F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (Full Version)

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incredibletwo -> F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/17/2014 3:42:39 PM)

Hi all!

For the F-14 Tomcat there isn't a loadout with 6 AIM-54 Phoenix. I understand the argument that it's heavy and stresses the airframe etc etc, however, the aircraft were_designed for a loadout of this weight. There are many pictures available demonstrating this (there's even a db pic of an F-14 with 6 Phoenix!) [:)]

Also, the EA-6B can carry up to 4 HARMs. In the db the loadouts are limited to only 1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_EA-6B_Prowler

Could we please see revised loadouts for the F-14s and EA-6Bs in the next db update? Please? Please? [&o]

Cheers!




Dimitris -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/17/2014 4:18:36 PM)

For the F-14:

quote:


> Indeed, the saddest element of this story is that no Tomcat has ever
> flown a Fleet Defense Bravo loadout of six missiles in active (cruise)
> service. They cannot safely recover or (single engine ROC) launch with
> that much weight.
> And further they cannot themselves maintain adequate smash to
> aggressively maneuver at altitude to set the geometry vs. fighter
> targets without going supersonic which both eats fuel and instantly
> compresses the fight. Indeed, most of the squadrons did even not
> deploy (before
> 1988 anyway) with the
> outboard horn rails because they were draggy as hell and a pain to
> mount/dismount in trade for the more common Sparrow or even Sidewinder
> (6X2 or 4X4) alternate loadouts. Lastly, the USN only produced about
> 5,000 AIM-54s and of those, only about half were the
> AIM-54C+ 'ECCM/Sealed'
> (either as new or by conversion) which had the seeker, warhead fuzing
> and autopilot upgrades to be any good against more than the dumbest
> threats. The /total/ number is only sufficient to allow every Tomcat a
> Fleet Defense Alpha loadout of 4 missiles. One time. And the actual
> magazine count during cruise was never more than a fraction of even
> this (back when there were actually two squadrons of 12 Tomcats on
> every deck).


All the photos of operational F-14s with 6 Phoenix rounds are of aircraft operating from land, or light dummy rounds.




mikmykWS -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/17/2014 4:34:56 PM)

Okay took a quick look and the 4 Harm and 1 centerline ALQ does seem to exist but seems to be a waste of a jammer as obviously you're removing most of its jamming and loiter capability. Request added.

See D's explanation on the Phoenix loadout. If you can find some operational data or a photo we'll take a look. That is pretty fair.




ComDev -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/17/2014 4:40:29 PM)

Yeah the 6x Phoenix loadout was not an operational loadout [8D] The 6x Sparrow loadout was not used either.

EA-6B ICAP-II flew/flies with only one HARM operationally, for a single target-of-opportunity shot. The the A-7 and F/A-18 did/do the SEAD job. Remember that an ALQ-99 pod is usually worth more than a HARM. EA-6B ICAP-III sometimes fly with 2x HARMs.

Would love to see a photo of an (operational!) plane with this loadout.




incredibletwo -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/17/2014 5:38:35 PM)

Re EA-6B: I couldn't find any pics with more than one HARM on a rail.

Plenty of F-14 w/ 6x Phoenix though! [:D]
Here's a sample.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jframe.html#http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/f-14-6buff.jpg|||F-14 Tomcat
And a dated, but relevant source. His references seem ok:
http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_fighters/f14_2.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-14-specs.htm
And the official U.S.N. page on F-14 history:
http://www.history.navy.mil/planes/f14.htm

I'll trade you the F-14 increased loadout for the EA-6B one-shot HARM. Fair? Lol [:D]

Cheers!




ComDev -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/17/2014 7:36:32 PM)

The first 6-phoenix loadout photo comes up at regular intervals [8D] I happen to have a book with several photos from the same photoshoot along with some details that state that the photos were part of a promotion/show-off thingie, and the plane (naturally) took off and landed on a conventional runway. Also, aircraft carries usually deployed with less than 100 Phoenixes aboard, typically 4x rounds per aircraft.

So 6x Phoenix loadouts were never carried operationally. The intended Phoenix replacement, the AIM-152 AAAM, weighted in at ca. 650lb (depending on version) and allowed 8x (!) to be carried in addition to 2x AIM-9s.

Basic info:
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-152.html

Great info incl weapon configuration drawings:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1989/1989%20-%201130.html

Program background details:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2548.30.html

Info and photos:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/aaam.htm

Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-152_AAAM

Details incl photos:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/weapons/q0124.shtml




ComDev -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/17/2014 8:13:38 PM)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2548.30

"While the Navy is not setting specific requirements in its planned request for proposals, it is asking industry to come up with solutions to the service's air-to-air needs. The basic thrust of the Navy's program is to enable its fighter aircraft to carry more missiles with longer range. The service is seeking a missile with less than a 9-in. diameter and a weight no higher than 650 lb., compared with 1,000 lb. for the Phoenix.

The F-14 is capable of carrying six Phoenix missiles, but can land on the carrier with no more than four because of fuel and weight limitations. The service expects the F-14D to take off and land with at least eight AAAMs.

The advanced missile also would be carried in the conformal wells on the F-14, where the Sparrow missile is now stored. The McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 would carry at least four AAAMs under Navy plans. The Grumman Aerospace A-6F is a candidate for the AAAM, and the service's advanced tactical aircraft (ATA), under development, is another candidate."




incredibletwo -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/18/2014 6:31:59 AM)

Have a look about halfway down, user name AAR90.
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/96279/

Plus, part of my scen has F-14s land-based in Japan, so I kinda need the full loadout [:D]

Any plans to introduce the AIM-152 AAAM?
My scen is a hypothetical. Pretty much a re-write of history post-WW2.

Cheers!




ComDev -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/18/2014 4:54:41 PM)

Hm interesting, will have to dig up more info on CVW and Crazy Bob [8D]

Have added the following (all marked HYPOTHETICAL in the sim):

F-14D Tomcat -- United States (Navy), 1999, AIM-152A AAAM, General Dynamics/Westinghouse
F-14D Tomcat -- United States (Navy), 1999, AIM-152A AAAM, Hughes/Raytheon
AIM-152A AAAM -- General Dynamics/Westinghouse
AIM-152A AAAM -- Hughes/Raytheon

New aircraft loadouts are:

A/A: AIM-120C AMRAAM, Heavy MiGCAP
A/A: AIM-120C AMRAAM, Light MiGCAP
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Heavy BarCAP -- GD/WH
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Heavy BarCAP -- H/R
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Light BarCAP -- GD/WH
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Light BarCAP -- H/R
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Light+ BarCAP -- GD/WH
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Light+ BarCAP -- H/R
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Peacetime BarCAP -- GD/WH
A/A: AIM-152A AAAM, Peacetime BarCAP -- H/R
ADM-141A TALD -- GD/WH
ADM-141A TALD -- H/R
TARPS Recon Pod [IR/EO] -- GD/WH
TARPS Recon Pod [IR/EO] -- H/R

The Heavy BarCAP loadouts carry no fewer than 8x AIM-152s (!) and 2x AIM-9s. The GD/WH loadouts have the Multifunction Airborne Track Illuminator [MATI] pod. Please also note the AIM-
120C loadouts on the F-14D. And no bombs of course (blærgh!) [:D][:D]




RoryAndersonCDT -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/18/2014 9:02:52 PM)

If only the Soviets didn't collapse in 1991, we might have seen some serious BARCAP developments along these lines!




mikmykWS -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/18/2014 9:07:27 PM)

It shows how much respect the US Navy had for the targets of those missiles as well.




incredibletwo -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/19/2014 1:15:15 PM)

Crikey! What an addition! [X(]
Thanks Ragnar and Mike.
I guess the USN will be getting the F-14D a few years early (in my scen) hehe... [:D]
I like the look of the GD/W AAAM. SO much like AMRAAM, eh?
Baloogan, I think you'll like my scen, but it's shaping up that only a CRAY 2 will run it!! Lol

Cheers!




NakedWeasel -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/19/2014 9:12:17 PM)

Sounds like my Coldwar NATO vs WARPACT scenario. More than 7100 active units at mission start... I should be able to run it at 15X in about ten years time, after I upgrade two or three times.




incredibletwo -> RE: F-14's Phoenix and EA-6B's loadout question/request (2/20/2014 11:45:14 AM)

By active you mean flying/steaming around? [:)]
That would be awesome to play! And yeah, I know what you mean! Lol




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