Working the 75mm AT swap problem (Full Version)

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rmonical -> Working the 75mm AT swap problem (12/31/2013 8:52:31 PM)

I'm seeing the same problem I mentioned some months ago after AI vs AI testing in my game with Hooooper.

I went ahead and made the 75mm Pak 40 AT gun a heavy AT gun type (same as the 88 AT Gun). I just started an AI vs. AI test. Does anyone know of any obvious problems with this idea?

The Stalingrad to Berlin scenario starts with 2100 Pak 40s. These are likely a mix of Pak 97/38s (not represented in the game) and Pak 40s. There were 2800 Pak 97/38 and 2100 Pak 40s produced in 1942. The former started production earlier. In any event, I don't see how the game engine gets there.

I noticed there are a lot of slots for element types. Would it be possible to add a Medium AT gun element type without a significant programming change?

Currently, there are three: Light (28 MM); AT Gun (37, 50, and 75 MM) and Heavy (88 MM). The broad range of effectiveness of types in the middle certainly argues for another category.



Denniss -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (12/31/2013 9:04:10 PM)

AFAIR the Hvy ATG require a tad more support. Using different classes for 37 and 75mm ATG would speed-up replacement by a large margin. If 50mm stays at the same class with 37mm this would avoid blocking the 75mm in 44/45.

Some time ago I tested the 37mm as light AT and it was kicked-out very fast.



rmonical -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (1/2/2014 10:12:03 PM)

Ran the test with just changing the 75mm to heavy AT. The 75mm are produced, but the AI kicks out the 50mm guns and keeps the 75mm.

I removed the upgrade path from 37mm to the 75mm and am running it again.



gingerbread -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (1/2/2014 11:08:34 PM)

It's far from certain the the code understands that say, a light AT and a medium AT are related in an AT family. If that is the case, you will have difficulties when changing a gun slot if this also changes the type from say, light AT to medium AT. This could be why the 50mm are kicked out.

The concept of AT as a family is self explanatory to us, but not necessarily to the code. It has to be told in some way.



rmonical -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (1/3/2014 11:52:18 PM)

It looks like changing the 75MM to a heavy AT gun and removing the upgrade from 37MM to 75MM is the way to go. In this AI-vs-AItest of the '42 scenario we are up to 2/27/43. The 37mm guns are only still in the units that still have them in their TOE (security, mountain, motorized). The buildup of 50mm guns in the pool reflects the fact that most divisions are at TOE on these guns. These will eventually be used up because the '44 division still has the 50mm guns. The 75mm guns are still running below TOE but are widely distributed and building up.



[image]local://upfiles/38006/33A32CBDCE0F461A84E874A3C6782C8B.jpg[/image]



rmonical -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (1/4/2014 11:46:26 PM)

This is the situation as of July 43. This looks fine. This was a modified '42 scenario run in AI vs AI mode. Axis side is doing well

[image]local://upfiles/38006/860304B372214AE299B73C84CDFF6775.jpg[/image]



shane56 -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (1/12/2014 2:49:53 AM)

G'Day,
Checking the 41-45 campaign scenario the 37to75 upgrade has already been removed..
Checking the 75mm AT gun it has no factory sites set up for it when it starts production in'42 in the 41to45 campaign, so how does it get produced if it has no factory sites ?
Thanks



rmonical -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (1/25/2014 10:43:38 PM)

The 75 MM is an "A" style unit produced on demand. The swap bug problem documented here causes them not to be built. This is a critically important weapon system that has no replacement for the Germans.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3318460&mpage=1&key=swap�



rmonical -> RE: Working the 75mm AT swap problem (2/17/2014 10:47:12 PM)

As I get into 1944, I see that the Germans get a lot of AT battalions filled with 88mm AT guns - the heavy AT gun. If the designers go with the scenario fix of making the 75mm AT gun heavy, then this at battalions might get 75 instead of 88s. This is less bad than the current system where the 75s just do not get deployed.

What would be nice is if we had AT gun categories as follows
Heavy AT Gun- German 88; Allied ?; Soviet ?
AT Gun; German 75/76; Soviet 76; British 17 pounder
Medium AT Gun; German 50; British 6 pounder; US 57; Soviet 45; Various 47s.
Light AT; German 37; US 37; British 2 pounder; French 28;

Currently, the French 28 is alone in the Light AT gun class and the 37, 50, and 75 are all in the AT Gun class. There is no Medium AT gun.



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