SARH Self Destruct (Full Version)

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Firov -> SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 6:55:29 PM)

I'm having serious issues in the Iron Hand scenario, and aircraft AI in general. My fighters, both MIG-29s and SU-27s will engage hostile aircraft that enter their AAW patrol zone with their R-77 missiles, and at the moment of launch they illuminate the target.

Unfortunately, the Russian military has trained their pilots in energy conservation a little too well and the radar illuminator is immediately shut off after launch. Hilarity ensues.

The funny thing is, they don't even divert course. It's not that they no longer have an angle on the enemy aircraft, they just decide to shut down the illuminator, for whatever reason. They do this no matter what RTB Winchester is set to, and even if I disable evasive maneuvers. It's extremely frustrating...

I'm playing v1.03 and have included the save game.



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 7:14:53 PM)

Are you using 1.03 RC1 or RC2. That was fixed in RC2 I think.



Firov -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 7:20:18 PM)

I only see the post for RC1? Can you post a link where I can find RC2? I'll give it a shot and see if it fixes this infuriating bug.



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 7:29:22 PM)

Try looking though the entire thread. I am working off my tablet...



Firov -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 7:36:39 PM)

Okay. I found it. It does seem to work better, though they still break off instantly if they have RTB Winchester enabled, which of course causes them to lose sight of the target. This is a pretty nasty bug, and they really shouldn't leave SARH missiles flying blind just because they think they might have left the stove on back at base.



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 9:11:37 PM)

I have not seen the RTB issue in 497/498. With all the testing I did on AA-10s, I'd have expected to see it.



Firov -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 9:14:06 PM)

I experienced it with the Mig-29s in Iron Hand. As soon as they launched their 2 R-77's they'd immediately turn to return to base. I'll do some more testing, but I'm pretty sure on this.

Edit - Just confirmed this. The RTB Winchester bug isn't fixed. Even the AI is experiencing it. Their Mig-29's turn tail the instant they fire their 2 SARH missiles, which makes my job a lot easier.



mikmykWS -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/3/2014 10:49:32 PM)

Just tested and intercept and patrol missions seem okay. The fulcrums fire and then hold letting them guide.

How are you attacking? Mission driven or manual. If possible post a save. Would like to get to the bottom of this one.

Thanks!

Mike



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 12:49:51 AM)

Just ran three different tests with Su-27S and all three times they waited for last SARH missile to expend before heading home.



Firov -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 1:46:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Just tested and intercept and patrol missions seem okay. The fulcrums fire and then hold letting them guide.

How are you attacking? Mission driven or manual. If possible post a save. Would like to get to the bottom of this one.

Thanks!

Mike



Happy to oblige. See the attached save.

I've got 2 MIG-29's on an intercept course to an enemy MIG-29. I believe I've already set them to fire all of their SARH missiles once they're in range and able to illuminate the target, if not, you may need to manually set that.

Anyway, once they fire the group will dissolve and they'll both head home, much to the delight of the enemy Mig.

I hope you can fix this. It's a serious issue and it's massively hampered the AI in this scenario, since their fighters only have the 2 medium range missiles.



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:01:36 AM)

I don't think there is anything to fix. The AA-12 has its own terminal guidance. It is fire and forget. Only SARH needs terminal guidance. If you let the engagement play out, the missiles go active about 5-10 miles from the missile. IIRC the 12 was built to destroy non-maneuvering targets so it was fired in the general direction and then terminally guided on its own radar.

I am firing against modern F/A-18 and odds at range are like 5%.



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:04:03 AM)

btw...I ran several tests with Mig-29K and AA-12.

edit...Also tried an AIM-120 and you get the exact same behavior, as expected from an active guidance missile.



Firov -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:28:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
I don't think there is anything to fix. The AA-12 has its own terminal guidance. It is fire and forget. Only SARH needs terminal guidance. If you let the engagement play out, the missiles go active about 5-10 miles from the missile. IIRC the 12 was built to destroy non-maneuvering targets so it was fired in the general direction and then terminally guided on its own radar.

I am firing against modern F/A-18 and odds at range are like 5%.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
btw...I ran several tests with Mig-29K and AA-12.


... What?! Forgive me, but what does this have to do with anything?

Have you looked at the save file? They aren't using active radar missiles, I wish they were. They're using SARH R-27R missiles, which require the firing aircraft to maintain a lock on the target. Unfortunately, my pilots are in such a rush to get home that they forget about that last part.

Your post is equivalent to me going into a thread where people are reporting bugs with Harpoon missiles and saying, "I don't think there's a problem here. I've run some tests and my torpedoes are working great!" It might technically be true, but it's such a ridiculous non sequitur that it's actually quite amusing.



mikmykWS -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:30:50 AM)

Observed the behavior. Logged and we'll take a look. Thanks for your time!

Mike



mikmykWS -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:32:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Firov

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
I don't think there is anything to fix. The AA-12 has its own terminal guidance. It is fire and forget. Only SARH needs terminal guidance. If you let the engagement play out, the missiles go active about 5-10 miles from the missile. IIRC the 12 was built to destroy non-maneuvering targets so it was fired in the general direction and then terminally guided on its own radar.

I am firing against modern F/A-18 and odds at range are like 5%.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
btw...I ran several tests with Mig-29K and AA-12.


... What?! Forgive me, but what does this have to do with anything?

Have you looked at the save file? They aren't using active radar missiles, I wish they were. They're using SARH R-27R missiles, which require the firing aircraft to maintain a lock on the target. Unfortunately, my pilots are in such a rush to get home that they forget about that last part.

Your post is equivalent to me going into a thread where people are reporting bugs with Harpoon missiles and saying, "I don't think there's a problem here. I've run some tests and my torpedoes are working great!" It might technically be true, but it's such a ridiculous non sequitur that it's actually quite amusing.


No harm done. We appreciate people helping even if they might be wrong.

Mike



Firov -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:38:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
No harm done. We appreciate people helping even if they might be wrong.

Mike


Granted, and don't misunderstand me, I'm not actually upset at thewood. If anything I actually was amused (and perplexed) by his ridiculous non-sequitur.

Anyway, thanks for looking into this Mike. Since you've been able to replicate the bug I'm sure it will be resolved in due time.

I actually just bought the game this week but already there have been quite a few patches. I can't fault your efficiency.

Edit - Oh, if I can provide any other information to make it easier to track down/fix, just let me know.



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:43:15 AM)

Your post said R-77...

"I experienced it with the Mig-29s in Iron Hand. As soon as they launched their 2 R-77's they'd immediately turn to return to base"

I duplicated what you stated. I have my own set of test files I have been working with and added in what you stated. In QA testing you start by building out from scratch first to narrow down issues cleanly. SO I built exactky what you stated...A non-sequitor would be using something you said you didn't have a problem with.

So do you have an issue with R-77s or not.



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 2:48:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Firov

I experienced it with the Mig-29s in Iron Hand. As soon as they launched their 2 R-77's they'd immediately turn to return to base. I'll do some more testing, but I'm pretty sure on this.

Edit - Just confirmed this. The RTB Winchester bug isn't fixed. Even the AI is experiencing it. Their Mig-29's turn tail the instant they fire their 2 SARH missiles, which makes my job a lot easier.


I colored where I got my info from...

Wiki description...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-77_(missile)



mikmykWS -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 3:10:08 AM)

No big deal guys.

Mike



thewood1 -> RE: SARH Self Destruct (3/4/2014 3:12:58 AM)

Your save had the issue. I checked the database and its four versions behind. I updated to the newest db (408) and started the scenario from the start. Look at the image attached. Missiles are about to impact and the Mig-29 has not done a RTB. ROE is set to RTB on winchester. Looks like you might be running an older version of the game. I am running 1.03 RC2. That is the version with the fixed SAHR.



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