A Time To Dance (Full Version)

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Bipman -> A Time To Dance (12/21/2013 2:38:49 PM)

I keep getting my backside kicked in 'A Time To Dance' and realised my tactics may not be up to scratch [:)] Can anyone recommend a good book (or books) on the subject ?

Bipman




loki100 -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/21/2013 4:32:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stephen_gray98

I keep getting my backside kicked in 'A Time To Dance' and realised my tactics may not be up to scratch [:)] Can anyone recommend a good book (or books) on the subject ?

Bipman



Which side?

With the Soviets the key is to forget WW2 and lead with the tanks not the infantry. Make sure the Rifle Regiment is held back and operate the two tank regiments in support of each other.

With NATO, you are not going to be able to blow the central bridges so what you need is to screen the ones you can blow and expect the major offensive in the middle (but be careful, this AI likes to shift its plans depending on your actions). Beyond that, you want to fight at range, so I'd avoid hold/assault orders as those deny the AI the capacity to react in turn (left to itself it will try to keep your tanks out of the effective range for the T-80s).

Equally with NATO you can plan more around the emerging situation - try to keep a reserve, keep some of your artillery on CB and remember you can often retake what you lose earlier on. You have a cavalry/scout formation so its all about delay and extracting a toll (in time and losses) from the Soviets.

Its also a seriously addictive scenario.




Bipman -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/21/2013 7:42:28 PM)

As NATO. Thanks for the tips ! I started the scenario thinking it would be easy but no way ! As you say, a very addictive scenario.

Bipman




Mad Russian -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/21/2013 8:17:39 PM)

As NATO, be afraid. Be very afraid.

Because if you are afraid you are cautious.

If you're not cautious the Soviets will eat you for lunch. Oh, right, you already found out about that.

I put units on screen until I get to the point that I don't want them to have something. Then I put the ACR on hold.

The big equalizer is missing here, there is no US artillery to pull your fat from the fire. That means you have to win by maneuver. Hit and run. Keep costing them units. Set up kill zones near Victory Locations(VL) and catch the Russians as they move toward it.

Good Hunting.

MR




cbelva -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/21/2013 8:28:51 PM)

When fighting the Soviets as NATO (especially as the Ami) distance is your friend. You guns are more accurate at a distance than the Soviets. If you allow the Soviets to get close you are in trouble.




Bipman -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/22/2013 6:11:43 AM)

Thanks everyone ! I'll give it a go and see if I can win for a change !

Bipman




LittleDogmaOne -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/22/2013 4:33:18 PM)

To give you some idea

Yellow star: Blow bridge successfully
Black Star: Blow bridge failed, and abandoned

Red arrow line: Soviet
Green arrow line: NATO

Contested battle, but NATO made them to pay heavily.



[image]local://upfiles/28097/EEC0EDD9C5744E7BB30A7A6268FEA00D.jpg[/image]




LittleDogmaOne -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/22/2013 4:35:20 PM)

You can do it, and try to duplicate my battle plan or modify it to suit your need or goal : ) Good luck, commander.


* Your force has claimed 7 Recce, 44 Tank, 36 APC, 27 Inf, 6 SP AT, 10 HQ and 9 AD enemy subunits.

* Remaining force tally -
Active: 38 Recce, 15 Tank, 1 APC, 8 HQ, 3 AD and 3 SP Arty.
Fallen out: 1 Recce, 5 Tank and 1 APC.
Destroyed: 1 Recce and 3 Tank.




Bipman -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/22/2013 5:16:59 PM)

I had the Soviet forces go the same way but I sent my recce units out to see where they were and lost a lot more tanks. There doesn't seem any way of engaging the enemy tanks at a decent distance or am I missing something ? When I re-tried today I got a better result when I stopped running in like the cavalry [:D] so am slowly getting there.

Bipman




Mad Russian -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/22/2013 7:07:51 PM)

Rushing forward where angels fear to tread teaches you in rapid fashion why angels feared to thread there! [:D]

Good Hunting.

MR




ultradave -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/27/2013 12:31:19 AM)

It's hard to get any range in this one without giving up too may points. I managed a Contested Battle, with about 43% of my force remaining, and 47% victory points. Two companies of Soviet tanks appeared in the last 15 minutes and assaulted Worbach destroying 2 sections of Bradleys defending it, or I probably would have done better. It's a tough defense. And with no artillery besides the 4.2" mortars, it makes it hard to break up the Soviet onslaught.

Notice the large number of little grave markers in the center and also around the river crossing with the HMMVs sitting on it.



[image]local://upfiles/45914/1CB7F88745FD42BBA4BDD8A0561C94B0.jpg[/image]




CapnDarwin -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/27/2013 3:50:14 AM)

Smoke can be your friend. [;)]




Mad Russian -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/27/2013 4:05:39 AM)

When you post a reply that you want to add a screen shot in go to the POST REPLY tab and open that. It's in orange and just to the upper left of the main fast reply window you probably typed your post in.

To add a screen shot after you have already posted, select edit. When the edit screen opens go to the bottom where it says, "No change in picture embedding" and select the pull down screen from the arrow on the right. Then select "Embed Picture in Post". Once you've done that put your cursor over the Upload More Files to the left of that menu box. Click on it and then go to your hard drive to select the jpg "ONLY" on your hard drive and attach it.

Once you do it one time it's second nature.

Good Hunting.

MR




ultradave -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/27/2013 8:33:38 PM)

It worked! Thanks much. Now my words make a little more sense.




CapnDarwin -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/27/2013 10:32:57 PM)

ultradave, you need to blow some of the bridges to halt the advance or you will get swarmed as you did. You can usually get 3 of them and then work to deny crossing of the open one in the middle until they push across or bridge it themselves.




ultradave -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/28/2013 12:34:36 AM)

Don't I know it. I need to try again. When I did try to blow bridges it gave me times for after the scenario ended. (like 1615)


++++++++++++
Update - I'm an idiot. It was telling me the hex number, but when I read something like "blow bridge between 1615..." I read that as time of day.

You'd think I'd do better since back in the day I trained every day for this to happen ( ex-CPT US Army )

I'm playing it again and the only bridge I blew was the southern most one at the curve of the river. (The one you can start next to.)




Bipman -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/28/2013 12:44:22 PM)

At long last I didn't completely lose. Thanks for all the ideas guys and the Warsaw Pact lost 70% of their
forces. Just need to get the hang of getting VP's back now.

Bipman


[image]local://upfiles/36518/4CA7E1BF4F52483B856984B826BF1649.jpg[/image]




ultradave -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/28/2013 2:07:42 PM)

Much better result the next time. Only the 2 middle bridges standing and all the Russians bottled up on that bridgehead, down to 30%, so game over. Still just a contested battle, although with one more turn I would have retaken another bridge crossing VP hex (could have walked in).

My forces this time took many less casualties, down to 67%.

On to the next challenge.




Mad Russian -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/28/2013 2:16:44 PM)

Apparently, A Time To Dance has turned out to be a really good training scenario.

As you say, on to the next challenge. Each scenario adds another layer to the game.

Good Hunting.

MR




ultradave -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/29/2013 1:17:19 AM)

Yes, it's a great challenge for the US side. As the 11ACR, you don't have the firepower to stop the advance, but you can give it quite a bloody nose. If you play it carefully.

I think it points out the uncertainty of what would happen in the opening hours. As much as we trained and trained and simulated and gamed it out back then, you would only get one real chance. Get it wrong and it would look like the first time I played this one. :-)




jenrick -> RE: A Time To Dance (1/11/2014 2:05:48 AM)

For this scenario in particular, dropping the correct bridges makes all the difference. The Soviets will attack primarily at the three bridges located to the north of Bad Neustadt. You can drop the bridge at the south side of Bad Neustadt on the start of the game with a recon unit placed there in setup, that limits the Soviet axis of advance to one of the other three bridges. While there are two more bridge, one at Oberstreu and one to the West of Bad Neustadt these are too far out of the way for the Soviet plan. They want to roll straight through Bad Neustadt not detour around the German country side.

Now which bridge to drop next, and how to have your units survive long enough to do it is the important question. The bridge in Heustreu is probably going to be the last bridge the Soviets get to on their primary axis of advance. They have minefields and abatis to cross to get there, and the terrain is urban favoring the defender. This bridge is probably the last one to worry about.

The bridge located on the east side of Bad Neustadt and the bridge immediately north of that one going to be to the ones the Soviets go for. The good news is that you can over watch the approaches to both bridges from the same chunk of terrain, the tree line beginning at 1415 and running NE. Having your Bradley platoon post up in a HOLD stance on this tree line will let them work over any approaching vehicles with their cannons and missiles. The normal maneuver scheme for the WP is to lead with the recon elements which the Bradley can easily handle.

So which bridge do you blow with your one order on T1? The one on the east side of Bad Neustadt. You will be receiving reinforcements consisting of mech infantry among other things. Bad Neustadts urban terrain is infantry terrain. Putting your mech inf company in Hold in Bad Neustadts will more then adequately address any attempt by the WP to force a crossing via bridge building or amphibious vehicles.

The bridge to the NE of Bad Neustadts will then be the primary axis of approach for the WP. This is both good and bad news. There is no terrain handy for a unit to hole up in while trying to blow the bridge. On the other hand the approach to the bridge and bridgehead on the NATO side is a killing field. The first order of business is to get a heavy blocking force into position to prevent the WP from establishing a bridgehead with their lighter recon elements. A M1A1 platoon in Hold located in the tree line works nicely.

Hex 1614 also provides the opportunity for overwatch of the crossing located in Heustreu just in case. However any of the three wooded hexes will work. The terrain provides very good cover, and beautiful arcs of fire. Get tanks into all three as soon as possible in Hold, and let them go to work. Some of your tanks will die, expect it. However the value of all of your tanks is only ~3300. If you don't stop the WP from getting across the river, they will else make that up in VP's. You can afford to loose all your tanks IF you can hold all the VP locations.

Use the mech infantry company you get to fortify Bad Neustadts to prevent a bridging attempt, or a crossing by amphibious units. All of your tanks goes to the tree line. If possible drop smoke in the elevation 1 hexes in front of the tree line. The WP tanks can't engage you through it, but you can certainly engage them.

Done correctly you will stop the WP cold with only moderate losses, leading to a tactical success. Be aggressive about getting into the tree line to stop the Soviets as soon as possible so they can't mass at close range.

-Jenrick





CiniKo -> RE: A Time To Dance (1/13/2014 10:50:10 AM)

Here my screens,

but how to win this scenario?! Game always stops with advice 70%...bla..bla..[X(][X(][X(]

LuCa

anw.very nice scenario!



[image]local://upfiles/46765/7F755AA8A2334C61B767CFF84BEB10B7.jpg[/image]




Enigma6584 -> RE: A Time To Dance (1/13/2014 5:58:22 PM)

Why is a technical question about how the game works in an AAR thread?




HowieWowie -> RE: A Time To Dance (11/26/2014 10:41:00 PM)

The first go at this scenario resulted in a crushing defeat for NATO. Then I read this thread and the bridge blowing tactic sounded like a way to stem the flow of the Red forces across the river. Its easy to blow the bridge at Bad Neusdat. I've tried a handful of times to blow the other bridges. I've never been able to blow more than the one bridge at Bad Neusdat. Looking at this thread it would seem that there have been a few updates since the earlier posts a year ago. I'm guessing something might have changed to make this more difficult than it already was. Has anyone succeeded in blowing 3 bridges with 2.06??




Koesj -> RE: A Time To Dance (11/28/2014 4:27:44 AM)

Yeah this scenario seems way harder now for NATO. Was EW hindrance ever this asymmetrical too?

e: blowing the bridges outside the one in Bad Neustadt you can put a starting unit right next to is totally impossible. By 5am (turn 1 + half an hour prep time) there's battalions of tanks on the other side already.

e2: oh... there are two versions of the scenario [:o]




HowieWowie -> RE: A Time To Dance (11/28/2014 10:42:14 AM)

Hey Koesj I didn't realize there were two versions! I'll take a look later and see if I can blow more than one bridge as the original poster was able to do. Otherwise the Reds steamroller over Nato.




Tim James -> RE: A Time To Dance (11/30/2014 4:31:34 AM)

The second version of the scenario is the one you should play as Soviets. In that one, all the bridges are magically blown before the scenario begins!

If anyone has any NATO tips for this with the new aggressive AI, I'm very curious. I feel like there might be a learning experience here, but it's beyond me right now. Maybe just concentrate on the 3000 VP hex west of Bad Neustadt?




budd -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/1/2014 12:25:19 AM)

yea its a lot harder as nato now. I played it 7 times now, i have only blown the one bridge you start on, tried doing the others, you just don't make it and just lose your units. I just tried moving around and going for the 3000 Vp but got killed by arty and all the t-80U's. Bringing your abrahams around to the 3000 VP is hard to coordinate and takes a bit to get in a good position. I don't even try for the other bridges now. it's flat out murder, especially with limited orders. I would be interested in anybody's strategy for this scenario under 2.06, i've only managed various levels of defeat[;)]




CapnDarwin -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/1/2014 2:04:00 AM)

I take down two bridges in Bad Neustadt(BN) (east first, then move the unit to blow the south bridge). I get my initial forces on the ridgeline overlooking the road from Heustreu to BN. Try to kill as many bad guys as I can and fill in with new forces as they arrive. I get armour on the ridge and mech scout pressing into Heustreu. Use the Mortar to smoke the ridge and scouts and get extra cover to your forces. I start taking that third and remaining wave of reinforcements down St2292 and get into BN to hold it the best I can and keep forces bottled up in the valley pocket. With any luck the north attack gets blunted enough to allow you to counter attack into the 2 VPs at H and at the valley bridge. Having good weather helps. Rain is a killer and you will want to rethink the fight if visibility is poor. Remember to keep you HQs on the move too. The Soviets have some heavy arty in tow.




budd -> RE: A Time To Dance (12/1/2014 2:54:59 AM)

did you run that plan under 2.07? That plan could work IF you get that second bridge, which to this point i have not been able to do. I start a unit on the bridge in BN and that one blows just fine. I move a unit hasty to the second BN bridge and give the order to blow, but between giving the order and the next action time[usually around 30 minutes, which isn't unreasonable given demo prep time] the enemy takes me out every time, and then the ridge isn't as crucial. On limited orders you usually get 1 order,i've got 2 orders once, so your second turn your giving the blow bridge order and thats it. By that time your order cycle is increasing upwards and there inside your loop[they spend the whole game inside your loop].I tried a pretty close variation of that plan early on. You can do some damage from the ridge but if that second bridge is intact they get around you, damn AI [:D] .... I will try again...and again.




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