Amphib Landings

Amphib Landings (Full Version)

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ChadS -> Amphib Landings (12/18/2013 1:13:51 AM)
I'm still trying to learn the game's systems, and want to know if my amphib landing in Jan '42 is typical for the US. I decided to send some troops to Mili, and accompanied them with 2 CAs and 5 DDs. A carrier force was also nearby. The Amphib group plowed right into the island, seemingly in the middle of the day. Almost all of the ships took some sort of damage, including 2 or 3 of the APs gaining "heavy fires." The report said there were 287 Coastal Guns (or perhaps shells?) fired. At the start of the next turn, the ships were heading back to Pearl, though were still in the Mili hex. I clicked them to unload troops/cargo. During the next turn, they did just that (but took more damage). I had also split off the CAs and 2 DDs to make a Bombardment TF, and that seemed to work fine, too. The island quickly fell. When the island fell, it appeared that there were only 176 Japanese troops there. Ultimately, I'm curious if I did this roughly correctly? I'm also curious if there's a way to prevent the heavy damage to the APs before (or when) they reach the target hex. I feel like I missed something. I know that "Fast Transport" TFs will attempt to arrive at night. I figured that Amphibs would do something similar. Thanks very much!

Terminus -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/18/2013 1:29:03 AM)
Opposed Allied amphibious landings this early in the game are going to take an ass-ton of damage; doctrine and equipment weren't there yet. Send Bombardment TF's first, but also put some cruisers and destroyers into your Amphib TF; they'll suppress coastal guns (BTW, the 287 you saw is number of shots fired).

Terminus -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/18/2013 1:30:23 AM)
Also, just to make sure, don't use xAPs for amphibious landings. These were converted civilian ships, meant to offload by gangway at a pier. They can be put into an Amphib TF, but will take much much MUCH longer to unload, and be super vulnerable.

Quixote -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/18/2013 1:44:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChadS I'm still trying to learn the game's systems, and want to know if my amphib landing in Jan '42 is typical for the US. There's really no such thing as a "typical" Allied landing in January 1942 - usually the Allies are still a little busy falling back.[:)] I decided to send some troops to Mili, and accompanied them with 2 CAs and 5 DDs. A carrier force was also nearby. The Amphib group plowed right into the island, seemingly in the middle of the day. Almost all of the ships took some sort of damage, including 2 or 3 of the APs gaining "heavy fires." The report said there were 287 Coastal Guns (or perhaps shells?) fired. Mili has a very good Coastal Defense unit. It's guns will usually put holes into anything smaller than a CA during an invasion if it hasn't been dealt with first. The best way to combat this is to put heavy warships (think BBs or CAs with several DDs) into the landing TF itself. A pre-invasion bombardment by BBs isn't a bad idea either. Nor is a pre-invasion strike by your carrier aircraft. At the start of the next turn, the ships were heading back to Pearl, though were still in the Mili hex. I clicked them to unload troops/cargo. During the next turn, they did just that (but took more damage). I had also split off the CAs and 2 DDs to make a Bombardment TF, and that seemed to work fine, too. The island quickly fell. When the island fell, it appeared that there were only 176 Japanese troops there. This CD unit only has 9AV. You'll pay a substantial price for getting ashore (as you found out), but once you're there, the island should fall easily as long as your entire invasion force didn't sink before landing the troops (and provided Mili wasn't reinforced by another Japnaese unit or two before you invaded. Ultimately, I'm curious if I did this roughly correctly? I'm also curious if there's a way to prevent the heavy damage to the APs before (or when) they reach the target hex. I feel like I missed something. I know that "Fast Transport" TFs will attempt to arrive at night. I figured that Amphibs would do something similar. Your amphibs will hit the beach in whatever phase they reach the beach. If you aren't in a hurry (like you aren't expecting the KB to come and crush your entire invasion, or it's late war and you have plenty of air cover) it's a good idea to position your whole force either one hex away from an atoll, or in the same hex as an atoll (but set not to land) before finally issuing orders to land, allowing the force maximum time to offload troops and supplies before conducting the inevitable shock attack. Thanks very much!

ChadS -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/18/2013 4:58:27 AM)
Very good, thanks folks! I realize that going on the offensive in January of '42 is both ahistorical, and fairly foolish. But, I wanted to get a feel for how this would work in the future. I didn't lose any ships (yet--Pearl's quite a distance off) and the force I sent was pretty good sized, so I am going to chalk this up as a marginal victory for now. I had sent a carrier force there about 10 days earlier, which successfully sunk several Japanese AKs and a few APs in the islands. I don't know if they were headed to Mili or not, but I realized I didn't face as strong of a force as may have been possible. Good to know that occupying the hex but not landing keeps them out of coastal battery range. I can see how that would be beneficial, and I'll try that in the future. Incidentally, was reading a little recently, and saw that the last time a coastal battery sank a warship was on Dec. 8, 1941 at Wake Island. Little bit of trivia, just in case I'm not the last one to have learned this truth.... :) I've been watching the coastal fire in game to see if any ships get sunk. So far, none!

jmalter -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/19/2013 6:57:08 AM)
hi ChadS, There are 4 'amphib unload' segments in each turn (2 at night & 2 during daylight). You must set your PhibTF to take advantage of all 4, to get the majority of your LCU & supply unloaded before the land move/combat phase. This is especially important when invading an atoll or small island! Ideally, you'll be parked in the target hex, or in an adjacent sea-hex, at the end of D-1, under 'do not unload' orders, w/ CAP fighters protecting your phib shipping. The next day, you run in at full speed to unload. A BombardmentTF won't shoot until the end of the Night turn, so you must include shooters in your PhibTF to suppress the enemy's defensive guns, anything w/ 5" MA or better will help. If you didn't capture the target on D-day, or didn't get all your stuff unloaded, you're gonna need add'l help. If you're wise, you've brought along a SurfTF of cruisers/destroyers - swap them into your PhibTF to replace its ammo-expended shooters for the next unload sequence. Atoll/small-island invasions are a special case. Likely you've landed troops far in excess of the atoll's 6K capacity. After the land-combat phase, a lot of your supply will be lost, due to exceeding the allowable capacity. You've got to have a 2nd-wave PhibTF loaded w/ supply - swap these ships into your original PhibTF to give your LCUs enough supply to fight the 2nd day.

paolorossi -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/19/2013 3:58:43 PM)
generally speaking, it's better to hasve one single TF with all the units you want to desembark, or more than 1 TFs? another question: it's better to use minimal ships or it's better to have more ships, each with less soldiers upon? Thanks Paolo

John Lansford -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/19/2013 8:58:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: teseo tesei generally speaking, it's better to hasve one single TF with all the units you want to desembark, or more than 1 TFs? another question: it's better to use minimal ships or it's better to have more ships, each with less soldiers upon? Thanks Paolo The more ships you have in an Amphibious TF, the faster they'll unload the troops. IOW, if you have the bare minimum ships needed to load a division, they'll take forever to unload during an invasion. If you have twice the needed ships, they'll unload much faster. Why is this important? For two reasons. One, you want as many men on the island in as short a period of time to overwhelm the defenders. Second, those ships won't unload any supply points for the onshore troops until they've unloaded the troops. That's why it is vitally important to have an Amphib TF loaded with nothing but supply accompanying the invasion TF. They will unload supply for the troops while the invasion TF unloads the men and equipment. Also, you want to use the AKA/APA ship types in invasion TF's. They unload the troops/equipment in one turn thanks to all the small boats they carry. Next best ship type are the AP/AK's and the worst ones are the xAP/xAK types. The LST/LCI landing craft will also unload what they're carrying in one turn, so they are great to use in an invasion TF as well.

paolorossi -> RE: Amphib Landings (12/20/2013 2:51:03 PM)
Great!!!!! Many thanks for all these useful info I'll try to get practice Paolo

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