question on turn order decisions

question on turn order decisions (Full Version)

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wile1411 -> question on turn order decisions (3/16/2014 9:33:50 PM)
Just wondering if it's just my imagination or can you influence the opponents choices? Sort of a hard question to ask, but here goes: Are the opponents moves decided between the player committing a move and the resolution phase? (If so, I feel this is kinda of cheating on their part as they have the extra information on what my move will be, before making their own) Or, are the opponents moves decided with the information available at the end of the action phase, but before a player commits their move? I only suspect the former as the opponents seem to make a lot of perfect moves without mis-guessing my moves. A good example is on a 4 lane Utica track and when I've out in front but running slower than the rest of the field. The opposition are right behind me and constantly on my behind pushing forwards. When approaching an easily green turn (but not in the turn) and the opposition generally would have used the straight to pulled in one lane for the overtake. They are still at least 1 length behind me. My way of handling this is to use "bash left" is anticipation of them overtaking. For my games, 100% of the time the opponents always pull back in behind me to avoid the potential bashing as they pass. This way I can always bash before each corner and they never commit to overtake that should easily be doable. Not sure if this is just a thing I'm seem of the 4 lane tracks, but it's remarkable consistent. For the larger tracks I get a lot more variation and haven't been able to find the perfect block.

Gargoil -> RE: question on turn order decisions (3/17/2014 12:36:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wile1411 Just wondering if it's just my imagination or can you influence the opponents choices? Sort of a hard question to ask, but here goes: Are the opponents moves decided between the player committing a move and the resolution phase? (If so, I feel this is kinda of cheating on their part as they have the extra information on what my move will be, before making their own) Or, are the opponents moves decided with the information available at the end of the action phase, but before a player commits their move? I only suspect the former as the opponents seem to make a lot of perfect moves without mis-guessing my moves. A good example is on a 4 lane Utica track and when I've out in front but running slower than the rest of the field. The opposition are right behind me and constantly on my behind pushing forwards. When approaching an easily green turn (but not in the turn) and the opposition generally would have used the straight to pulled in one lane for the overtake. They are still at least 1 length behind me. My way of handling this is to use "bash left" is anticipation of them overtaking. For my games, 100% of the time the opponents always pull back in behind me to avoid the potential bashing as they pass. This way I can always bash before each corner and they never commit to overtake that should easily be doable. Not sure if this is just a thing I'm seem of the 4 lane tracks, but it's remarkable consistent. For the larger tracks I get a lot more variation and haven't been able to find the perfect block. The way to test this would be to see if they make a different move (this time, they attempt to pass) if you do not go to bash them. My opinion is that you are seeing a "logical" move on the AI's part. Since it makes sense for you to attempt to ram them, it makes sense for them to know that and avoid it.

wile1411 -> RE: question on turn order decisions (3/17/2014 12:45:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gargoil The way to test this would be to see if they make a different move (this time, they attempt to pass) if you do not go to bash them. My opinion is that you are seeing a "logical" move on the AI's part. Since it makes sense for you to attempt to ram them, it makes sense for them to know that and avoid it. I've still got to test the not bash option - but it's soooo hard to let them overtake and not do anything. [;)] As far as logical goes, I see that as a cheaty way for the opponents to play. I make my moves based on best guesses on what I think they will do. If they are making their moves "knowing" what I've already planned, there would be no point doing certain actions as the results would be certain / pre-programmed to always happen in that situation. I find there would be more personality in the opponents if there is a slim chance they go for the risky dive down the inside. I know I've seen some dives happen on the larger tracks, but the smaller tracks seem to be a done deal once you're in front.

Niessuh -> RE: question on turn order decisions (3/17/2014 6:59:23 AM)
Every AI team decide their next turn order the same way as the player do, using an expert system ruleset (sort of) with the same info entry that the player could observe. When all orders are decided (player order included), the new turn starts and calculations are made treating all teams equally. Chariots at full speed with some speed upgrade usually remains at the outer side of a four line circus because it is too risky to enter the inside lane at this speed. They are not reacting to your orders, they are just too afraid of line change. In that kind of circuses, with developed horse teams, who takes the lead after the first turn has a great advantage for victory

76mm -> RE: question on turn order decisions (3/17/2014 8:12:47 AM)
Well, I have to say that I think you did a very good job developing the ruleset--the variety in AI conduct really keeps me guessing. The most irritating AI behavior for me is when they: 1) deliberate cut in front of me on the straight-aways (very frequent); and 2) when they ram or lacerate on the turns, when I am generally either trying to control or change lanes. In both cases, and in most others, it is difficult for me to figure out when the AI intends to make these moves.

wile1411 -> RE: question on turn order decisions (3/17/2014 12:12:52 PM)
Wow Turnopia! Big tip of the hat to your AI. As mentioned above, your got the opponents making great decisions and they are very uncanny in the movements they make. Having said that, isn't an Auriga with 2 SKILL on the 1-in-from-outside lane of a 4 lane track fairly safe? (Arrow is around greeny-yellow)

Niessuh -> RE: question on turn order decisions (3/18/2014 6:47:35 PM)
Well, maybe they are being too conservative at four line tracks, let me think of that. This changes should be done very carefully because you could easily turn the race into a bloody mayhem!

wile1411 -> RE: question on turn order decisions (3/18/2014 9:46:09 PM)
very much understand and agree on the investigation first. I've only played a few hundred races at the moment across three campaigns and I've only had one race where there was only one runner left (wasn't me unfortunately) :(

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