Artillery question

Artillery question (Full Version)

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BigBadWolf -> Artillery question (2/1/2014 5:38:14 PM)
I know artillery was tweaked a while back to stop nuclear bombardment of Chinese troops, so my question is is it worth assembling large artillery groups for those early games sieges? Should I bother spending PP on large caliber IJN guns from Manchuria and transport them to PI, if I can find a port to unload them, that is? How much improvement would I see compared to divisional artillery one usually has in Clark and Bataan?

castor troy -> RE: Artillery question (2/1/2014 5:58:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf I know artillery was tweaked a while back to stop nuclear bombardment of Chinese troops, so my question is is it worth assembling large artillery groups for those early games sieges? Should I bother spending PP on large caliber IJN guns from Manchuria and transport them to PI, if I can find a port to unload them, that is? How much improvement would I see compared to divisional artillery one usually has in Clark and Bataan? considering how much an artillery unit costs you will be far better off releasing Divisions

BigBadWolf -> RE: Artillery question (2/1/2014 6:13:42 PM)
Yeah, there's that, too.

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Artillery question (2/7/2014 9:46:45 PM)
Just starve Bataan/ Clark You are not Homma, thus you don't need to worry about being labeled as "not aggressive enough" due to a long delay in conquering the PI

BigBadWolf -> RE: Artillery question (2/7/2014 10:18:12 PM)
If you can afford to tie down few divisions for several months. Siege artillery isn't as expensive in PP terms. Still, I'm not sure what effect would they have in battle and if it is worth while dragging them from Korea to Philippines. Would they be effective in shelling invasion TFs?

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Artillery question (2/7/2014 10:30:05 PM)
You can do a full invasion of the PI, get Manila, etc. and once Bataan/ Clark is isolated, remove all the best units, leaving just enough to troops to repeal any counter attack. Lack of provision/ reinforcement means that any offensive attempt will benefit you. That said, ART is your best bet against fortified positions. And it is common knowledge that it is deceptive to look just at the AV numbers when calculating the odds vs fortified positions. I don't think they are very effective against TFs, they will fire, but miss a lot

Gaspote -> RE: Artillery question (2/7/2014 11:23:34 PM)
In my opinion, engineer squad are more usefull than artillery. Artillery is usefull only if fortification level is at 0 or 1. If you attack a fortified position (lvl 3 more), even with more artillery you will loose more units. If you have more engineer squad, you will reduce his fortification so even if you get 100 guns less, on unfortified units, you will be more effective than with more guns on well fortified position. For PI, you get enough of artillery and you still get some unit from China if it's not enough. The only point using artillery is to use ennemy supplies everyday with bombardment because you can't shock or deliberate attack everyday. I still don't think it make a difference if it's one brigade shooting or 5 except you will perhaps get 1 more squad disabled against a fortress.

mind_messing -> RE: Artillery question (2/7/2014 11:44:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf I know artillery was tweaked a while back to stop nuclear bombardment of Chinese troops, so my question is is it worth assembling large artillery groups for those early games sieges? Ground combat at Sian (83,41) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 6630 troops, 444 guns, 438 vehicles, Assault Value = 2799 Defending force 66510 troops, 338 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1251 Allied ground losses: 1274 casualties reported Squads: 34 destroyed, 49 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled Guns lost 10 (4 destroyed, 6 disabled) Assaulting units: 35th Division 15th Tank Regiment 3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade 32nd Division 36th Division 27th Division 1st Ind.Mixed Brigade 110th Division 116th Division 12th Tank Regiment 13th Tank Regiment 16th Ind.Mixed Brigade 12th Division 14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment 6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 4th RF Gun Battalion Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment 2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment North China Area Army 7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 12th Army 12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 1st Mortar Battalion 4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion 8th Ind. Engineer Regiment 3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 2nd Ind. Engineer Regiment 11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment Defending units: 38th Chinese Corps 36th Chinese Corps 57th Chinese Corps 16th Chinese Corps 92nd Chinese Corps 76th Chinese Corps 1st Chinese Corps 3rd Chinese Corps 96th Chinese Corps 9th Chinese Corps 41st Chinese Corps 15th Chinese Base Force 5th War Area 34th Group Army Red Chinese Army 47th Chinese Corps 4th Group Army 22nd Group Army 4th Construction Regiment Yes.

obvert -> RE: Artillery question (2/8/2014 7:33:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: castor troy quote: ORIGINAL: BigBadWolf I know artillery was tweaked a while back to stop nuclear bombardment of Chinese troops, so my question is is it worth assembling large artillery groups for those early games sieges? Should I bother spending PP on large caliber IJN guns from Manchuria and transport them to PI, if I can find a port to unload them, that is? How much improvement would I see compared to divisional artillery one usually has in Clark and Bataan? considering how much an artillery unit costs you will be far better off releasing Divisions have a look at the small arty units in Manchuria. Some of those have the 24-32cm guns, and they are very cheap, strangely. These are VERY effective when dug in and well supported. Well worth the PPs, especially for a long siege or in a set defensive position. Here is a recent example against late war Marine arty units. There are a number of 24cm guns there, and a few 32cm. Ground combat at Masan (102,54) Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 81113 troops, 1678 guns, 1418 vehicles, Assault Value = 3108 Defending force 154922 troops, 1930 guns, 413 vehicles, Assault Value = 5341 Japanese ground losses: 118 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled Allied ground losses: 870 casualties reported Squads: 25 destroyed, 77 disabled Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 9 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled Guns lost 33 (8 destroyed, 25 disabled) Vehicles lost 10 (2 destroyed, 8 disabled) Assaulting units: 34th Combat Engineer Regiment 33rd Infantry Division Americal Infantry Division 2nd Marine Division 81st Infantry Division 6th Marine Division 5th Marine Division 3rd Marine Division 3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion I Corps Artillery 1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion 8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion I US Corps 10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion X Corps Artillery Tenth US Army XXIV US Corps 251st Field Artillery Battalion 12th USMC Field Artillery Battalion V US Amphib Corps 147th Field Artillery Regiment 4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion XIV Corps Artillery X US Corps XXIV CorpsArtillery 148th Field Artillery Battalion Defending units: Yosu Fortress 78th Infantry Regiment 87th Infantry Regiment 94th Division 109th Div /2 123rd Division 111th Division 160th Division 109th Division 57th Division 30th Infantry Regiment 140th Infantry Regiment 11th Division 4th Manchukuo Distr Division 127th Division 77th Infantry Regiment 112th Division 96th Division 19th Division 150th Division 14th Division 120th Division 16th Garrison Unit /9 15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Mortar Regiment 14th Area Army 30th RF Gun Battalion 121st Division 10th Mortar Battalion 7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 71st Mountain Gun Regiment 17th Mortar Battalion 31st RF Gun Battalion 13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 28th Mountain Gun Regiment Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment 29th RF Gun Battalion 26th Field Artillery Regiment 11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 76th JAAF AF Bn

LoBaron -> RE: Artillery question (2/8/2014 8:19:43 AM)
Arty effectiveness is highly dependent on how and where it is used. In general, fort levels diminish the effect of artillery very fast in terms of casualties achieved. This usually means that when attacking against a well dug in defender the primary effect if arty is not destroying devices. But that does not mean it is useless. Bombarding arty forces counterbattery fire, and this costs supply. So it is possible to starve out sieged units faster by constantly running bombardement attacks, even if there are no devices damaged ot destroyed. Arty also supports attacks by ground units. This is often underestimated as a units� condition can only be viewed after the repair phase, which usually means that much of the damage initially caused by combat can already be repaired again, and disruption/fatigue reduced. When a ground assault begins after the bombardement phase, this has not been the case yet. So it may well be that a defending unit is in a bad condition when the dices start to roll for the ground assault, because arty caused enough havoc by the bombardement phase before, and so significantly influenced the battle outcome. My general observation is that ground attacks supported by significant ammounts of arty often have a much higher rate of success than without. As a defender, arty initiates counterbattery fire when attacked. In most cases is more destructive than the bombardement attack itself, partly because the attackers� fort levels a lower on average, partly because how counterbattery fire is implemented in game. And finally, depending on the terrain, arty is a very important unit type to stop tanks, more so if not much AT weaponry is available. This only works in consert with serious AV provided by other units though. And finally, in case you use stacking limit map, the use of arty has an advantage to a regular inf unit, as can significantly enhance the available firepower in a hex (and sometimes AV although that is not the primary goal) without increasing the stacking costs.

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