Carrier Planes (Full Version)

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jhdeerslayer -> Carrier Planes (12/15/2013 11:07:35 AM)

If carrier planes are based on land, why can't they fly during the Naval Air segment like other planes?



Hokum -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/15/2013 12:12:45 PM)

Carrier planes were abused and the rules changed, now the only mission they can perform if not on a CV at sea is rebasing.



wolf14455 -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/15/2013 12:49:04 PM)

Hehe abused, I or we who play the game should be the people who decide whats historicly accurate for our game play, IMHO. I remember when I played the boardgame back in the day, I constantly transported carrier planes to islands as the Jap to strenghten my areas. But maybee thats just me.



alexvand -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/15/2013 1:12:56 PM)

That's precisely the abuse he is describing. Those rules were changed by the original game designers, not MWiF.

All those extra CvP flying as fighters and bombers and costing much less than real fighters and bombers did unbalance the game.



wolf14455 -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/15/2013 1:19:24 PM)

Ok, I didnt think of the cost, true it wa cheaper. Good call then.



paulderynck -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/15/2013 5:46:18 PM)

Another horrid abuse was using all the terrible CW CVPs from early in the game to react into out of the way sea zones and require subs to overcome a need for 4 points of surprise in order to attack CPs.



jhdeerslayer -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 1:35:35 PM)

OK got it. It seems unless you expect some carriers coming on board soon that will need filling (I'm playing Fall & Decline) maybe best to just disband these extra carrier planes and get the pilots. Or keep around to replace lost ones. I assume this is what people do?



Moltke71 -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 2:39:35 PM)

Actually, Guadalcanal was saved in '42 by transferring a carrier group to the island.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 4:03:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck

Actually, Guadalcanal was saved in '42 by transferring a carrier group to the island.

The one thing that WIF doesn't simulate is that carriers were commonly used to transport land-based airplanes to destinations. For instance, the British were constantly doing that to reinforce Malta. In WIF you need to use a naval transport to get short ranged air units overseas.



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 4:24:46 PM)


And I could have sworn (although I don't have my books in front of me) that the Japanese used their carrier planes extensively as just aircraft for fighting and bombing in China.



wworld7 -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 4:34:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge


And I could have sworn (although I don't have my books in front of me) that the Japanese used their carrier planes extensively as just aircraft for fighting and bombing in China.

This is true.

The Japanese Army did its own thing in China and the Japanese Navy did its own thing in China.

The Army and Navy did NOT work well together, which in the end helped the Allies.



jjdenver -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 4:51:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck
Actually, Guadalcanal was saved in '42 by transferring a carrier group to the island.


Good point, but I think when you think about it in terms of WiF-Zen (i.e. how does the game play overall from a big picture POV) - using CVP's to fly from land really was silly when it was allowed in WIF in the past. Each land air counter I think (from memory) represents 500 active aircraft and a CVP represents 50 or 100(?) so practically speaking should not have a big impact on the game. Having swarms of JP IJN CVP's in China has a big effect. Also many of the very short ranged CVP's can smother sea zones and subs in particular if allowed to fly land missions. I'm sure this argument can go point-counterpoint forever but I've played the boardgame since 1986 and I have had experience with CVP's flying missions from land and it really has a big effect on the game. So I wouldn't join any lobby to change this rule.....



jzardos -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 6:39:18 PM)

So in a global game should Japan always be getting some naval air as suggested in player manual? Or should they being focusing some of their production on LBA? Maybe later LBA .. 41 onward?
What do WiF do?



jzardos -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 6:40:13 PM)

Oh and pilots, probably need to get pilots as priority to?



michaelbaldur -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 7:49:31 PM)


when you fight in china, use LBA ... but when Usa Is coming make sure you have carrier plane on all carriers.

you will need 10-15 pilots for that. and the same number of your best carrier planes.

remember to build the 6 size carrier planes, if you plan to upgrade to the biggest carrier ..



there is no point in building carriers, if you have no carrier planes to place on them



michaelbaldur -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 7:53:58 PM)


or play without the carrier option .. much easer



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 9:16:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

So in a global game should Japan always be getting some naval air as suggested in player manual? Or should they being focusing some of their production on LBA? Maybe later LBA .. 41 onward?
What do WiF do?

One key item for Japan to worry about is scheduling.

If you want a strong navy against the US, you need to start building some of those units right away. But you won't need to build carrier air units until a long time later. Pilots should be built to arrive when the air units do. But if you draw some terrible air units, you can just let them sit in the reserve pool and build fewer pilots.

You will want more AMPH and TRS units, but they don't have to be build immediately because they take less than 2 years to complete.

Land units and marines should get the highest priority because they can be useful in China immediately.

In other words, lay out a general plan for what Japan wants to build over the first 2+ years. You won't always have as many build points as you would like, but having a plan is much better than winging it each time the Production form appears.



michaelbaldur -> RE: Carrier Planes (12/16/2013 10:04:50 PM)


and Japan have some of the best nav2 ... the are overall the best bombers Japan can build.

so empty that pool



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