Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (Full Version)

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joe6778 -> Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/15/2014 3:37:05 AM)

I've posted here before. I've been playing the PG series and now PzC for a very long time. I received a lot of
tips here to better my game.

I managed to beat the PzC vanilla campaign and for a very long time now I've been working my way through the
DLC Grand Campaign.

I started on Lieutenant and worked up to Colonel for West 42/43 and East 43 campaigns. That's where I stall.

I have followed past advice and suggestions from a few websites devoted to these games. I have come to the
conclusion that if you say you're winning the DLC Grand Campaign on the highest difficulty settings then you must
be lying.

It has nothing to do with better tactics- it's just sheer numbers-the allied AI just sends wave upon wave of units against the Axis and
no matter how experienced my units are or how good their quality, or how much prestige I have, I can't get
past the overwhelming number of units they throw at you in order to capture the objectives. By the time I wear down
the allies, the scenario is over and I'm a few objectives short.

Game after game has ended the same way no matter what I do. This is beyond a challenge- it's an exercise in futility.



greykemp@gmail.com -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/15/2014 6:56:56 AM)

I just assume it's me. After all, most posters claim they just roll through the game and then get bored, or joke about how easy it is compared to similar games. Of course, it might have been the fact that once I bought and loaded version 1.22 suddenly the ONLY campaign I can play is the Allied one. I've even tried uninstalling everything, reloading from my orginal Panzer Korp disk and then "updating" the game. Wham. I'm back to Allied Campaign only. So obviously, it's you and me...... :)



vonRocko -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/15/2014 2:01:56 PM)

quote:

So obviously, it's you and me...... :)

And me....I always doubted those that say they win at the hardest level. The must be the "Chess Masters" of the game.



airbornemongo101 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/17/2014 2:39:22 PM)

There are a lot of people who have played the DLC's on Mannstein w/ 1.22and completed the DLC's.

Personally I like General and have completed the DLC's at it .

IMHO anybody who plays Mannstein is a masochist (Kerensky that was aimed at you)

The Slitherine forums are the best place for AAR's and tips.

Now I haven't heard of anybody completing the campaigns playing Ultimate, but I'm sure there is somebody.



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 2:30:37 AM)


I find the game to be total frustration at Colonel. I can't believe that anyone can beat the DLC Grand Campaign from 39-45 on higher difficulties.

I'm no novice- I have played the PzG series and PzC for years. But it's not a matter of strategy and tactics. For instance, I started at Lieutenant difficulty for the '39 and '40 campaigns and built up prestige for the later campaigns. I breeze through '39 and '40 and then move up to Colonel starting in '41.

By the time I reach Stalingrad I have to spend most of my prestige to replace my losses.

OK- so by the start of '43 East my core has 12000 prestige. I manage a marginal, a decisive and then a marginal victory. By the Kursk scenario my prestige is down to 8000. I have a bunch of FW190s, two tank busting Stukas, and various PzIIIM, PzIIIN, PzIVHs, and a Panther (which is all I can afford.) So I have about 3000 prestige left to play the scenario. I manage to capture the Objective in the NW, but then the Soviet onslaught begins.

There must be 25 Soviet planes and at least 50 units that I'm up against AFTER I progress halfway through the scenario. I surrender and view the battlefield. There are still tons of Soviet units left and my force is decimated. At that point I'm ready to fling my laptop across the floor. And this is after many attempts to advance through the campaign.

The 42/43 West Campaign is just as bad. This is not a game- it's an frustrating exercise in futility that has nothing to do with strategy and tactics. You're up against overwhelming numbers of units.

There's no way I can win the Grand Campaign on anything higher than Sergeant.

Obviously, the Germans lost WWII, but if you can't change history no matter what you do in this game, than what's the point?

I don't believe it's possible to beat this game on higher difficulties unless there's editing or cheating going on- the sheer number of units arrayed against the Germans are impossible to overcome.



IainMcNeil -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 8:43:04 AM)

Many people do not repair at all in mission (which means they do not take enough casualties to warrant repair, which means they are playing very differently to you). They only repair between missions to save Prestige as green recruits are free and elite half price. They also find repairing slows down the advance. I don't enjoy the harder difficulty levels personally but they are possible. I prefer Colonel.

It sounds like you are taking too many casualties leading to too much repair costs and lack of experience in your troops. You may need to look at the details of the combat mechanics for suppression, mass attacks etc to get the best out of it.



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 2:32:26 PM)

It's impossible not to take casualties during a scenario.

You have to advance to take objectives and you get attacked by overwhelming numbers of enemy units. No matter what fighter cover I have or terrain my units are in or the artillery that's backing them up, you can't protect all your units.
If I stay in one place, I get attacked. If I move I'm attacked.

Again, I don't believe that players can do this. I've played hundreds of games of PzC and it just doesn't ring true.



IainMcNeil -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 3:55:02 PM)

Its not impossible :) You have to suppress your opponents and make sure you are attacking the right units against the right units.

It is not that they take 0 damage, just that they don't take enough to need to repair during a mission.



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 4:43:13 PM)


Yep- I know how it works. I always try to support my units with artillery/fighters but if they fall below 7-8 strength, they get attacked and destroyed.

Of course, more advanced units (Tigers, Panthers, Elefants) may be harder to destroy, but when swarms of units attack it, it will be worn down and destroyed. Plus, low prestige at the start of a scenario precludes my ability to upgrade units (see above posts.)

The AI makes up for human intelligence with swarms of units. You're telling me that players don't lose units when they're up against literally hundreds of enemy units against your force?? No way!



IainMcNeil -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 4:47:24 PM)

You need to get your units experienced so you can overstrength them before the mission starts and then losing 2-3 damage still leaves them string enough to fight.

The evidence is there - hundreds of people have completed the game on maximum difficulty to unlock the 3 additional difficulty levels. You can see their AAR's explaining how they do it :)



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 5:04:24 PM)

Some of my units are at maximum experience and most at maximum overstrength.

It's the sheer numbers- my high quality, high experience, overstrength units against 100s of swarming enemy units. Result- I lose.




joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/18/2014 5:14:56 PM)

I checked the AARs- not much there.



rodney727 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 12:52:17 AM)

I love to play on Manstien .... Here is how I win.
It all starts with your core force.
1. Artillery is king. Always try and hit your enemy with one or two hits before attacking.
2. Never ever use elite reforcements until deployment phase
3. The 88 gun... I'm shocked that this unit isn't in your inventory. I have five in the 1944 dlc now all are 4 and 5 stars. They can bring down the best allied fighter or bomber and can make any Russian tank shart in their pants.
4. Use tanks for tank on tank combat and to finish of weaker units. Never ever use a tank in a forest or city setting.
5. Never ever use a truck after the half track in available .
6. Upgrade your hero units first.
7. Use para units to capture unguarded non victory objectives. 500 extra prestige points goes along way.
8. Your Air Force should be 80% fighters. Always protect your TBs.
9. Use aux units wisely and not as cannon fodder.
10. Always think outside the box.
Hope this helps.
quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

I've posted here before. I've been playing the PG series and now PzC for a very long time. I received a lot of
tips here to better my game.

I managed to beat the PzC vanilla campaign and for a very long time now I've been working my way through the
DLC Grand Campaign.

I started on Lieutenant and worked up to Colonel for West 42/43 and East 43 campaigns. That's where I stall.

I have followed past advice and suggestions from a few websites devoted to these games. I have come to the
conclusion that if you say you're winning the DLC Grand Campaign on the highest difficulty settings then you must
be lying.

It has nothing to do with better tactics- it's just sheer numbers-the allied AI just sends wave upon wave of units against the Axis and
no matter how experienced my units are or how good their quality, or how much prestige I have, I can't get
past the overwhelming number of units they throw at you in order to capture the objectives. By the time I wear down
the allies, the scenario is over and I'm a few objectives short.

Game after game has ended the same way no matter what I do. This is beyond a challenge- it's an exercise in futility.





joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 2:47:58 AM)

Thanks for the advice.

1. I do this regularly.
2. I don't use elite reinforcements during battle unless I want to keep units over 100 exp
3. I do have 1 or 2 88s. They're effective, but you can only use them against one air/tank at a time. Doesn't help when swarms of enemy are attacking.
4. I do this regularly.
5. I always upgrade to halftracks.
6. I do this regularly.
7. Good advice, except then the para units are stranded unless an airfield is nearby.
8. I do this regularly.
9. I do this regularly.
10. ?

Again, the problem is swarms of enemy units- not strategy or tactics.



James Ward -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 12:06:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Thanks for the advice.

1. I do this regularly.
2. I don't use elite reinforcements during battle unless I want to keep units over 100 exp
3. I do have 1 or 2 88s. They're effective, but you can only use them against one air/tank at a time. Doesn't help when swarms of enemy are attacking.
4. I do this regularly.
5. I always upgrade to halftracks.
6. I do this regularly.
7. Good advice, except then the para units are stranded unless an airfield is nearby.
8. I do this regularly.
9. I do this regularly.
10. ?

Again, the problem is swarms of enemy units- not strategy or tactics.


I general paly on Colonel or General and have had success. I'm no expert, I don't sit and think of optimal strategies and forces but you can win on a higher level than Colonel.

I found I need the maximum number of units deployed so getting SE units, for me, is key as are having my units survive even if they are only at 1 point. I try to upgrade enough to have some killer units but also keep my prestige level up just in case. Some units can last a lot longer so they aren't required to be upgraded immediately

I do not try to get every VP, just what is needed to win and whatever is easy pickings. It doesn't do any good to take a VP that gives you 50 prestige if you take 100 prestige in losses taking it. The only thing you get is experience and you can get plenty of that.
I also don't always try for a decisive victory. Marginal victories work just as well if you end up losing more prestige than you gain trying to rush to a decisive victory. I also don't try to kill every enemy unit, it tends to attrite my core down.

One unit I have found to be very helpful is the Strat bomber. I use it to deplete ammo on the tougher Russian tanks. Most of them do not have a lot of shots so if you can get them out of shots they are no threat at all. You need to be careful using them until you get control of the skies so having a decent fighter force is key. Also as mentioned artillery can be a big help if you are on the attack or if you are defending in terrain against infantry. Personally I'll take a tank over an artillery in most cases but some scenarios make the artillery a better choice.

When defending against the waves, don't be afraid to run. You usually don't need to hold all the VP's to win a marginal so keep that in mind.



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 3:19:32 PM)

Thanks for the advice.

Do you replace losses during battles, or if units are depleted do you just retreat them to a safe location?

I'm always afraid that if I don't take nearby cities, units will spawn from there and hit me from behind.

Don't I need to hold objective hexes?

I specifically aimed for a MV at Kharkov '43 because I saw how impossible a DV was for me there. A loss at Syracuse in the '42/'43 West campaign ended the campaign for me.

I have actually made it to '44 East once, but I gave up because it became a chore trying to hold off never ending waves of Soviets. I believe the game would work better if there were a series of relatively small battles- not Kursk or Stalingrad. If they want to use large battles like that, then if you win the battle it should alter the course of the campaign. All wins do is give you prestige, but the war ends the same- Germany ultimately loses.



James Ward -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 4:06:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Thanks for the advice.

Do you replace losses during battles, or if units are depleted do you just retreat them to a safe location?

I'm always afraid that if I don't take nearby cities, units will spawn from there and hit me from behind.

Don't I need to hold objective hexes?

I specifically aimed for a MV at Kharkov '43 because I saw how impossible a DV was for me there. A loss at Syracuse in the '42/'43 West campaign ended the campaign for me.

I have actually made it to '44 East once, but I gave up because it became a chore trying to hold off never ending waves of Soviets. I believe the game would work better if there were a series of relatively small battles- not Kursk or Stalingrad. If they want to use large battles like that, then if you win the battle it should alter the course of the campaign. All wins do is give you prestige, but the war ends the same- Germany ultimately loses.


I replace losses in game if I have to and can afford too. Sometimes you can withdraw a heavily damaged unit to the rear and keep it alive until the mission is over but in Bagration it is important to keep your tanks up to strength so I definitely have done it in that one. Same with fighters until you own the skies. Bagration can be one of the most difficult missions.

It's also not apparent but having a larger core than you can use is actually a good thing, if you can afford it. You get a chance to build up all your units experience and have a good variety to choose from based on the particular mission. Some mission a lot of artillery or tac is great and in others it is not so good. Having the ability to deploy the best force for the mission is really helpful. Another thing to pay attention to is the tank 'family' you upgrade to. The IV tanks are not as good as the III series early but later you can upgrade them to the IVJ far cheaper than switching a IIIJ to one. I tend to earmark my III series to end up Panthers and my IV series to end up KT. It helps me visualize what my core will have in later years. Try to have a mix of the two types and you can save some prestige.

Also don't get caught up with upgrading to the newest model as soon as it is available. In many cases it is over kill to upgrade your whole force and it can kill your prestige. If you have a ton of it then upgrade all, if not do it slower and you will have prestige for emergencies like in battle reinforcement.

Against the Western Allies it is more important to have a big fighter force and some Strat bombers (as these are the best against ships). Your tanks will generally outclass them western allies so you won't need as many. It's pretty much the opposite on the East Front, tanks rule and the air war is secondary for the most part. Keep that in mind as you build your core so you have enough of the right units available for the front you choose to fight on.



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 4:20:06 PM)

Do you ever own the skies in this game? It seems that the enemy has endless numbers of aircraft, too.

I'm pretty good with upgrading, but unless you can build lots of Panthers/Tigers- it's going to be difficult to beat the Russian tanks. Tigers in '43 cost over 1200 prestige each.

I do space out upgrades.

I don't agree that the air war is secondary in the East. Are you playing vanilla PzC or DLC Grand Campaign? The Russians usually have 24+ aircraft each scenario.




RandomAttack -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 5:22:38 PM)

Personally, I'm a big "air superiority" fan. It may take a couple of turns to get there, but I think it's worth it. But there are other ways to go, it just depends on YOUR style. Rogo727s tips above are valid for anyone-- although I'm not a big fan of antitank units.

I do get a kick out of the "I beat the campaign on Manstein with just 1 infantry and 1 arty" threads though... [:D]





joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 5:28:01 PM)

How is air superiority achieved? I don't think the number of allied aircraft ever diminishes regardless of how many I destroy through the campaign.



James Ward -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 5:59:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Do you ever own the skies in this game? It seems that the enemy has endless numbers of aircraft, too.

I'm pretty good with upgrading, but unless you can build lots of Panthers/Tigers- it's going to be difficult to beat the Russian tanks. Tigers in '43 cost over 1200 prestige each.

I do space out upgrades.

I don't agree that the air war is secondary in the East. Are you playing vanilla PzC or DLC Grand Campaign? The Russians usually have 24+ aircraft each scenario.




I have played both versions, along with many of the mods, to completion. Eventually I own the air but sometimes it take more than a few turns.

While the air war in the East cannot be ignored it's the tanks that will settle it there. In the West the air war is much different. In Normandy there are about 20 allied units at start so you better have more than a few fighters or else you will be wiped out quick.

In the East 5-6 fighter units can usually get you by. You need to be selective on the order you try to take out the Russians. I try to eliminate their fighters first then go for their FB then their bombers. In the West I try to have 8-10 fighters/fighter bombers. The FB can finish off wounded Allied fighters and then go to ground attack later in the mission if necessary. They are also not bad against straight bombers especially with experience and a hero or two. In the West it pays to have the best fighters, preferably with many stars and heroes. In the East I find the FW's are good a lot longer. I typically don't go for the better planes until late 44/early 45 on the East Front.

When the KT is available you should begin to upgrade in order to have almost an all KT/Panthers tank force. You may have a few PZ IV's but they can't be the bulk of your tanks units even on the West Front.

I rarely use Tiger I's as you get no break when you upgrade from any earlier tank and no to go to the KT. It's not that I don't like the Tiger I, it's the cost I hate. My favorite SE unit is a Tiger I :). I begin to upgrade my PZ III's to Panthers as soon as I can and they end up as G's. I use my PZ IV's to go to KT if possible. It's expensive but not as expensive as going to Tiger then KT.



James Ward -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 6:03:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

How is air superiority achieved? I don't think the number of allied aircraft ever diminishes regardless of how many I destroy through the campaign.


You can eventually wipe out the allied air force. The key is to kill a unit, not just knock it down to 1 point.



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 6:39:22 PM)

Hmmm...I'm missing something then, because I do wipe out as many fighters as possible. I weaken them with my overstrength FW190s and finish them off with overstrength ME109Gs or FBs. I then destroy all their bombers, but by the next scenario, they're all back.

I usually have about 8-10 fighters, mostly FW190s, a couple of ME109Gs, plus 2 Stuka tank busters, 2 strat bombers, and an ME110G.

If actions I took in one scenario, like wiping out their air units, carried over into following scenarios, then I would like the game better. I reached East '44, and I don't see that happening.



RandomAttack -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 6:45:32 PM)

What James said. I usually have about 6 fighters and 2-3 tac bombers. Set traps for them (just out of LOS, so they fly into you-- if you are lucky you will kill a couple in ambush). I've heard different strategies, but I always go for enemy fighters first-- and complete the kills! I would rather eliminate 2-3 than just damage 5-6 (you will then have to fight them again after they reinforce...) Then their bombers are all sitting ducks. You almost always have a few turns between "waves". I ALWAYS get air superiority at some point-- not to say the "spawning" waves don't get their shots in, but it's manageable.

You are right-- AI losses don't carry over. The briefings give hints at how much enemy air to expect.



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 6:58:55 PM)

Sorry- I don't see this happening in my own experience. Six fighters??? I have over that and I do exactly what you suggest. After destroying their first wave of air units, the second and third waves come.

These tactics works in the DLC Grand Campaigns '39-'42, but starting in '43 I get my clock cleaned.



James Ward -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 7:00:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Hmmm...I'm missing something then, because I do wipe out as many fighters as possible. I weaken them with my overstrength FW190s and finish them off with overstrength ME109Gs or FBs. I then destroy all their bombers, but by the next scenario, they're all back.

I usually have about 8-10 fighters, mostly FW190s, a couple of ME109Gs, plus 2 Stuka tank busters, 2 strat bombers, and an ME110G.

If actions I took in one scenario, like wiping out their air units, carried over into following scenarios, then I would like the game better. I reached East '44, and I don't see that happening.


Oh I thought you meant in a particular scenario. Yes they always come back. They are like a bad penny, with cannons!



James Ward -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 7:04:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

Sorry- I don't see this happening in my own experience. Six fighters??? I have over that and I do exactly what you suggest. After destroying their first wave of air units, the second and third waves come.

These tactics works in the DLC Grand Campaigns '39-'42, but starting in '43 I get my clock cleaned.


You can do it, just be patient and realize you will take some lumps from their air units initially. You can also use AA units if you need to, they are much cheaper than fighters and if they are 88's have the added value of tank killers after the air war is decided.

In the West 6 air units is not enough, even in Italy. In the East you can certainly own the air.

If the Russian is using his prestige on his fighters then he's not using it on his tanks so it's what you want! :)



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 7:17:10 PM)

The air war is only a part of my problem with this game- the sheer number of enemy units is staggering. Artillery and air units protecting other units only get one shot. After that, my units are attacked three and sometimes more times until they're crippled or destroyed. I'll be thinking that after destroying so many of the enemy that I'm making a dent in their force, and then I check the map (after surrendering) and there are still many more units surrounding objectives.

Like I said, I'm doing all of the things that have been suggested here, but I'm getting killed (and frustrated) on Colonel and can't believe people have won on higher difficulties.



James Ward -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 7:32:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joe6778

The air war is only a part of my problem with this game- the sheer number of enemy units is staggering. Artillery and air units protecting other units only get one shot. After that, my units are attacked three and sometimes more times until they're crippled or destroyed. I'll be thinking that after destroying so many of the enemy that I'm making a dent in their force, and then I check the map (after surrendering) and there are still many more units surrounding objectives.

Like I said, I'm doing all of the things that have been suggested here, but I'm getting killed (and frustrated) on Colonel and can't believe people have won on higher difficulties.


Try adjusting where you start. If you are defending it's usually not necessary to start right up front, maybe deploy farther back. Make the AI move to you if you can. That way his force isn't so concentrated and you can take them out piecemeal. Never be afraid to retreat, you can usually go back later.

If you are attacking try to go slow and steady. You have enough time in most of the later scenarios to get a marginal victory.

Which ones in particular give you the most trouble?



joe6778 -> RE: Anyone who says they beat this game on higher difficulty must be lying (2/19/2014 7:49:57 PM)

I have tried that. I stayed put after setting up and waited for the attack. I was able to ambush some and I took some damage, but the final outcome is the same; when I advance on my objectives, I get crippled by more enemy (sometimes coming from off map as in Syracuse 42/43 West).

The last scenario I played that made me move away from playing again was Kursk.

Like I said, I have made it once to East '44. But I'm getting blasted on Colonel and I can't believe others can win on higher difficulties- it's the numbers!

If I'm the attacker against a force at 2:1 or 1:1 odds, that's challenging. If I'm attacking a force at 1:2 or 1:3 odds, that's suicidal and that's DLC after '43.



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