resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (Full Version)

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eater of stars -> resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/6/2014 9:21:11 PM)

Hello people im not new in the genre of 4x games (i have play master of orion 2, galactic civilization 2, space empires 4, sins of a solar empire, stabase orion, ascendancy, and some others,) but being real honest with you i have never play such complex game in my life and everyone knows distant worlds is quite complex and deep i do have an a idea of how to play the game but there are some points that i need that you people help me to understand so... so im going to the point.
1--i have some kind of a idea how the resources system works but theres something that i just dont understand is just that i send a lot of construction ships and i end up being the empire that mine the most but im !!!!!!ALWAYSˇˇˇˇˇ out of resources in my colonies and the worst problem is that i dont build !!!!![:@]ANYTHING[:@]ˇˇˇˇˇ at all every colony that i have is like resources shortages are hampering the colony an im like WHAT??. ([:o]AND HERE IS WHERE I HAVE AN A IDEA OF HOW IT WORKS[:o])
2--supposedly the moving of resources or the transport of resources or whatewer you want to call it is by the private sector of your empire so you must low your taxes so you can have a better and constant system of resources very well distributed in your empire. (if im right you just have to tell me. if not then tell me why or what im doing wrong or if you have a better system of distributed resources. please tell me.)
3--I have no idea how the system of trade works in this game i really have no idea in fact i have 2 doubts here.
1--when you do a mutual defense pact with a species you are not any longer trading resources with them?
2--how can i maximize the trade pacts with other species i really have no idea of how to do just that it seems complicated maybe is easy and im just making complicated things like i say i really dont know?
please if you cant actually explain me in detail i will be in debt with everyone is agreat game but some systems and some ways of it are just way different to what i used to play so please i hope you can help me and please forgive me if i was asking simple thinks is just that i have my study on the university and im quite busy so i dont have time to solve and experience all the paths and ways and secrets like i used to. i need the infromation as it is so i can play it without problems in my very SHORT time of freedom.
so thank you very much people.[:)][:)][:)][:)]



Hawkeye_BF -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/6/2014 10:16:43 PM)

Hi,

1. I know that problem. Try to give your construction ships only a short range to work. The best way to realise this is to minimize the Fuell Cell component.
( every colony needs the strategic ressources in nearness ) as longer the way of transport of this ressources as higher the risk of a ressource shortage.
(Use the expansion planer with the option "show mining locations by empire priority")
2. Give your Mining stations (time to time) a manual update with the ship editor( gas extractor, docking stations etc). The same with the 3 Freighter types (more
capacity, faster engines but try to keep the maintance low).
3. Have an eye on the tech trees (fast mining, enegergy collection etc.)

Sorry I know my english is really poor, hope you understand what I try to tell you



Spidey -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 12:34:33 AM)

I'm not sure I'm following you, Hawkeye. Constructors run out of resources if the space port they're pulling resources from has a low supply of whatever resources needed for the construction job. Reducing constructors range shouldn't offer any help whatsoever in terms of reducing the risk of a resource shortage. And I don't really encourage using the resource planner too much either, since it doesn't offer much help in building mines close to where they're needed. It also tends to have really odd priorities, telling me that there's such a thing as enough hydrogen or chromium. :-)

Anyways...

quote:

im !!!!!!ALWAYSˇˇˇˇˇ out of resources in my colonies and the worst problem is that i dont build !!!!!ANYTHINGˇˇˇˇˇ at all every colony that i have is like resources shortages are hampering the colony

There are a few things that might cause trouble here. The default automation of colonies might be causing them to build stuff, be it bases, constructors, or colony ships, and in that case you might run into problems. Alternatively, your number of space ports might be either too low or too high. You'll want to have enough that a stockpile is reltively nearby but not so many that your freighters have to take all kinds of resources everywhere all the time. Building a space port on every colony is bound to cause havoc eventually.

quote:

supposedly the moving of resources or the transport of resources or whatewer you want to call it is by the private sector of your empire so you must low your taxes so you can have a better and constant system of resources very well distributed in your empire.

Taxation doesn't directly affect your resource distribution. I think it's much more important to make sure your civilian freighters are somewhat up-to-date with a good hyperdrive, enough thrusters to reach a cruise speed of 20-30, enough cargo capacity to actually make a difference, and enough fuel capacity to get around. Typically, even my small freighters have a cargo capacity of at least 3000 and a range of at least four sectors and my goal is twice as much, once the available tech makes it feasible.

The freighters are only one part of the resource distribution, though. The number of stockpiling locations is another. If you've got space ports everywhere then you'll have loads of places trying to stockpile resources, which I think is a stress factor on your civilian freighters. If you keep a good distance between your ports, there'll be more freighters per port and thus a more stable resource supply.

quote:

I have no idea how the system of trade works in this game

I don't think anyone really does. As far as I know, there are independent traders and there are alien civilian freighters. Both can fly to your space stations and planets and trade resourcecs. That's trade. There's more of it if you've got nearby alien factions that you're somewhat friendly with and even more if you've got resources that the other faction needs. I think a free trade agreements adds a bonus to this but I can't say for sure.

quote:

when you do a mutual defense pact with a species you are not any longer trading resources

I'm pretty sure you'll be trading with other factions regardless of diplomacy. Mutual defense pacts are really just a way of declaring to the galaxy that you and the pact brother are best buddies 4 lyfe, for whatever a close friendship with an AI is worth.



eater of stars -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 2:11:44 AM)

thanks spidey
thank hawkeye_bf (by the way dont worry about your english i dont think my english is that good either im a mexican you see. so dont worry no pressure at all and yeah i understand you.)
lets see if somebody can answer the trade situation that now i know im not the only one[X(] because im really suprised. i really believe i was losing my touch about 4x games and that would be quite shocking at least to me because i really love the genre.
thanks guys.[;)]



Tcby -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 2:27:18 AM)

What version of the game are you playing (base game only, expansions?), and what game settings are you using? Did you begin with a Pre-warp start? How much automation are you using? Is ship and base design automated? How about construction of ships and bases?



eater of stars -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 4:10:23 AM)

distant worlds all expansions all is controlled manually by me (im hardcore in my games but i have to say this games is quite different to what im used to)my galaxy is the most largest preset that i think is huge im against another 20 races (distant worlds expanded) with all the contens shakturi and race events all that stuff in a sandbox game mode in an normal empire normal galaxi (no pirate begginig no prewarp beggining) tech is in normal pirates in normal creatures in normal colony influence range default colony prevalence scarce alien independent life rare home system normal as human democracy tech level normal everything i think is in normal or default except for the colony and the alien independent life other than that is default or normal whatewer you want to call it.
thanks for your answers.[:)]



Canute0 -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 7:14:24 AM)

eater of stars, at first DW is a bit different then others 4x games in that part.
You only play the military part of the game, and you only got full control of this part.
The civilian/privates got control over the resources and the freighters. You got basicly no influcence on this part or can set any priorities what they should do.
Special moving nessesary resources to a distance colony can take alot time even when you got plenty of these resources at your homeworld.
Yes you just would load up a big freighter with all resources and another with fuel-gas and send it to the colony, but the AI works different. They just haul little amout of ordered resources along the traderoutes to that colony or buy it from closer other empires.

You need to live with that system, but the good part are, the AI controled empire need to live with that too.

Some tip:
Be sure your homeworld got all nessesary resources from mines around. So you got a place to build ships.
Most of the construction ship you can let on automation, just keep a few for manual use so you can use them to build mines for important resources or other things.
Don't build bases/port on every colony or ignore the warning about resources shortages there. Just send defending fleets when needed.

Once you played a few games, you will get a feeling what resources are important and what you need to do.





Henzington -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 10:13:42 AM)

The expansion planner is hugely important if you are shortages its best to check it out as it will tell you how many of each resource you have currently as well as where sources can be found.



Bingeling -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 10:58:39 AM)

You don't have to leave a lot of money for the civilians, it is hard to tax them hard enough for them to run out, anyways (since too much tax makes your colonies rebel).

Why do you build a whole lot of mines with a horde of constructors? When I wrote my Shadows AAR I think I had at most 4 constructors, sitting mostly idle. But I don't play very "fast" games. 22 colonies, 24 mines (39 gas mines). Colonies mine stuff too...

Get a feel for what are important, strategic resources. If you go to design screen and press the construction summary button (below the central window), you get the resources required for that design. The top window in expansion planner tell how many sources (mines and colonies) that are mining the stuff. It also tells your stores.

In shadows, you are told about shortages. Don't order stuff if you know there are shortages on your ship building colonies and your empire has a total of 200 steel. Except for maybe ordering a steel mine ;-) Don't colonize too fast (it may not be too easy to do that, though). Each new colony (conquered or founded) will make the civilians build more ships. The good thing is that they pay you money (more cash), the bad thing is that they will use resources to build those ships.

As for "mining the most... shortages... can't build anything", I don't recognize that part. Ships should usually be built at the capital, but the build order screen does not appear too crappy when it comes to distributing stuff for building.

Are your stores less than 10k of any strategic resource? Are there shortages on your capital?






eater of stars -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 8:13:49 PM)

thanks everyone for your answers i now have a beter idea of how things work.
about the question of bingeling i do have a lot of resorces in stores but the problem is i see that theres not much of the material that my empire needs in transit or being move to where is needed (that seems to be the problem some people in other similar questions that i have found in the forums seems to have the same problem but in the end they say that is normal the only thing i need is time is theirs answer to my shortage situation)
so theres is something i want to ask
is really ok to elevate the taxes to the point where the population barely is happy}? (i mean when the smile face appears [:)]) when yopu are governing humans they are quite possitive so you can actually elevate taxes tremendously high (i have elevate taxes to the 60% and they keep smilling i think the number is eleven when they keep smiling[:)]) so i shouldnt worry about being a barbaric taxe beast?.
thanks in advance.



Bingeling -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 8:34:45 PM)

The bad thing about high taxes is that it reduces population growth. And huge populations are a key to colony revenue, which is what you tax. The influence here was reduced in Shadows, but many still go by the old principle of "as much 0 tax as possible". Then tax the full, valuable ones. When you go a colony with 200+ revenue, it makes little sense to tax the ones giving 10-15, anyways.

I would say taxing to borderline smiley/grey is OK. Keep in mind that foreign populations can get a massive negative happiness modifier if you are at war with their species, so some safe margin does not hurt.

The latest wise word is to have very few spaceports. Make a smaller (or larger) structure with some docking bays, medical, and recreational (and necessities) and build this above "normal" colonies. This should help the civilians keep the few, large, spaceports stocked.



eater of stars -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 8:49:54 PM)

i dont worry too much about the race thing i dont accept any other race except humans and well i put my taxes to 0 in order to get max population in all my news colonies the more faster
about your last wise word.
that would actually make my colony to develop more faster or it will be the same and i will actually lose resources or should i only build it when im completely develop?.
thank in advance.[:)]



Bingeling -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/7/2014 9:14:08 PM)

Medical and recreation on a base (like spaceport) gives a happiness bonus. Happier populations breed better, and can be taxed harder before reaching whatever happiness limit you put.

So the old tradition is "spaceport everywhere" unless you try to be cheap about it and do something custom. Then it is realized that lots of spaceports is bad for resource distribution (each tries to have some in store, which dilutes stores). Add that docking is faster with a docking bay than just using colony, it makes sense to have a small (or large...) non-construction spaceport flying with commerce, medical, recreation, and some docking bays. Add weapons and necessities as you see fit.

Given that a colony with no spaceport won't hug a lot of resources, one could hope that traffic is limited and just a few docking bays is enough for all of them. I have never tried this myself, I tend to let the AI manage stuff to nerf myself (when I play...).



Henzington -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 12:33:03 PM)

I find it best to keep taxes at zero till a planet is maxed out.



Bingeling -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 12:35:34 PM)

If you can afford to do that, the early game is not hard enough [:)]



CyclopsSlayer -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 2:23:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

If you can afford to do that, the early game is not hard enough [:)]

I can't say that I have been able to easily do that since I graduated from Normal difficulty. [;)]
Building a Commerce Center at every backwater planet covers close to the potential tax levies. No Free Trades in place and my current game is giving me 321K in Port bonus income from 1 Medium Port and 11 Commerce Star Bases. 5 further colonies lost their bases to pirate/enemy action and I have yet to rebuild.



Bingeling -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 2:26:42 PM)

Taking a fight to the pirates in a shadows start, the spaceport one manages to build that can repair the local defenders mauled by pirate rail guns can be very helpful...



CyclopsSlayer -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 2:45:43 PM)

While that Port for repair is indeed useful. Having a Yard cluster in every system will confuse the hell out of the Private Freighters AI control.
I will always have a port over my Home World as both Construction and Research Hub. Every 25-50 additional worlds I will add a permanent Port at a large Max population world. I will also often build a Construction Yard on the active War Fronts as I move the front 3+ Sectors away I retire the existing if it is beyond the number I keep, and I rebuild a new base near the current front.



Dregula -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 4:07:50 PM)

I manage my Constructors only manually. And i give build orders over the expansion planner. I sort the mining places in "show mining locations by empire priority" by distance and send the constructors only to the nearest positions.
later, when i have more systems, then i send constructors prefer only to green marked positions, what means, that the mining location is in the same system, as a colony from me.

Only when no entries in "show mining locations by empire priority" listed, then i use galaxy priority. Here i prefer green mining locations too.
A Mining Base 999999999999 Milion Lightyears ahead from my colonys is mostly worthless (Fuel Spots except perhaps).



Ardilus -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 6:03:18 PM)

I tend to progressively tax colonies both large and small based on GDP. From what I've been able to determine, population gains from breeding are only marginally affected by happiness since Shadows. The bulk of population growth from happiness instead comes from migration, and this is calculated into the displayed growth rate at colonies. I find that I can comfortably tax growing colonies without risking a dampened growth rate, if I am careful to maintain a happiness that is still larger than colonies I am receiving migrants from (also balanced against planet quality). Once my economy gets some momentum, I frequently build ports with med and rec on colonies I want to beef up quickly. These do not have to be full-on defensive, construction oriented ports, but kept minimal. Even building a resort instead, with a med center, will provide happiness bonuses.




Bingeling -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/8/2014 6:04:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CyclopsSlayer

While that Port for repair is indeed useful. Having a Yard cluster in every system will confuse the hell out of the Private Freighters AI control.
I will always have a port over my Home World as both Construction and Research Hub. Every 25-50 additional worlds I will add a permanent Port at a large Max population world. I will also often build a Construction Yard on the active War Fronts as I move the front 3+ Sectors away I retire the existing if it is beyond the number I keep, and I rebuild a new base near the current front.

The repair port can of course be scrapped when no longer needed, like your "front line yard". The pirate war is eventually won.

I have rarely felt any real resource problems (though new spaceports take a while). This with a spaceport at every colony. They appear to have started auto upgrading, though, and medium-large at every colony may be worse. I play rather slow games, with quite a lot of peacetime, which probably reduces the resources used in general. I also don't order 10 cruisers at any random colony with a medium space port...



Spidey -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/9/2014 2:08:18 AM)

Binge, how large are your stockpiles on each colony? Because that used to be my main problem. Every now and again, I needed to retrofit or construct large numbers of ships and then I just didn't have the resources available to get it done, since they were scattered all over the place.



Bingeling -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/9/2014 7:31:32 AM)

Not sure, but I tend to have a few trusted spaceports on massive colonies, and do major construction or retrofit on these. After a while you get a feel for where you can order a full fleet at one spaceport and get it built. Those are the ones you want to retrofit large fleets as well.

From my experience... You often got a main cluster of large and "old" colonies. Even with spaceports everywhere, large spaceports in this cluster are usually well stocked. Beware of any spaceport in the "outskirts" of the empire, and any fresh one.

On retrofit, I will often rotate fleets. Retrofit the ones sitting at or near "home". Then send them to the outskirts to replace the fleets there, which can move home to retrofit and become new "home" fleets.

Keep in mind that you can always decide where a fleet will do its retrofit (and refueling). I pay attention to where fleets wants to go to refuel or retrofit, and intervene if I don't agree with the choice.



elanaagain -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/9/2014 1:30:01 PM)

Back to building a spaceport at a newly colonized world: I redesign the small spaceports and create a bare bones base with only the minimum components required. This lets it get built faster and gets the population growth bonus from the med bay and rec bays applied sooner than any other method. Then I design upgraded designs that favor whatever I'm hoping to specialize at that world. Another advantage of this is you can put the components in order of construction. That means you can put power generation first, and shields, (or whatever you choose) to be built first and they go on line even before the base is complete.



CyclopsSlayer -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/9/2014 1:51:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elanaagain

Back to building a spaceport at a newly colonized world: I redesign the small spaceports and create a bare bones base with only the minimum components required. This lets it get built faster and gets the population growth bonus from the med bay and rec bays applied sooner than any other method. Then I design upgraded designs that favor whatever I'm hoping to specialize at that world. Another advantage of this is you can put the components in order of construction. That means you can put power generation first, and shields, (or whatever you choose) to be built first and they go on line even before the base is complete.

Exactly. I place Fighter Bays first as they provide a Off/Def weapon system usable almost immediately, while guns and shields won't operate until the base is done.
However, try doing the base at a new colony as a Star Base, as a Spaceport is required to have Yards, and a Base doesn't require them.

I have also been guilty of using a Large Spaceport as a bomb.
Have money in the bank? Have a Pirate Fleet raiding a key colony? Build a LSP which they will immediately destroy, in a huge explosion. If the Pirates are only damaged, immediately order a new base, which will also blow up... Glory in the dead and dying Pirates... [X(]



elanaagain -> RE: resources, private sector and trade problems and doubts. (2/11/2014 7:06:21 PM)

C Slayer.. love the designer 'blowing up raiding pirates' base... lol I give my deviousness crown to you.



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