RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (Full Version)

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freeboy -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/22/2014 2:59:30 AM)

is ther any rules or known house rules to simulate Pearl HArbor?



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/22/2014 6:47:58 AM)

Read Section 15 - Surprise.

However, I have seen Japan get surprised on the way to do Pearl so what's even more important is how US Entry works.

Also, all countries that don't start the scenario at war, can be surprised.



freeboy -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/22/2014 3:13:04 PM)

But the US fleet could be anywhere



composer99 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/22/2014 3:50:27 PM)

It could be, but the US has several incentives to maintain a fleet in the Honolulu hex, once it has passed the appropriate US entry option. The fleet, per the rules, must be at least 2 CVs (other than USS Langley) and at least 8 battleships.

First, it's easier for the US to manipulate the tension of its entry options against Japan if the fleet is in port. This means the US has an easier time getting the tension levels it needs for its gear-ups and for declaring war - or reducing tension if it wants to pile up entry (say, to pass the oil embargo, or the option that lets the Commonwealth reinforce Rabaul).

Second, the US suffers a penalty to attempts to declare war against Japan if the fleet isn't in port.

This means that, if Japan sails a fleet out during the turn, and the Allies get an intervening impulse, the US will sail out the two carriers and maybe one battleship, and the other BBs will get pounded during the surprise impulse.

If Japan gets lucky and, say, sails the fleet out late in a turn, and the turn ends before the Allies go, and the Axis goes first the next turn, there could be carriers sitting in port when the Japanese carrier planes come calling.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/22/2014 7:05:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

But the US fleet could be anywhere

Perhaps but if they are not somewhere that is garrisoned then really bad things can happen if they are surprised and Japan invades their port hex.

Plus the above mentioned advantages for keeping the fleet at Pearl once you have sufficient US Entry to pass that Entry Option.




freeboy -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/24/2014 1:59:58 AM)

this game is amazing...
Im still super vague/hazy on why stuff happens but I ordered the physical add on with printed rules and eagerly await sitting on sofa reading the rules
Joy.. I have watched enough of the videos and tried out the scenarios to realize its going to take sometime....

thanks for the help



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/29/2014 1:06:36 AM)

What happens if the US tries to DOW Germany and / or Japan and fails?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/80FC62165DC340979D568CF671FB930F.jpg[/image]



composer99 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/29/2014 1:41:44 AM)

If the US fails an attempted declaration of war, obviously it is not at war with its intended enemy.

Further, the US loses one chit from the entry pool and one chit from the tension pool of the power group (Germany/Italy or Japan) it failed to declare war against.



Joseignacio -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/29/2014 6:38:12 AM)

... and it can try to do it again later again.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/29/2014 7:26:09 PM)

Once it has to lose a chit and doesn't have a chit in that pool, it can never DoW the associated major power(s) for the rest of the game.



Joseignacio -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/30/2014 12:52:55 PM)

True but, was that the case? Didn't see anything saying it was the last one. To be true, it would be pretty strange that USA would try to get in the war with only 1 chit, the odds should be from bad to impossible.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/30/2014 7:06:27 PM)

I don't think that was the case. I was expanding upon the explanation because this is the WiF School sub-forum.



Joseignacio -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (9/30/2014 8:03:14 PM)

ok [sm=happy0065.gif]



redboot -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/6/2014 11:37:59 PM)

What does the Terrain Effects Chart mean when it says "Either's choice"? Can't find an explanation in the manual.



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 12:17:07 AM)

It means that picking the table is handled by the "standard" method of checking who has the armor (or mech if no arm are present) advantage.

As opposed to say, mountains or cities, where the defender picks no matter how many tanks you have hitting the place.



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 1:36:13 AM)

Should this attack be automatic?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/69F4B66BB50C4C21A1E129354371779E.jpg[/image]



composer99 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 2:25:27 AM)

It looks like it's not actually shifting down the odds levels for the weather. If it was in fine weather it would be straight up correct, but it isn't.

If you haven't reported this as a bug already, report it.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 2:26:08 AM)

The 4-3 shows a status of disorganized. If it is not in supply it only has a defense strength of 1. It is 3 hexes from Pskov and can only trace 2 to a supply source, although there could be an HQ under the 4-3 Mil or 2-5 Mech.

The odds being shown are 5-1 with 29 attacking 4 which doesn't jive with the unit being OOS, though.



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 2:31:23 AM)

The closest HQ is 3 hexes away. So is the unit out of supply? If so, the attack was correct, but the odds shown aren't? Still a bug?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/3A5983E0967640DAACB9580AB03671E9.jpg[/image]



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 2:39:17 AM)

Definitely an auto attack then, but displaying the incorrect info is a bug.



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 3:13:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Definitely an auto attack then, but displaying the incorrect info is a bug.
O.K., I'll post it in the tech support then.



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 5:29:43 AM)

Sorry, I thought the weather was rain, based on the -2 weather effect. Even though I saw it was 1D10, I guess I've been playing so much 2D10 lately that the minus 2 led me astray.

Supply range in snow is 3, so the 4-3 was in supply. So not an auto attack and certainly still deserving of the post you made in Tech Support.



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/7/2014 10:59:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Sorry, I thought the weather was rain, based on the -2 weather effect. Even though I saw it was 1D10, I guess I've been playing so much 2D10 lately that the minus 2 led me astray.

Supply range in snow is 3, so the 4-3 was in supply. So not an auto attack and certainly still deserving of the post you made in Tech Support.

No Problem. [:)]

Thanks for all your help too! It's a big factor in me learning this game. [8D]



rkr1958 -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/8/2014 12:37:23 AM)

Do partisans do more than deny control to the other side? Can they control a hex for their side? Specifically, does the presence of the 2-3 partisan in the port of Dubrounik, Yugoslavia allow the allies to disembark a unit there or would the allies still need to invade? I think it's the later (i.e., the allies must invade), because when I toggle the control flag the German flag is shown in that hex. My question really is can the allies disembark a unit in Dubrounik?

[image]local://upfiles/31901/DA60B1EED2E842589BBFD7DC8073E683.jpg[/image]



paulderynck -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/8/2014 3:18:19 AM)

Only a Yugoslav unit. Only units of the same nationality as a partisan may disembark there from a TRS/Amph (that they cooperate with). So that's impossible unless the partisan shows up before Yugo gets conquered, and a Yugo unit can be picked up from somewhere by a TRS/Amph belonging to its controlling major power.

In general they can also air transport in but since the ATR must be able to stack in the hex and Yugoslavia has no ATRs, that's impossible.

Usually where this rule can benefit anyone is with French and Russian partisans.



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/9/2014 9:01:29 PM)

Actually, I have a secondary question, when you get red partisans.

Say you have a 0 strength red partisan set up shop somewhere in India. The CW would have to invade that hex, right? But the Partisan doesn't actually control the hex, it just denies control to the CW. So there would be no notional, and no matter if I invaded with a 1 strength infantry division from the one box, it would still be automatic, right?



Joseignacio -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/10/2014 7:05:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

Actually, I have a secondary question, when you get red partisans.

Say you have a 0 strength red partisan set up shop somewhere in India. The CW would have to invade that hex, right? But the Partisan doesn't actually control the hex, it just denies control to the CW. So there would be no notional, and no matter if I invaded with a 1 strength infantry division from the one box, it would still be automatic, right?


quote:


11.14 Invasions

...

Each hex defends against an invasion with a notional land unit, in addition to any actual land unit in the hex. The notional unit is the same nationality as any major power or minor country with a real unit in the hex (owner’s choice if more than one). If there are no real units, it is the same nationality as the major power or minor country that controls the hex.


So the notional unit would be the same nationality as the partisan. But also...

quote:


13.1 Partisans (option 46)

...

Partisans don’t control hexes. However, they can interrupt the benefits of controlling a hex they occupy. If a partisan is in a hex:
ï enemy major powers can’t move units, factories or resources into the hex (except by overrun ~ see 11.11.6); and
ï enemy major powers can’t use any resources or factories in the hex; and
ï enemy major powers can’t trace supply into the hex; and
ï units of the partisan’s nationality (only) can debark, or paradrop, into the hex without having to fight a notional unit; and
...


So even if it was not clear, here it tells us anybody not the same nationality as the partisan has to fight the notional which is with the partisan.



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/10/2014 6:11:15 PM)

The thing is,

quote:

11.14 Invasions


Invasions allow land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes in a sea area you have transported them to.


And this isn't an enemy held coastal hex. It's a partisan "held" coastal hex, since partisans don't control hexes, and only disrupt some effects of the actual controller's control of the hex. Control changes as per the rule in 2.5


quote:

Control of a hex changes when:
ï an enemy land unit (except for partisans ~ see 13.1, and supply units ~ see 22.4.10) enters it (the major power entering with the most factors if more than one); or



And since partisans don't control the hex, I'm not even sure you can properly "invade" it at all. And yet it would be absurd to say you can just debark at sea to a hex where a hostile partisan is sitting. Hence my confusion.



Courtenay -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/10/2014 7:09:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ur_Vile_WEdge

And since partisans don't control the hex, I'm not even sure you can properly "invade" it at all. And yet it would be absurd to say you can just debark at sea to a hex where a hostile partisan is sitting. Hence my confusion.


I am confused, both by the rule and by which side's partisan is in the hex. I will try for an exhaustive listing:

A friendly, cooperating partisan is the hex:
You may debark units in the hex, no matter which side owns the hex.

A friendly, non-cooperating partisan is in the hex:
You can not invade or debark into the hex. You can not stack with that unit. You can't move onto the hex with a non-cooperating unit from an adjacent hex, so why should you be able to invade that hex?

If you really want to invade a hex with a friendly, non-cooperating partisan, you must move the partisan out of the hex first. (The sequence of play allows you to invade the impulse you do this, as invasions happen after land movement.) If the hex is friendly owned, you can now debark into it, and if enemy owned, you may invade. This of course restores the enemy notional unit in the hex, so you will have to fight your way ashore, unless the enemy's notional's strength is reduced to zero for some reason.

An enemy partisan is in an enemy owned hex:
You can not debark into the hex, but you can invade, fighting both the notional and the partisan (and any other enemy units in the hex.)

An enemy partisan is in a friendly owned hex:
Here is where the rules are confusing. You can not debark into the hex. Logically, one should be able to invade the hex, but I can find no rule allowing you to do so. However, everyone I know of (including myself) thinks that such an invasion is legal. Here is the rule:
quote:

Invasions allow your land units to attack enemy held coastal hexes that touch upon a sea area to which you have transported the land units.
You may only invade an enemy controlled coastal hex that has at least 1 all-sea hexside (at least part, but not necessarily all, of this coastal hexside must touch upon the sea area where the TRS is located).
The key, I think, is the word "held" in the first sentence. That word is not defined in WiF. I believe, however, that everyone interprets "held" to include a hex held by an enemy partisan, even if it controlled by your side. Unfortunately, the second sentence uses the word controlled, and a rules lawyer might argue that this means you could not invade the hex. In this case, I would say that someone made a mistake, and allow the invasion. Then the question would arise: is there a notional unit?



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: New to the game - Basic Questions (10/10/2014 7:40:12 PM)

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I did mean an enemy partisan in a friendly controlled hex, which is why I brought up the example of a CW unit facing against a red partisan in India. And that was indeed my question. If there's a partisan in a hex you (sort of) control, and you have to invade it, do they get a notional?



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