RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (Full Version)

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Flimbo -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/11/2014 8:27:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flimbo

However, (an once more) allied submarines in the baltic sea kill anything, even battleships in coastal control zone. Have no chance to get any convoy through, which is impossible to compensate.


Hiya Flimbo Germany should have the upper hand in the Baltic,I have moved one off the Battleships from Cuxhaven to Kiel,she also has 4 cruisers in the Baltic against 1 Russian Cruiser and they each have 1 submarine. Can I suggest that you keep at least 2 off your Cruisers together, that way when you locate an enemy submarine,then with two or more cruisers you can attack the submarine in combination,similar to what happens on land, I find using this tactic you can more than hold your own against the enemy Submarines.Another tip Zeppelins can now attack naval targets from the start of the game,I use the Zeppelin to make attacks against enemy Submarines in the Baltic[;)]

quote:

Hiya Flimbo Germany should have the upper hand in the Baltic,I have moved one off the Battleships from Cuxhaven to Kiel,she also has 4 cruisers in the Baltic against 1 Russian Cruiser and they each have 1 submarine. Can I suggest that you keep at least 2 off your Cruisers together, that way when you locate an enemy submarine,then with two or more cruisers you can attack the submarine in combination,similar to what happens on land, I find using this tactic you can more than hold your own against the enemy Submarines.Another tip Zeppelins can now attack naval targets from the start of the game,I use the Zeppelin to make attacks against enemy Submarines in the Baltic


Thanks for the Zeppelin info, that might help a little. Still the overall problem is that the (Allied) submarines are to powerful, even if I keep my ships together. I've just saved a game, where two submarines attack on of my battleships (strength 5) on my green coast hexes and almost sink it with practically no own casualties. I can upload the file if you like. The encounter happens at the very beginning of the AI turn, so you wouldn't have to wait much :)
Also got another save where my cruisers are given **** by subs on my coastal hexes.



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/11/2014 9:20:53 PM)

Question; My Russian BB and cruiser need repair, they are in separate ports, the BB is repaired with 9 PP as is normal, but the cruiser called for 6 PP to go from a 9 to a full strength 10 step, which seemed odd to me, so I moved it from Riga to Tallinn, where it only cost 4 PP to bring it up to full strength.

What is the method to the madness as to why that should happen? Mind you the cruiser had been in Riga for over a full turn prior.

Also; Why should I be able to "see" a German sub, at the beginning of my turn off the Southern tip of England? and by seeing it; Why will the computer not allow me to attack it? It's a little confusing to me.....




kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/11/2014 9:38:53 PM)

I will ask the software wiz kid to check this out,because this is part of the games coding.[&:]



kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/11/2014 10:08:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

Why should I be able to "see" a German sub, at the beginning of my turn off the Southern tip of England? and by seeing it; Why will the computer not allow me to attack it? It's a little confusing to me.....




SUBMARINE RULES
Submarines are special and are always hidden, even if the hex they are
in is not in the FoW. They only become visible if they attack an enemy
unit, or if an enemy unit accidentally attempts to move to the hex they’re
in. They will remain visible for one turn, after which they become
invisible again.
You can only attack submarines with units that have not already moved.
This means that generally only units already adjacent to an enemy
submarine during the submarine’s own attack can retaliate after the
enemy’s turn.



kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/11/2014 11:22:44 PM)

This is of topic as per the 1.4.1 Open Beta but I thought the question needed an answer!

Some forum members asked a few months back,why Persia was the only Country in the game,that did not have any Production capability.Well I don't know the reason why either,so I have done something about it,now remember this is not official at this time,but I have fixed it so that Persia now is a fully functioning Country.

[image]local://upfiles/36378/455B3B41C32C4CC598D1DF0A72744F1A.jpg[/image]



kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/11/2014 11:24:27 PM)

Persia also now has land forces as well.Remember at this time, this is only a test addition, no official permission, has been given to give Persia, the same status in game that every other Country takes for granted![;)]

[image]local://upfiles/36378/465E660307AE493F82B6362973E51C67.jpg[/image]



IvanGrozni -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 7:04:21 AM)

As far as I know, Persia didn't participate with its army in ww1.



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 2:12:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

The Small Garrison is a special case as per Man Power, they represent the older population who come from there own City, you can think off them as Grandfathers protecting there families,while the younger male members of their family, is fighting on the front lines.[;)]


Perhaps they should only be able to move one hex from their own city? That would give some flexibility in defence but would prevent them joining wider offensives. i am still wondering if it would be better if these small garrisons had to be purchased/built by the players just like the other infantry units.



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 2:16:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ivan Grozny

As far as I know, Persia didn't participate with its army in ww1.


I haven't had time to read these myself yet but they should provide some sort of answer to this question . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Campaign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Central_Government_Gendarmerie



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 2:47:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ivan Grozny

As far as I know, Persia didn't participate with its army in ww1.


quote:

One more thing: Why is it that when playing as Entente (1916 or later), no Persian troops, yet, as CP (same time period) Persia has all kinds of troops, or has troop building capacity?

quote:

In MP 1.30 1914 start, a certain Entente gentleman from N. Carolina went straight after Persia cities, the Persians were completely defenseless, no Production Panel, "a walk in the park", the only country on the map without the ability to defend itself, that has got to change......


Read some of Stockwellpete references, part of which describes a Persian army. This army "may have" been neutral during the actual war. BUT, if for some reason in SP or MP a player may want to invade Persia (outside the norm of WW1), certainly Persia would take up arms against this (ally itself with like minded nations at the same time), and defend itself, as with every other country on the map. An invading country to Persia should not get a free ride in taking all, or some of Persian cities.



kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 3:26:14 PM)

Ok folks I don't want this Persia thing,detract from the 1.40 Open Beta, I'm reading everything carefully,and will make minor adjustments when it comes to final release off the patch.[;)]



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 5:38:12 PM)

Is level 16 trenching a thing of the past? Industrial warfare and Barbwire seem to produce around a level 3 trenching here in the spring of 1915. Or would there be some kind of delay per unit before it (trenching) takes effect? Such as; unit has to remain in place so many turns before the full (present tech) get's applied?

Can something be done with the Russian commanders? For they seem to enter the game ass-backwards... In other words, one general needs x-amount to become active, but is not allowed to enter the game (meets requirements), because the general that needs Hydro artillery, blocks his path. Is this something you can look into?



kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 6:14:21 PM)

I will look at adjusting the trenching levels,per tech advance,but I think trench level off 16 was too high in the past,can you tell me how you feel,troop losses are being handled later into the war,do you think Garrison & Infantry units need to be more durable,or were your concerns just early war because of low trench defense level?

As for the Commanders, and the tech restrictions,as you know I would love to remove these illogical blocks on availability,I will also fix the order in which commanders become available.[;)]



ojnab_bob -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 7:23:25 PM)

The trenches do seem a little weak/perhaps miscoded - it's 1915 in my game and I have developed barbed wire tech, but am still only getting a maximum of "entrenchment bonus - 3" and a "level 1 trench" graphics marker on the screen. The war is definitely very fluid because of that; perhaps a bit too fluid.



kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 7:46:18 PM)

Many thanks for feedback,I will adjust the entrenchment before final release,so that its more effective,which will in turn stop the game from being as fluid,it is a fine balancing act to get it just right.[;)]



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 8:06:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete


quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

The Small Garrison is a special case as per Man Power, they represent the older population who come from there own City, you can think off them as Grandfathers protecting there families,while the younger male members of their family, is fighting on the front lines.[;)]


Perhaps they should only be able to move one hex from their own city? That would give some flexibility in defence but would prevent them joining wider offensives. i am still wondering if it would be better if these small garrisons had to be purchased/built by the players just like the other infantry units.


Any more thoughts on my query here, Kirk?



kirk23 -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 8:16:07 PM)

Hi stockwellpete the Small Garrison at present time,is being used incorrectly by the AI, it was never my intention, that the Small Garrison would be any thing but City protection behind enemy lines,the next patch 1.50 is where a lot more work will hopefully be done on the AI.Speaking off which,I'm sure it was you who asked the question about Artillery movement up Mountains and through Swamps,with this patch it has been impossible to change this from happening,because it is hard coded, that units can always move at least one hex.I have spoken with the software wiz kid, and this will be looked at with the 1.50 patch. As for Small Garrisons being a production unit,space is at a premium on the production que,where I would hope to add more vital and interesting units to the game in future.[;)]



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 9:08:08 PM)

OK - and yes, it was me who mentioned artillery movement in swamps and up mountains. Another issue for me is what happens when a country surrenders. At the moment the new boundaries can be quite odd if a few units have broken through and taken some cities. What would be better is if more credible borders were restored - so, for example, if Romania was defeated it would lose some territory and cities but it would still have a compact shape and a few garrison units for defence; and Russia might lose the Ukraine or a large stretch of land in the Caucasus, but it wouldn't have a long "worm-hole" stretching into its territory (the small garrisons will stop this happening quite as much, I agree).

I will play for a couple of hours tomorrow but in my first SP game as the Central Powers I have found that Germany and Austria cannot generate enough PP surpluses to build enough units let alone increase shell production or buy more research labs. By the end of 1914 they are not even able to repair all their units each turn while the Ottomans seem to be the most dynamic nation of the Central Powers. So this feels wrong to me. Also, the British seem to be able to put huge numbers of troops in Egypt very quickly and again that doesn't quite feel right. The opening phase on the Western Front is excellent though and the eastern front is very mobile, which is also very good.

I like the changes very much but there is still some tweaking to do before 1.40 becomes official, in my view.



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 9:39:36 PM)

Even though Entente was having a rough start, the momentum seems to be shifting the other way, especially with Italy entering the war 25/May/15 turn 25/118, also, on this turn Bulgaria (turn # to enter 10) went from Black to Red. All Austria could muster was a tired 2 step garrison in Trento, nothing in Trieste, which is a pretty good indication Austria is already hurting PP wise, and with the recent loss prior of Cattaro and Sarajevo is poorer.

The German "Western Front" (from what I can see), consists of 4-5 small garrisons, 2 infantry, 3-4 garrisons and step 7 Austrian gun, against a far superior English/French force, mini breakthroughs have been happening regular now, don't expect the front will hold too much longer. It's evidence the Germans are suffering from lack of PP. None of their supply ships have reached home. Both BBs sunk, 4 out 5 cruisers sunk, 3 English BBs straddle in front of Cuxhaven port. (They lost Koeningsberg several turns ago, huge PP loss)

Have to wonder where the CP resources are? and how it was spent? Did they invest heavily in techs, ect.? The Germans are just starting to phase in level 3 infantry, against my level 2s. Austria seems to backing off the Eastern Front to meet it's new threat Italy.

Does the AI have the ability to dump certain Techs/labs to stay solvent? A lot of times I dump armor labs after getting armored cars. Almost never keep Austrian Naval tech labs, I guess it's a matter of strategy.

I'll tell ya one thing, invested in Russian bombers and fighters early on, they have been a "God send"....



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/12/2014 11:29:09 PM)

Belgian troops should stay in Belgium, not rotate down into France.



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 12:43:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

Belgian troops should stay in Belgium, not rotate down into France.


Don't know what you are getting at? At present only have 1 Belgian garrison and 1 armored car, both (in country) too weak for front line action, doubled up on their ground troop lab, which leaves Belgium with 1 PP a turn to spare.

Historically, I do not know the story, but in this game, when the Entente break open the CP Western Front, I really don't think it's an issue to consider, I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I would think the Belgians would like to get their pound of flesh and revenge for being invaded.

One other thought; in 1915 and later scenarios, as a last resort do I move Belgians south. First off, unless the unit desperately needed repair. Secondly, their NM takes a severe hit, often knocked down to 7%, really close to being a forced NM surrender, which effects all Entente nations, especially Russia and Serbia, if it is still alive. Thirdly, it might effect their tech development (which at this point is not viewable).



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 6:29:08 AM)

Historically, Belgian troops stayed in Belgium between 1914 and 1918. To reproduce this in the game would actually stop the French sending lots of replacements into Belgium because the hexes would be occupied by Belgian units. And so it would increase the chances of re-creating what actually happened in 1914 (Aisne, Marne, race to the sea etc).



IvanGrozni -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 7:20:44 AM)

If we want the game to keep some level of historical accuracy, I suggest keeping the Persian army out of the conflict.



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 11:58:04 AM)

One of the things I hear and see; Is the "potential" of this game. Perhaps it might someday include scenarios of different types as you suggest (historical, hypothetical, or some for the pure fun of it), all would be welcome to me.

However, for now, I'd rather help those who provide this (in my words) entertainment, I'm no computer wiz-kid, I'm just someone who really enjoys the game (and someone who devilishly likes to stick a "Hot Poker" into certain issues about the game), as well as anybody else who is in to it..

PS; This game has taught me a lot about WW1, including your insights....



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 3:55:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

The attacking AI ground troops, seem to have exceptional (favorable) killing ratios, even when my troops have not moved and even have slight trenching (2-3 no barbwire yet). Trenching overall has been less (step lower, maybe more) than prior versions. It is, what it is for now.

I've learned to accept the killing ratios and the trenching, for it works both ways. A player has to pay special attention to the owning (your) sides' "Combat Prognosis Window", to weigh up the consequences, a combined arms attack almost always has a favorable outcome compared to being just a punching bag for the other side.

Turks put so much effort into trying to capture Sarikamish and the Suez canal, they fail to protect Constanopol, troop transported out of Savasterpol to offshore the Turk Capital, supported by Russian cruiser. On the next turn "nobody showed up to protect it", never saw this in any prior games!

Sept. 2/15 turn 32/118; The CP Western Front has completely disintegrated, the AI's use of small garrisons as front line troops has completely backfired, don't expect to see this in future patches.

Ramping up techs changes the play dramatically, the trenching issue, almost becomes irrelevant. For sure; techs are slower to develop than prior versions. Cavalry & armored cars are "king" on the open plains of Germany, it's something to plan ahead for, when the opportunity arises.



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 8:14:23 PM)

I played the big campaign today as Central Powers in single player (average level). The Central Powers had effectively lost the war by the middle of 1915. The western front was collapsing and the Russians were threatening both Konigsberg and Berlin. The Turks were desperately defending Jerusalem. Only success for CP's was that Serbia surrendered. Both German and Austrian navies did very well but both countries unable to generate sufficient PP to modernise units, build sufficient armies or research labs or increase shell production. Still very lop-sided in my opinion.



ojnab_bob -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 8:31:33 PM)

Just as a counterpoint, I am at the end of 1915 in my 1.4.1 CP single player game (also on average), and I've occupied all of France, Serbia and the upper half of Italy, and am in front of Brest-Litovsk with 8 subs in the Atlantic (which unfortunately brought the US into the war). My general observations/opinions, which you certainly should take with a grain of salt:

1. I think Germany's PP is about right, honestly - the CP player should always have to make a decision on where to spend scarce resources; in 1.4.1 I have enough PP to carry labs, a 14-infantry army and plenty of navy as the Germans. Then again, I was able to knock France out by the end of 1914, eliminating one major front, so this may be a problem of small sample size.

2. Enjoying how the US came in quickly when I sank every British convoy for about a 6-month period.

3. France didn't surrender even when I took all of the mainland by early 1915 - those Corsicans and pied noirs are a stubborn lot.

4. Entrenchment effects seem too light, as described earlier. Technology is a touch too slow - I have 2 labs in ground technology, and despite focusing on steel helmet, I'm still not there at the end of 1915.

5. The Turks seem to have endless PP! I am fielding huge armies in the Sinai and on the Armenian border. No sick man of Europe here... unlike the Austrians, which generally are lucky to hold their own until the Germans can save their bacon on any relevant front. So that part is playing out as it should, anyway...

6. The management improvements are so expensive that I haven't even considered upgrading them; but it's no problem, as 1914 German shell production of 9 is more than enough if you're only fielding 1-2 artillery units intermittently.

I've enjoyed the patch! Thanks for your hard work.



ojnab_bob -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 8:38:08 PM)

Two other observations -

7. Sort of enjoying the small garrisons getting plugged into the front by the AI - makes for more contiguous frontlines in the East. I've done the same, and just think of them as "Quality 3 troops". They can hold you up for a turn or two, anyway, and if you want to reinforce them you are bleeding precious manpower.

8. German subs may be a touch cheap at only 1 PP per turn - at 20 PP and 1 PP/turn, you can't afford not to carry an armada of them! If they each can sink 3-4 points of merchant convoy over a 25 turn period, which is quite do-able, they've effectively paid for themselves. 2 PP may be too expensive for upkeep, though - any way to code 1.5?



operating -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 9:06:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

I played the big campaign today as Central Powers in single player (average level). The Central Powers had effectively lost the war by the middle of 1915. The western front was collapsing and the Russians were threatening both Konigsberg and Berlin. The Turks were desperately defending Jerusalem. Only success for CP's was that Serbia surrendered. Both German and Austrian navies did very well but both countries unable to generate sufficient PP to modernise units, build sufficient armies or research labs or increase shell production. Still very lop-sided in my opinion.


Have not tried CP 1914 yet, and have "NO doubt", what you say is true. Can you imagine trying to play CP in MP, with this beta; No way!

It's 14 Oct. 1915, turn 35/118, CP is in shambles throughout Europe, I mean, "it's bad", I actually feel sorry for the CP. The Turks have power, but just don't seem to be all that cohesive, they have a gun, but have not pulled the trigger on it yet (?). Their Cruiser attacks French BB, minor success, dumb idea, sunk afterwards.

The bottom line is this; I can appreciate the Turk strength, but the Germans and probably the Austrians too, need more in the Bank to compete in this Beta. They did not stand a chance once Italy entered the war and with French and English troops supporting Serbia. Italian PP is down from previous versions.

Let me ask you this: "Did you try to break the North Sea Blockade?"



stockwellpete -> RE: Open Beta Patch 1.4.1 (2/13/2014 9:28:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

Let me ask you this: "Did you try to break the North Sea Blockade?"


No, most of the German navy was in the Baltic dealing with the Russian and British subs and fleet. The Swedish convoys were the only thing giving me PP's to spend.



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