RE: unplayable lag time (Full Version)

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AxelNL -> RE: unplayable lag time (3/2/2014 6:22:27 PM)

It did not move - it became more dominant due to the fixes to improve the supply calculations (these look fine, BTW). Steve has killed another of its 9 lives today, and we are expecting the next beta soon.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: unplayable lag time (3/2/2014 6:31:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zartacla

the lag time makes the game unplayable after the stat of Barbarossa, so I'm in favor of releasing a hotfix for that three days ago. As it stands now, it's taken far too long to put out a fix for that. Other bugs are a separate issue.

If the triangle bug moves, you're still going to hear about it from me. If it moves to somewhere that is a more active area of the map, you'll hear even more from me. If it moves to a less active part of the map, then I think it's a no brainer.

For example, if moving it north means that half of Russia is affected, then leave it be until you've killed it completely. If moving north means Sian/Lanchow is affected, then there's probably not much difference for us than the current issue.

I have the response time for moving units better than it has ever been.

There are still some bugs for recalculating supply that I want to fix (the beta testers' advice is to fix those before releasing a new version).

I'll either do Hot Patch today (Sunday) or Matrix will do a new Update tomorrow (Monday) - if they can find room in their schedule.

As for the myth of the Bermuda Triangle, it is just that, a myth. An overseas supply bug was due to not propagating improvements throughout a previously explored path.

The details are: after finding a path to a port that required 4 Basic Path Hexes, an improved path requiring 3 Basic Path Hexes was not carried forward to the port itself. The search algorithm then concluded that overseas supply was impossible since 1 BPH was needed to go overseas. If the shorter path was found first, then all was well. The failure only occurred when the search first found a round-about path to the ports. I fixed this with two corrections: (1) improved paths are now propagated correctly, and (2) the search algorithm finds the shorter path first.



Dabrion -> RE: unplayable lag time (3/2/2014 9:04:20 PM)

Does this concern the bug where you cannot leave rails overseas in rain? Or the Checkiang rail line? And the unit duplication in the F8 window? And the cases where HQ trace to themselve?


I am unclear how paths can improve now that you find shorter paths first ;) What speaks against Dijkstra's? Most routing protocols use it and you should have only positive weight cycles.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: unplayable lag time (3/14/2014 11:13:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Does this concern the bug where you cannot leave rails overseas in rain? Or the Checkiang rail line? And the unit duplication in the F8 window? And the cases where HQ trace to themselve?


I am unclear how paths can improve now that you find shorter paths first ;) What speaks against Dijkstra's? Most routing protocols use it and you should have only positive weight cycles.


That is pure paranoia on my part. Belt and suspenders.



michaelbaldur -> RE: unplayable lag time (5/21/2014 7:00:55 AM)


I will bump this to the top.

do you consumers still have this issue



AxelNL -> RE: unplayable lag time (5/21/2014 7:19:30 AM)

using the latest public beta - I assume?



joshuamnave -> RE: unplayable lag time (5/21/2014 12:02:37 PM)

It was better for a while, now it's pretty bad again (although not as bad as it was when I first posted this). Move times inside Russia after the war starts can be pretty bad. RTB times for fleets are randomly bad - from some sea zones, there's no lag time at all, but from others it can be pretty rough. For example, axis subs in Scapa Floe take a while for me to RTB. Italian ships in the Eastern Med also.



AxelNL -> RE: unplayable lag time (5/21/2014 1:58:50 PM)

RTB is bad at my side as well as described, the bigger the stack the longer it takes. But for something happening only at the end of the turn it is less important than during land moves. The picking up time is the first on my list to be tackled (again).



Centuur -> RE: unplayable lag time (5/21/2014 2:50:42 PM)

It doesn't bother me. However, I'm used to this during beta testing. I would say that it isn't important to fix, since it is dangerous to do so (the last time we ran into an awful lot of regression bugs, which resulted in the very long time this clearing of supply bugs has taken, and still is taking). So lets wait until the final supply patch is made and than ask everyone here if this should be improved now, or never.



carpenkm -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/28/2014 11:31:48 AM)

Is the unplayable lag time still a live issue? I have been experiencing this for a while, mainly around land movement and production, got really bad after Russia in the war. Just updated to latest patch and at first glance it doesnt seem any better. I know my laptop isnt the fastest, so could it be memory or processor?



michaelbaldur -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/28/2014 12:33:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: carpenkm

Is the unplayable lag time still a live issue? I have been experiencing this for a while, mainly around land movement and production, got really bad after Russia in the war. Just updated to latest patch and at first glance it doesnt seem any better. I know my laptop isnt the fastest, so could it be memory or processor?


yes it is still a issue. and it is not your computer.



carpenkm -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/29/2014 8:03:41 PM)

So if its as bad as I'm suffering has anyone actually finished a game? I will be retired by the time I get to 1945.[&:]



Viktor_Kormel_slith -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/30/2014 6:02:47 PM)

Yes, that is correct. We suffered it in our first game. It became a nightmare after 1943.In our current we have detected too and the troubles arrive when Russia is at war. I think it must be a hightest priority issue but Iīm afraid itīs difficult to fix.[:(]



Centuur -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/30/2014 6:40:09 PM)

The problem occurs due to the supply calculations. There has been effort made to reduce the calculation time, but everytime this was tried, regression bugs regarding supply happened and the rules weren't enforced correctly anymore.

Personally, I think we need to live with it...



carpenkm -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/30/2014 7:21:42 PM)

I can understand the complication of calculating supply, but for me the lag makes the game virtually unplayable. Sitting watching an egg timer is no fun! What I dont understand is that even simple moves can hang for example moving a unit in its home country one hex outside a city? Someone in another thread suggested i try the latest beta - will see if this helps.

Viktor - I'm only in mid '42, but all major countries are in the war and active so it's proabably as bad as it is going to get. If not I will need to shave in between impulses!!!



Viktor_Kormel_slith -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/30/2014 7:39:53 PM)

When I play solitaire I read a book while pc is computing[:(] Centuur if this canīt work better will be a disaster to the game, I hope Steve thinks something there must be a way[sm=innocent0001.gif]



michaelbaldur -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/30/2014 7:43:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

The problem occurs due to the supply calculations. There has been effort made to reduce the calculation time, but everytime this was tried, regression bugs regarding supply happened and the rules weren't enforced correctly anymore.

Personally, I think we need to live with it...




live with it ..

so customers should live with a unplayable game ..

I hope they give refunds then



dhucul2011 -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/30/2014 8:52:46 PM)

I'm getting a 30-40 second lag in bringing up the production planning screen for each nation. It just started all of as sudden in the last impulse.

Has this been reported?



carpenkm -> RE: unplayable lag time (6/30/2014 8:55:09 PM)

I agree Michael. Some players may have time to spend and other may have lots of books to read [:D] personally I would rather be delivering Stalin a killer blow before I die of old age.



Courtenay -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/1/2014 3:51:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dhucul

I'm getting a 30-40 second lag in bringing up the production planning screen for each nation. It just started all of as sudden in the last impulse.

Has this been reported?

Using 1.2.0.3, my production planning screen is coming up almost instantly, within less than second. This is much faster than it has come up in the past. There is something local to either your game or your computer. Try rebooting; if it still happens, post your game, and let others see if they have the same problem.

(My program says 1.2.0.3, but I am not (yet) a beta tester, and the beta testing functions do not seem to be enabled. I think this is just a glitch in the version number, and I am really running 1.2.0.2.)



AxelNL -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/1/2014 6:00:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dhucul

I'm getting a 30-40 second lag in bringing up the production planning screen for each nation. It just started all of as sudden in the last impulse.

Has this been reported?


I had this as well in a recent GW campaign. The turn after it was OK again. My conclusion was that the particular convoy situation of that turn made the resource transportation calculations go skyhigh.



WarHunter -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/1/2014 6:25:13 AM)

Just so its clear not everyone plays MWiF as if it was candy canes and lollipops. Here is an example of preliminary production with a 45 sec wait time between nations.

45sec x 9 = 405 sec to complete the Prelim. add another 405sec for final production. It may or may not be faster or slower depending on your computer.

Go ahead download. i double dare ya,

I've had production phases go as high as 1min and 20sec per nation.

As i've posted before. it does not happen all the time.
It does have something to do with the bug ridden convoy code.

This game is currently being played as a 2 player game in solo mode. 1.1.9.2 version



Viktor_Kormel_slith -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/1/2014 12:20:28 PM)

I can live with production delays but I canīt with unplayable lag time when I move each unit in the board! [:-]



warspite1 -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/1/2014 12:56:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Just so its clear not everyone plays MWiF as if it was candy canes and lollipops. Here is an example of preliminary production with a 45 sec wait time between nations.

45sec x 9 = 405 sec to complete the Prelim. add another 405sec for final production. It may or may not be faster or slower depending on your computer.

Go ahead download. i double dare ya,

I've had production phases go as high as 1min and 20sec per nation.

As i've posted before. it does not happen all the time.
It does have something to do with the bug ridden convoy code.

This game is currently being played as a 2 player game in solo mode. 1.1.9.2 version

warspite1

What does this mean please? I googled it but nothing came up....



Centuur -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/1/2014 1:22:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Just so its clear not everyone plays MWiF as if it was candy canes and lollipops. Here is an example of preliminary production with a 45 sec wait time between nations.

45sec x 9 = 405 sec to complete the Prelim. add another 405sec for final production. It may or may not be faster or slower depending on your computer.

Go ahead download. i double dare ya,

I've had production phases go as high as 1min and 20sec per nation.

As i've posted before. it does not happen all the time.
It does have something to do with the bug ridden convoy code.

This game is currently being played as a 2 player game in solo mode. 1.1.9.2 version




This one is very long indeed. Never seen it this long. I'm going to report this as a bug. You can live with a small delay of a couple of seconds (even 20-30 is OK, since it is only a couple of times at turns end), but it took me over 3 minutes to get from one major power to the next. That's too much, I believe.



Courtenay -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/1/2014 4:25:18 PM)

On my machine, it took well over a minute, more like a minute and a half.

The British have a trade agreement to send a resource to Russia, and there is no possible way to do so. I wonder if the program is spending time trying to figure out a way to get a resource to Russia?

Also, there are not enough convoys adjacent to Britain to run all the CW factories, so that the program may be trying to figure out a way to get all of the factories running, and does not realize that you can't get 15 resources through 14 convoys.

Aside from that, the convoy network is dead simple, far simpler than in my game, where the change from one country to the next takes less than a second. In my game, though, all resources are able to get to where they want to go, with no frustration.



WarHunter -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/3/2014 11:09:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Just so its clear not everyone plays MWiF as if it was candy canes and lollipops. Here is an example of preliminary production with a 45 sec wait time between nations.

45sec x 9 = 405 sec to complete the Prelim. add another 405sec for final production. It may or may not be faster or slower depending on your computer.

Go ahead download. i double dare ya,

I've had production phases go as high as 1min and 20sec per nation.

As i've posted before. it does not happen all the time.
It does have something to do with the bug ridden convoy code.

This game is currently being played as a 2 player game in solo mode. 1.1.9.2 version

warspite1

What does this mean please? I googled it but nothing came up....




Its just my own made up Festus-isms [:'(]

http://www.eviltwin.velvetsofa.com/Curtis/guide.html



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/5/2014 8:05:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: carpenkm

Is the unplayable lag time still a live issue? I have been experiencing this for a while, mainly around land movement and production, got really bad after Russia in the war. Just updated to latest patch and at first glance it doesnt seem any better. I know my laptop isnt the fastest, so could it be memory or processor?

I would like to have any saved games where Land Movement is causing long delays. I'll see what I can do about reducing the recalculation time for supply.

---

The rules state that supply should be recalculated at the end of each unit's move. When you move a land unit into a hex controlled by the enemy, it now becomes controlled by your side. That means supply needs to be recalculated for all the units (and secondary supply sources: SS) on your side that were OOS before the unit moved. In addition all the units (and secondary supply sources) on the other side that were in supply need to have their supply status recalculated.

The program is quite efficient at determining if an in-supply unit/SS is still in supply. It has stored the path that was previously used by the unit/SS and checks to see it hasn't been damaged in some way. If the old path isn't good any more, then it will need to do a new search. New searches may take some time, but they rarely need to be done. Taking out a primary supply source for the enemy might cause a lot of recalculation, especially if there were several SS tracing supply to that primary. But again, that is quite rare.

The delays are mostly in trying to find supply for OOS SS when you have taken a new hex. The program doesn't know that the hex in the middle of the USSR has no bearing on the OOS status of a minor country capital in Africa. So it tries to find a path to a primary for that OOS SS. Those are rail paths. If no overland path is found, then the program tries to find an overseas path. Given a half dozen OOS SS in Africa (or in South America), the time to recalculate supply can take far too long.

One of the changes I made recently was to note when there is more than one SS on a rail network. If one of the SS is in supply, then all the others are too. The same is true if they are OOS. But things quickly get out of hand with that logic. A SS might be able to trace to a minor country capital that is a primary source for some units. For instance, a Korean unit in China which is controlled by Japan might not be able to trace a path directly to a city in Korea, but be able to trace a path to a Japanese HQ that traces to a Korean city. That search needs to be done if the Japanese HQ is OOS (unable to trace to a Japanese home city). Weird? Yeah, but that came up in a game.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/5/2014 8:09:21 PM)

And let me add that moving land units that have ZOCs around on the map means that hexes which previously were valid/invalid as part of a supply path may now be invalid/valid. That increases the number of instances where recalculation has to be performed.



carpenkm -> RE: unplayable lag time (7/6/2014 9:11:29 PM)

Hi Steve

Thanks for the response. I can certainly understand the complexity of supply having got it wrong in many and varied ways when playing the board game years ago.

I've tried to zip and upload the saved game (fingers crossed). The lag time seems a little random. In the attached it is Italy's land move. Moves in France generally ok (instant). For me the following moves took around a minute from placing to being able to continue:
Italian Celere 4-5 in hex 70,76 to hex 70,75 (one hex west)
MTN 4-4 from Karachi 2 hexes east (89,94 to 89,96)
Try moving to the German land move and Moving Manstein from 71,76 to 70,75 also similar. Many of the Russina Fromt moves are similar.

The lag also ssesm to either instant or ages (minute or more) with nothing in between. I havebeen playing this game for a while (dont get a much time as I woud llike to play) so it has gone through various upgrades over the months!

Also don't see why Italian 3-3 in 55,23 appears to be in supply whilst adjacent German units are OOS.

I would be really grateful for any help. Is it taking as long on your computer? If this is an ongoing issue, is there anyway to get the programme to behave a little more like a human and not worry too much about checking everything every move and perhaps only checking supply when it's relevant/needed. Could there then be a drop down menu for a player to request a supply check if in doubt? Just a thought - I'm not a programmer!

Regards

Keith



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