O-Chit against China? (Full Version)

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lab_eu -> O-Chit against China? (2/25/2014 1:00:07 AM)

Hi,

We're playing a solitaire game through Dropbox. We give some basic instruction to each other in order to not interrupt the impulse too often and it is going quite well for now, we are already in M/A 1940.

I'm in front of a good player, weather has been bad in the last turns but I managed to kill 2 Nat Chinese units this last turn. For summer, I move the bulk of my army in North Temperate hoping to kill as many units as possible. I also builded a MECH in order to have some options.

Is it a good idea to use an O-Chit in order to really hurt the Chinese and get a quiet front on that side? Should it be against the NAT or the COMM?

Any opinion?



[image]local://upfiles/47387/4CF2ACE32D07440888DD588AF927F315.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: O-Chit against China? (2/25/2014 2:41:03 AM)

Interesting question.

I think off the cuff, most players would say no, not worth using a O-chit as the Japanese to beat up on the Chinese. The Japanese need their O-chits for super combines imo. The Japanese war machine is a whole different beast with one of those available than not.

In your current game, what optional rules are you playing with? If you have Chinese weakness going, it means the Nationalists are less of a threat and although they can maneuver around your lines, they can't really attack and break them. The Chi-Coms are a far more dangerous opponent as they have the quality of units that can actually hurt the Japanese.

For an O-chit, you would want to have Yamato on the scene to take maximum advantage and also have at least 8 units in range as well.

In the above game, the Chi-Coms are in good defensive positions behind the river, etc where the Japanese can't really get at them very well. Even if they could, they could not kill enough Chi-Com units to make a big difference. The Chi-Coms would simply fall back a bit into the mountains, build some units and come forward again. Part of what has to be done against the Chinese in general is cripple their building ability. As long as they are cranking out 6+ build points, it is hard to make any headway against them.

At this point, depending on what you have available, it may almost be better to put your faster units in Canton and head for Kweiyang as fast as you can. The Chinese can't fall back fast enough really to do a ton about it and if they give ground, then you have somewhat accomplished your objective. You need to get Changsha and getting the two resources in the south (one is next to your Marine and the other is near Changsha) will help your own production. If you can put pressure on Kunming and into Chungking, he has to fall back and actually would prefer you to kill some of his units so he can bring them in to help defend where you are making an attack.

My overblown 2 cents. [:D]



celebrindal -> RE: O-Chit against China? (2/25/2014 3:33:31 PM)

I had pushed my commie opponent back to Lanchow and was debating on using it to do the finishing blow so I could swing south to the capital during a J/A turn.. got a couple of breaks in both combat rolls and opposing player mistakes that I didn't really need it. But to be on the safe side I had just built one so that if I did need it I would have one ready for the super invasion.

I might still depending on how tough he makes it to get the last two factories in the south but it's debatable now.



Ur_Vile_WEdge -> RE: O-Chit against China? (2/25/2014 3:56:37 PM)

The general idea I used to play with is, "Don't use the O-Chit in china unless you think you can fully conquer it" or at least drive the Commies out of Lan-Chow AND get that plateau with Cheng-du and Chungking.


Of course, that was with the samller map, where it was easier to pull these things off and you needed more raw power to just push through those mountain lines. I honestly don't know what it would be like with the new mapscale, but my gut instinct is if it's just to do some damage and hope for a "quiet front" you won't get that. Use the O-Chit to cripple, or not at all.



Zorachus99 -> RE: O-Chit against China? (2/26/2014 12:39:16 AM)

If I get less than +4 from the effect of the O-chit, I will almost never use it.

I think long-term, as in pincer attacks, attacks to break supply, or take a key map area. Because of the huge amount of land reorganization as a side effect, relatively low odds attacks (+8 to +12) is quite worthwhile as you will very likely be completely organized at the end of the impulse.



lab_eu -> RE: O-Chit against China? (2/26/2014 4:35:52 AM)

We're playing with Nationalist attack weakness. In fact, I'm really scare by the new scale. Been used to the 1-1 chinese attack where he lose 2 units and flip.

Here, the potential infiltration, the supply problems and the partisan can make the japanese life miserable.

I make a lot of mistake with my units and HQ positioning and the bad weather make me pay dearly for this. It is also my first game with the 2d10 table.

All this said, my last two attack where successful (at +10 and +12) and I think the chinese position is not very comfortable now.

[image]local://upfiles/47387/8ADC8BF6D7D2471AB603B905748D3FF2.jpg[/image]



AxelNL -> RE: O-Chit against China? (2/26/2014 6:53:04 AM)

I think that the Jap needs to beat China as much as possible, as soon as possible. Ignoring China can only be temporarely as the Comm's will not be ignoring the Jap after Barbarosse releases the limits on land movement.
I would rather have the 15bp's of the O-chit in the form of units, than on combat. Even to conquer the last factory, as that might mean that Jap is reduced to cimbined impulse for a while.



brian brian -> RE: O-Chit against China? (2/26/2014 3:44:03 PM)

You can game the system in China by waiting a bit until their land force pools are built out. Then smash only one of the 2 factions in China. The other faction then won't be receiving any reinforcements. In the game pictured above, this could work well, as though the Chinese look to have a good position, they committed a major strategic blunder by allowing the Japanese into Nanning that easily while the rest of the Nationalist army is that far forward, as others have mentioned.

The Japanese could drop the O-Chit on the ChiComm front and cause Mao lots of casualties, while simultaneously launching a war of maneuver against the Nationalists. As long as they didn't attack the Nationalists, they would have a very hard time getting units in position to protect their heartland in Szechwan province. A Japanese ATR and their maximum 3 cavalry divisions would rock Chiang's precarious world.

Yes, this is "gamey". But the whole situation in China is fairly absurd, with each side having very ahistorical capabilities. So game away.



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