Price (Full Version)

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JudgeDredd -> Price (1/23/2014 7:04:18 AM)

Yep - it had to be brought up.

But in fact I'm not really asking what the price is going to be - my question is more generic and aimed at Matrix

Can I ask a question...

You know full well that pricing is one of your hottest topics when you release a game. You know it often kicks off a **** storm. It very often mars the release of a game, with very venomous posts coming from newcomers who have been waiting for a game for some time, hard core fans of your site and people who even lurk around, pinching a game here and there.

I know you have a lot to do in the run up to release but still, you know release day will kick you in the arse when you announce the price.

Why oh why oh why do you not release the price of a game say a month before release? Surely you can look at it earlier than you currently do?

I suggest this because I hate to see your newly released game forum, which should be full of praise and adulation, go down the toilet because you decided it was in the best interests of "god alone knows" to spring a price on the unsuspecting public. I suggest this because I would hope that, in the run up to release, I would think that's when your main focus on a game may be and therefore attract more traffic, both new and old and therefore you could get the inevitable price threads and all the venom that's spat into them out the way for release.

Sure there might be a few clingers that still want to damage the game/company because of the thread - but it's entirely possible most will have moved on within the month. Possible (not FACT).

It must be extremely disheartening for yourselves to see a new release be tarnished in this way - but what I don't get is it happens almost every single time....particularly for DLC or more expensive games...and yet you do it time and again.

I particularly feel terrible for the developers who must feel like their credibility is shrinking in the eyes of the public as their game gets ripped apart - and not because it's a bad game or a bugged game - but something totally different - a price tag.

So that's the question Why do you not release the price of a game earlier to avoid what you know is coming on release day - totally destroying the forums from the off (and it does show the community up)

**The question is for Matrix by the way - I have no need for speculative arguments because I already have my own speculative opinions about it. You can of course post if you wish...I don't own the boards nor do I police them.

*edited to add*
I forgot to add that I am not demanding an answer and of course Matrix can choose not to do so. That's totally cool. I was just wondering what the reason was for holding off until release and if the option to enlighten people early had crossed their minds but been dismissed because?



wodin -> RE: Price (1/23/2014 11:24:12 AM)

JD I expect a similar price to Conflict of heroes.. being similar sort of games and boardgame conversions.



JudgeDredd -> RE: Price (1/23/2014 12:10:22 PM)

lol Wodin - I think you need to read my post [;)]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Price (1/23/2014 12:57:05 PM)

Judge,

It's pretty simple. When a game does not exist yet, in other words it's not available to the public, there can be no educated discussion of the game's value between us and the community. At this point, we've played it and know it but you have not. Once it's released, we all have access to it and you can discuss the game not just with us, but also with those in the community who are playing it and you'll have all the pre-release promotional information to help guide you. Releasing the price a month ahead of time, given the fact that some folks love to discuss pricing all the time, would just lead to a month-long uninformed pricing discussion which would still continue after release.

As a side note, we have in the past announced pricing ahead of time, it's just been quite a few years since we did. It didn't make any difference on the pricing discussions then, it was just as I described above.

Regards,

- Erik



JudgeDredd -> RE: Price (1/23/2014 1:11:58 PM)

Fair enough Erik...thank you.

I'm looking forward to hearing good things about this one (taking pricing out the discussion). [&o]



wodin -> RE: Price (1/23/2014 5:14:06 PM)

whoops..sorry mate.
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

lol Wodin - I think you need to read my post [;)]




JudgeDredd -> RE: Price (1/23/2014 6:16:09 PM)

That's ok bud - Erik answered rather convincingly.



Hertston -> RE: Price (2/5/2014 11:21:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

JD I expect a similar price to Conflict of heroes.. being similar sort of games and boardgame conversions.


So did I.. until I read Erik's post, which just seems a rather long-winded way to say "you're not going to like it". [:(]



undercovergeek -> RE: Price (2/6/2014 4:08:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Judge,

It's pretty simple. When a game does not exist yet, in other words it's not available to the public, there can be no educated discussion of the game's value between us and the community.



so...........

you dont know how much to charge until everyone has bought it and is playing it?



JudgeDredd -> RE: Price (2/6/2014 5:04:15 PM)

Well I took from it there can be no "educated" discussion on the price...meaning if the price was available, but people didn't have the game, they wouldn't be able to "justify" the price (regardless of worth).

My dropping it was in respect of Erik responding and the comment that they tried it before and it didn't help...I'm not "entitled" an answer as alot of people around here like to remind you - but he was kind enough to answer and said it didn't work before - so I took that as the suggestion was not a viable one.

As for the price - who knows. It's 6 days apparently until release and perhaps even Matrix don't know yet.



Hertston -> RE: Price (2/6/2014 5:54:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

My dropping it was in respect of Erik responding and the comment that they tried it before and it didn't help...I'm not "entitled" an answer as alot of people around here like to remind you - but he was kind enough to answer and said it didn't work before - so I took that as the suggestion was not a viable one.


I would have thought that depended on what the announced price was? If most thought it reasonable or better than reasonable any 'debate' would be over before it started. It would only continue if the price seemed excessive for the type of game and, really, I think even we uneducated have a pretty good idea of that without needing to play it. Something which, as undercovergeek rightly points out, we can't do without forking out first, anyway.

Still, as you say, we don't know yet. If I think the price is reasonable I'll pay, if not I won't.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Price (2/6/2014 6:28:15 PM)

Value, that's the key. What value to assign to it that will maximize the investment returns in a minimum amount of time ? Does get the wheels turning in my head.




Auchinleck -> RE: Price (2/6/2014 7:20:48 PM)

I wouldn't pay more than 30 or $40 tops for this game. Anymore than that, and Mark Walker would be gouging the war gaming public. Like the price of World In Flames. $100 is too much. Especially without an AI. It's my opinion that $80 was also pretty steep for Grigsby's War in the East, and War in The Pacific Admiral's Edition.[&:]



RockKahn -> RE: Price (2/7/2014 1:27:52 AM)

I've been pretty lucky. Most, but not all, of the Matrix games I've purchased, no matter what the price, have come out pretty cheap when I look at the cost per hour of entertainment I get out of it. That's what a game is for in my opinion, hours of entertainment. On the other hand, I have purchased cheap games that I thought was a bargain and uninstalled them after a few hours. I got EU3 for free, installed it, started it to make sure it ran. Haven't play it at all. I'd get a divide by zero error if I tried to calculate it's cost per hour. [:)]

I'm hoping the price won't be over $40, but it looks fun and looks like something I could easily get 80 hours of entertainment out of over the coming years. So, if I have the money, I'll pay more.



Ken7 -> RE: Price (2/7/2014 2:17:03 PM)

I have been waiting FOREVER for this game. I will definitely purchase this one.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Price (2/7/2014 3:36:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston
I would have thought that depended on what the announced price was? If most thought it reasonable or better than reasonable any 'debate' would be over before it started. It would only continue if the price seemed excessive for the type of game and, really, I think even we uneducated have a pretty good idea of that without needing to play it. Something which, as undercovergeek rightly points out, we can't do without forking out first, anyway.

Still, as you say, we don't know yet. If I think the price is reasonable I'll pay, if not I won't.


From past experience, there's no price point that everyone will agree on and any discussion or debate is better when informed by the actual game. We know the price and we'll announce it at release. My earlier comment did not mean "you won't like it", I have no real idea one way or the other how you or anyone will react, but experience tells me that having the game available for that discussion is the best way to go.

Regards,

- Erik




JudgeDredd -> RE: Price (2/7/2014 3:49:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston
I would have thought that depended on what the announced price was? If most thought it reasonable or better than reasonable any 'debate' would be over before it started. It would only continue if the price seemed excessive for the type of game and, really, I think even we uneducated have a pretty good idea of that without needing to play it. Something which, as undercovergeek rightly points out, we can't do without forking out first, anyway.

Still, as you say, we don't know yet. If I think the price is reasonable I'll pay, if not I won't.


From past experience, there's no price point that everyone will agree on and any discussion or debate is better when informed by the actual game. We know the price and we'll announce it at release. My earlier comment did not mean "you won't like it", I have no real idea one way or the other how you or anyone will react, but experience tells me that having the game available for that discussion is the best way to go.

Regards,

- Erik



With total respect Erik, I can't see how that is ever the case...at least given discussion on price on a games release in any of your forums.

But you said you tried it before and it was non productive...so that's fine. I was just asking as, from the outside, it seemed non-sensicle

Looking forward to the release of this having played the boardgame (not Stalingrad but Band of Heroes)



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Price (2/7/2014 6:54:36 PM)

Drifting into the theoretical, there should be some sort of hopefully "normal" distribution about the 1st year sales quantity and sell price. Obviously, you'd be looking to set your proce on the right hand side of that distribution chart. But not too far.




undercovergeek -> RE: Price (2/7/2014 9:55:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

From past experience, there's no price point that everyone will agree on

Regards,

- Erik




really?

price it at £4.99 see how many complaints you get




**im taking this opportunity to call BS on any 'ah well if its cheap you wont respect the game, thats why we price them so high' crap that may be forth coming



wodin -> RE: Price (2/7/2014 11:53:54 PM)

Hello undercover..haven't seen you for awhile mate.



RockKahn -> RE: Price (2/8/2014 2:04:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

From past experience, there's no price point that everyone will agree on

Regards,

- Erik




really?

price it at £4.99 see how many complaints you get




**im taking this opportunity to call BS on any 'ah well if its cheap you wont respect the game, thats why we price them so high' crap that may be forth coming



Hint: He didn't say "customers". He said "everyone".




warspite1 -> RE: Price (2/8/2014 8:51:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RockKahn


quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

From past experience, there's no price point that everyone will agree on

Regards,

- Erik




really?

price it at £4.99 see how many complaints you get




**im taking this opportunity to call BS on any 'ah well if its cheap you wont respect the game, thats why we price them so high' crap that may be forth coming



Hint: He didn't say "customers". He said "everyone".


warspite1

Quite.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Price (2/9/2014 4:36:20 PM)

The low end of the spectrum these days is the app markets. They tend to go for <5 bucks on average. The games sold here are simply on a higher plane of reference. Now, the hard part as a consumer is making the right choice, since making the wrong one is both easy and expensive.

So, speaking personally, I'm almost never an early adopter. I wait. Until I get a sense that there is a significant amount of fun to be had with it I won't buy.

So, for me, that means I can afford to pay more than many others. So my value point is a bit higher but so are my expectations.

All that being said, I'm waiting and going to be watching closely but if I decide to buy it won't be for at least a month or so after release.




FroBodine -> RE: Price (2/9/2014 6:16:05 PM)

I wish I had your patience, sir!



z1812 -> RE: Price (2/9/2014 6:39:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

The low end of the spectrum these days is the app markets. They tend to go for <5 bucks on average. The games sold here are simply on a higher plane of reference. Now, the hard part as a consumer is making the right choice, since making the wrong one is both easy and expensive.

So, speaking personally, I'm almost never an early adopter. I wait. Until I get a sense that there is a significant amount of fun to be had with it I won't buy.

So, for me, that means I can afford to pay more than many others. So my value point is a bit higher but so are my expectations.

All that being said, I'm waiting and going to be watching closely but if I decide to buy it won't be for at least a month or so after release.




Same here. Last game I purchased I waited 3 months.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: Price (2/9/2014 8:19:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

JD I expect a similar price to Conflict of heroes.. being similar sort of games and boardgame conversions.



Yeah I tend to agree with a sale of the week for $19.95 like I got COH for. That's a good and fair price and I'd pay it in a second for this game. It looks so much like the old squad leader maps. But, Mark says it doesn't play anything like squad leader. But, one can dream can't one?



CSSS -> RE: Price (2/10/2014 3:41:19 AM)

World in Flames was totally worth the $100.00 I have played this game since the original 1984 version. At one time to play wit ALL the expansions, Politics in Flames and the laminated maps and each counter clipped and silicone so when with put tacky on them to stay put on the wall mounted maps I had over $500.00 invested in the game and days of labor. NOW I turn on the computer, hot seat play with my bud and that is all it cost!

No missing counters, no rules lawyer debates for hours , no intensive labor for set up. Those who complain about the hundred dollar price tag have never played a full game of wIF!



undercovergeek -> RE: Price (2/10/2014 7:38:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CSS

NOW I turn on the computer, hot seat play with my bud and that is all it cost!




Forgive me if im wrong, but i thought that wasnt working as designed yet?



JudgeDredd -> RE: Price (2/10/2014 9:39:03 AM)

That doesn't even matter - it's not relevant here and I hate see the **** storm about that games price start up again here with the usual sycophants telling people to stfu.

Hotseat is working UCG - not Netplay.



Hertston -> RE: Price (2/10/2014 1:24:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Yeah I tend to agree with a sale of the week for $19.95 like I got COH for. That's a good and fair price and I'd pay it in a second for this game.


It's a good sale price. The standard price for a 'full' quality game, rather than mid-range of budget has been $40-$50 (UKP25-30 net of tax) and has been for years. I'd quite happily play that for a complete, finished, quality game of a sort that interests me. What I won't do (again) is pay Matrix 'premium' price on the basis of the sort of 'value' twaddle we saw for the - overpriced - Command. That simply doesn't constitute an argument; I and many of the rest of you have spent hundreds of 'value' hours engrossed by much cheaper or even free games.

I don't think WiF is relevant to any other pricing discussions as it's a totally unique product.



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