP, and retrofit as necessary. The only real reason to build research stations outside of the homeworld spaceport is to take advantage of the research bounses at special locations, and only the highest bonus in each category (weapons, energy, or HT) will have any effect. For these remote stations, I usually design them with fairly strong defenses, but only a single lab component. You only need one lab to get the full research bonus (with your best scientist in each category assigned to his/her corresponding remote station). This approach limits your exposure to pirate or other empire attacks on your research infrastructure, while most of your scientific efforts are focused on the relative safety of your homeworld.

Hope that's helpful--enjoy the game! :)



Timotheus -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 12:52:31 AM)

"The most important point to remember is that the total research capacity of all of your labs (weapons+energy+high-tech combined) should just slightly exceed your total empire research potential (TERP). The number of separate research stations really doesn't matter--it's the capacity of all of your lab components empire-wide that does. You shouldn't exceed your total empire research potential by too much, or you'll just have idle labs costing you maintenance payments."

Yes, I just learned this, and I was playing this game wrong. More labs <> more research, but more labs = more maintenance cost.

[X(]

This is not a normal 4X design here, kids...

"I've read that many of our fellow-players like to build multiple research stations at their home-wolds right at the start, but I don't see the point. I simply re-design my homeworld spaceport with as many labs as I need to meet my TERP, and retrofit as necessary. The only real reason to build research stations outside of the homeworld spaceport is to take advantage of the research bounses at special locations, and only the highest bonus in each category (weapons, energy, or HT) will have any effect."

Mind blown.

Interrogative:
Basically have as many labs (mix and match - I can go 80% energy or even 100% energy) so that they add up to the TERP, or slightly pass it?

Congratulatory:
You are one smart cookie.



hardcoregamer -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 1:08:39 AM)

So you can't increase research speed by just building more and more stations? Are you kidding me? I have like 17 research stations in my home system and 3 of them are actually huge. I built those for nothing then?



Elrohir525 -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 1:48:31 AM)

@Timotheus
quote:

Basically have as many labs (mix and match - I can go 80% energy or even 100% energy) so that they add up to the TERP, or slightly pass it?

That's right. This thread in the War Room http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2988238&mpage=1&key=? gives a nice explanation of what outcome you'll get if the sum of your total research capacities exceeds your TERP.
quote:

You are one smart cookie.

[:D] You're too kind!

@hardcoregamer
quote:

So you can't increase research speed by just building more and more stations? Are you kidding me? I have like 17 research stations in my home system and 3 of them are actually huge. I built those for nothing then?

Unfortunately, you've probably seriously exceeded your empire's TERP, yes. As it says in the Galactopedia: "As your empire grows research speed will also continue to increase in line with the strategic value of your empire. However there is a natural limit which, when reached, will cause the rate of increase in your research speed to drop off considerably. Once your empire’s colonies reach a certain strategic value your research speed will not increase appreciably. This means that very large empires do not have a great advantage over medium-sized empires when it comes to research speed and access to new technologies."
Just chalk it up to the learning curve and enjoy! [;)]



Darkspire -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 4:33:32 AM)

I never build them, gave up when I started on Shadows. I now just use a starbase equipped with the three labs, x10 of each at final revision of design, makes more sense as the characters can have all three skills and it means that all there skill levels can be added to the total (well the highest level in a field scientist anyway). They also serve as a defense base, a refuel point and a place for folks to go barn dancing on a Saturday night, I just add another when the total nears overflow, most i ever build of them in a game is 4, tops 6 dependent on how lucky I am with characters. I do not use them for research locations either, no need, as I just have one base that all the scientists are on marked Research WEH +, the others as Research WEH. Only had it happen once but yes you can lose that base to an explosion from agents, but its worth the risk.

Darkspire



Canute0 -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 6:01:31 AM)

I do the same like Darkspire, i redesign my home spaceport with 10 lab of each kind. Since you can retrofit the spaceport this happen much more faster then to build new stations, and the construction ship are free to build mining stations.
Later when i got at last 2 more high populated colonies i build there similar Spaceports like at the homeplanet.

Research station with 1 lab i just build to claim the research bonus from various locations. They don't need to be good defended since pirates mosttimes ignore them.



Darkspire -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 6:18:51 AM)

quote:

i redesign my home spaceport with 10 lab of each kind


That was why I moved them, the default spaceport designs have them fitted and the research stations are single field use, the spaceports are costly and more than one at a location is not really viable, not even sure you can?, so they are not really able to add more to increase the research level as and when you need to, same goes for the research station, also one field of research, the starbase class seemed to be the design that fitted in the middle, I get a value of 200 on each field at game start using a starbase, I play prewarp, so its the WEH starbase, a small spaceport and a constructor to be built first, the 200 is soon exceeded so a second and third are added in geo-orbit as soon as I can, with four built around the homeworld (800 total) I am setup for increases in research for a while and can concentrate on other matters, they are armed the same as a defensive base so they also deal with pirates.

Darkspire



Timotheus -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 9:10:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcoregamer

So you can't increase research speed by just building more and more stations? Are you kidding me? I have like 17 research stations in my home system and 3 of them are actually huge. I built those for nothing then?


Bro group hug!

See, this is what I mean, there are NO decent guides on the web for this game (Apology mode engaged - a forum post which you have to search out and is not stickied is not a guide, no matter how good and well written it is).


hardcore dude - reread what the smart cookie guy wrote.

You do not need research stations at all.

Simply make an uber fortress large port with shields, and maxos, and concussion missiles, and lots and lots of labs... well, not that many, do some simple math how many).

Make sure to stick the energy collector(s) in there!


So why do we even have star labs?

Why, to grab the yummy sciency locations which give us those preciousss, preciouss bonuses.

Click on the yellow turd symbol on the extreme left side of the monitor display.

[;)]



Spidey -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 2:44:06 PM)

You can actually take things a step further than building a ton of labs in your large space ports. Just redesign your mining stations manually and throw labs on them. You'll get a lot more labs than you'll ever need and who gets to pay for the maintenance? You don't. So it's about as win/win as anything can get.



Plant -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 3:36:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcoregamer

So you can't increase research speed by just building more and more stations? Are you kidding me? I have like 17 research stations in my home system and 3 of them are actually huge. I built those for nothing then?

Yes you built those for nothing.



Darkspire -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 5:37:43 PM)

quote:

Yes you built those for nothing.


That was constructive.

Darkspire



Fenrisfil -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/14/2013 10:29:51 PM)

I'd just add a few notes to what has been said.

You only get the highest bonus for each tech type and there isn't a separation between scientist and location bonus. On top of that, scientists only provide a bonus for a tech type if there is at least two labs present of that type at their station. Fortunately the number of labs at a location has no effect on their bonus (providing there is at least two), so if you put 2 each of the other lab type on a research station design then any scientist at the station can provide all their bonuses. That means you rarely have to sacrifice scientists skill bonuses for the sake of a location bonus.

Indeed since your research labs are safer at your home base, the only reason to build on research locations is to make use of the bonus, which likely would mean putting scientists there too. It actually makes sense for your research labs to all be the same with 2 of each type.

It is worth mentioning of course that risk and redundancy play a part too. Mostly because pirates do seem to really love blowing up research stations.



Elrohir525 -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/15/2013 1:35:42 AM)

@Spidey
Very interesting idea to put your labs on public-sector bases! Can you assign scientists to them if you do that?

@Fenrisfil
I think you make a good point about adding other lab types to a research station at a bonus site if you have only a few scientists and they have multiple research skills--good idea!

Regarding the number of labs needed at a special research site, however, you're mistaken. I've just double-checked my current game, and all you need to receive the full bonus is a single lab component on the station (at least as high as a 29% bonus).


I was also wondering if anyone's tried using research ships instead of bases. The galactopedia says the labs will work as long as the ship's stationary, so as long as the system you park in is relatively safe and you have plenty of energy collectors on the ship, it sounds like an intriguing option. And can you get the bonuses from special locations if the ship is orbiting one?



Spidey -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/15/2013 2:24:01 AM)

In all fairness, it wasn't actually my idea. I saw the suggestion in here, I think it was from Icemania, and then promptly took note of it. I don't know if you can assign scientists to such bases (or rather if they actually deliver their bonuses) and I'm not sure I'd want to either, since mines get busted every now and again, and it would suck Teekan backside to have your super-scientist blow up because some pirates got lucky. The point of throwing labs on mining stations is really to avoid upkeep on a whole lot of lab facilities as well as making your research base a lot more robust.

Consider that if you have one or two giant research stations then they essentially become key pieces of infrastructure that must not fail. If they go down, your research rate disappears and you'll have to invest a whole lot of resources to rebuild. If you've got one of each lab on every mining base out there, you'll always have an enjoyably high capacity, and then all you have to worry about is designing a local research fortress on one of each type of research bonuses.

By the way, labs are not the only thing you can add to civilian base designs. Consider a long range scanner as well, just to have a good look at what's happening around you. This also provides a nice bit of early warning when it comes to inbound fleets and it makes it much easier to trace pirates as well. And the private sector doesn't seem to mind paying the upkeep either.



Icemania -> RE: New guy: How many research stations do you build per planet? (12/15/2013 3:40:04 AM)

With respect to the commentary on the lack of guidance for the game, I completely agree. It's absolutely ridiculous that the developer does not put more information in the galactopedia for new players. That said, I also like games that do not spoon feed solutions to players. To get the balance right the galactopedia should describe the mechanic and how it works ... but no more. With the mechanic described the solution then depends on various factors (e.g. what scientists you have, what bonus locations are available, stage of the game, time to build, capacity to defend etc) which we can then focus on discussing in the forum, rather than the base mechanic.

At the start of the game I immediately build a multidisciplinary Research Station on my homeworld before I build a spaceport. I only build a few labs on it to start then upgrade until I'm at full research. Only then do I build a spaceport. The idea here is to get research going ASAP, otherwise you have to wait until all those other spaceport components are built (e.g. construction yards etc).

I generally only build one research station as it's quicker than building a base for each research field and place all scientists in that one base so the bonuses stack (in diminishing proportion for each additional scientists in that field). This isn't always the case, however, as in my current game my home system has +25% bonus location which is more than what my Scientists currently provide, so I also have a base in that location.

Later in the game once I can defend research stations I'll build a single research station per field at the best research location and station the associated scientists in that field at that station. However, I only do this when the total research bonus in that field is increased as a result, which depends on what scientists you have, and what bonus locations are available.




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