A disappointment & an irritant (Full Version)

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dhanger -> A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 2:46:11 AM)

I really want to like this game, but this is a very incomplete and unfinished product. The critics who wrote articles extolling the virtues of this game clearly made no effort to determine how badly this game is screwed up. CW2 is a mess that crashes routinely and unpredictably, and then it wipes out your saved files. In point of fact the whole 'save game' system is screwed up. I was looking for a major upgrade from the first game, and this is not it. AGEOD should be fundamentally embarrassed for putting out such a completely broken product; this standard of performance is simply not acceptable in any business or industry; and it is something I expect AGEOD to address promptly. Not all your customers are schmucks, and this one is a well-known published writer who will be happy to elaborate in detail about his experiences with this product. As another has already observed, spending hours with this game only to have it completely blow up on you, repeatedly, becomes a very negative experience. I have been in business for 40 years; any employee in my employ responsible for such a product as this would be summarily fired. If I did it, I would jump off a cliff.


AGEOD, your name is your bond as well as your brand, and neither are playing very well right now. People don't do business with me because of my politics, my religion, or anything but the simple fact that I am honest, prompt in my performance, and the product is always perfect, or I will personally make it so. You folks need to fix this and apologize for the mess this early distribution is. As for you published critics: I am not certain there is any longer reason to trust you, is there? Critique legitimately, or why bother?



dhanger -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 2:49:01 AM)

...



Aurelian -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 3:22:48 AM)

Does not crash for me. Never has.



zakblood -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 6:34:39 AM)

99% of all crashes are caused by operating system, either missing files, corrupts etc

most companies only see it as an error when a few people have the same results with the same hardware and will patch, if only one reports an error and they can't replicate it on their or similar hardware it points to user machine and not their code etc

bad or missing files, normally re installing game, plus DirectX, NET Framework etc etc and other stuff as game directs you to solves most for some people, update all drivers, have all patches for o/s and game installed.

check anti virus and spyware status and make sure they are both up to date and good programs, and run both plus use an online one to double check, just to make sure :)

last resort post in tech support section, with screen shots or crash log, typing dxdiag.

give details as in o/s used, version number and patch level, vga card make and driver number installed etc, they will be able to tell you more of what they need to know.

very very last resort, re install windows, fixes 99.9% of all errors as long as you get the latest drivers / bios when re installing and don't use the dvd/cd that came with your hardware,

when re installing, better to make an image, so you can go back to it if you have errors later, a multi dvd backup is my choice, then a re install only takes 20 mins max and you have a clean pc with all drivers and your good to go

if it didn't fix the error, then most of the time it's hardware, not software (a re install that is)



good luck



loki100 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 7:42:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dhanger

I really want to like this game, but this is a very incomplete and unfinished product. The critics who wrote articles extolling the virtues of this game clearly made no effort to determine how badly this game is screwed up. CW2 is a mess that crashes routinely and unpredictably, and then it wipes out your saved files. In point of fact the whole 'save game' system is screwed up. I was looking for a major upgrade from the first game, and this is not it. AGEOD should be fundamentally embarrassed for putting out such a completely broken product; this standard of performance is simply not acceptable in any business or industry; and it is something I expect AGEOD to address promptly. Not all your customers are schmucks, and this one is a well-known published writer who will be happy to elaborate in detail about his experiences with this product. As another has already observed, spending hours with this game only to have it completely blow up on you, repeatedly, becomes a very negative experience. I have been in business for 40 years; any employee in my employ responsible for such a product as this would be summarily fired. If I did it, I would jump off a cliff.


AGEOD, your name is your bond as well as your brand, and neither are playing very well right now. People don't do business with me because of my politics, my religion, or anything but the simple fact that I am honest, prompt in my performance, and the product is always perfect, or I will personally make it so. You folks need to fix this and apologize for the mess this early distribution is. As for you published critics: I am not certain there is any longer reason to trust you, is there? Critique legitimately, or why bother?


Hi

You are the only person I've seen here, or on the AGEOD forums, who is reporting the game as unstable. I've been playing it since release and never had a crash, I also play other AGE-games and very rarely encounter any processing errors.

You may find it better to post a request in the AGEOD tech support forum. But as above, it sounds like its a problem with your set up.



JeffroK -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 9:50:24 AM)

Maybe you guys need to look at the problems players such as Freeboy are having.



Jim D Burns -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 10:42:17 AM)

The only crashes I ever see in AGEOD games are when players play for too long at one sitting (probable memory leak issue). In a game as large as CW2 I try and exit/restart my program about every 4 or 5 turns. If I do that I never see a crash.

As to save games, when the above crash occurs it corrupts the save 1 folder. Simply go into your folders and delete the save 1 folder, then rename the save 2 to save 1 and your game will be back at the last save location.

Jim



Lecivius -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 3:11:54 PM)

No crashes for me.  Ever.  In this, or the predecessor game.  May I politely refer you to not be so inflamitory until you have troubleshot the problem?



mikecoch -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/26/2014 3:51:07 PM)

I am a LONGTIME lurker who hardly ever posts anything......

dhanger posting info sums it up nicely:

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/25/2014


Suggestion: Ask for help in trying to solve your problem before resorting to "Flame On" strategy. I have found that people on this forum are very willing/able to help when someone has a problem.






Gilmer -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/27/2014 12:19:00 PM)

I have had crashes but not a lot of them. It's annoying, but I have never really had enough issues with it to even post. I am not saying frequent crashes at all, but I have had it crash maybe 3 times since I bought it on the 1st day. I have the expansion as well. I think 2 of the crashes came after I bought the expansion.



zakblood -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/29/2014 1:45:43 PM)

if a game ever needed a demo, then this is one i'd like to see it made for, i'm on the fence with this title as i normally only play ww1 or 2 or later type wargames, so unless a demo is released so i can make my mind up either way i'll sit on the fence and watch for a sale maybe :)



loki100 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/29/2014 2:17:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

if a game ever needed a demo, then this is one i'd like to see it made for, i'm on the fence with this title as i normally only play ww1 or 2 or later type wargames, so unless a demo is released so i can make my mind up either way i'll sit on the fence and watch for a sale maybe :)


I doubt that one will ever be made. There are, however, demos for other AGE games, here's a link to Rise of Prussia. Since all the AGE games share a common heritage -ie province based, wego, strong emphasis on leadership, an approach to setting orders etc, at the least that will give you a feel for whether or not the essence of the game play is to your tastes. Rise of Prussia is the 7 Years War in Europe, so different timescale but may help answer the fundamental questions.



zakblood -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/29/2014 2:38:51 PM)

thanks, i'll dl and give it a try



Cavalier99 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/29/2014 3:46:46 PM)



It is statements like the one from Loki100 that are worrying me. AGEOD have always been a fine game company but I am becoming increasingly uneasy that with the exception of PoN that all of their offerings have become a variation on a theme. After a while when you've played one you've played them all as it does become somewhat repetitive that each offering follows virtually the same format. And with the increased churnout of games .... 3 scheduled for 2014 there is a danger of over exposure at least for this player who is becoming somewhat bored with 'lets do the same again but for a different era'.



kvob -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/29/2014 4:41:46 PM)

To be honest, I see very little difference in AGEOD using the same software engine for different eras and boardgame publishers using hex maps and counters for different eras. If it works then why not?



Jim D Burns -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/29/2014 7:56:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cavalier99



It is statements like the one from Loki100 that are worrying me. AGEOD have always been a fine game company but I am becoming increasingly uneasy that with the exception of PoN that all of their offerings have become a variation on a theme. After a while when you've played one you've played them all as it does become somewhat repetitive that each offering follows virtually the same format. And with the increased churnout of games .... 3 scheduled for 2014 there is a danger of over exposure at least for this player who is becoming somewhat bored with 'lets do the same again but for a different era'.



I agree there is a risk, but the proof is in the work put into the games by the developers. The game engine has undergone vast changes over the years and for the most part they try and make those changes backwards compatible but cannot always do so. CW1 was a completely different beast than its final patched up version. And CW2 is also completely different than any of the CW1 versions of the engine.

Were they to do the same thing as John Tiller and release tons of cookie-cutter games without doing any real work on the underlying game engine to improve game play, then I’d agree with you. But AGEOD has been constantly working to improve their game engine over the years and it shows.

You need to look under the hood to understand how much the game has evolved, and I’ve been playing their games from day one. I can assure you that the games are not cookie-cutter games using the same engine over and over like the Panzer Campaign series of games or really any John Tiller game.

Jim



loki100 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/29/2014 8:04:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cavalier99



It is statements like the one from Loki100 that are worrying me. AGEOD have always been a fine game company but I am becoming increasingly uneasy that with the exception of PoN that all of their offerings have become a variation on a theme. After a while when you've played one you've played them all as it does become somewhat repetitive that each offering follows virtually the same format. And with the increased churnout of games .... 3 scheduled for 2014 there is a danger of over exposure at least for this player who is becoming somewhat bored with 'lets do the same again but for a different era'.



I think they walk the line between common systems and real differences very well.

First, their games contain masses of specific stuff, not the least the personalisation of commanders and the various events and options.

Then they pick and mix between 3 systems:

simple supply vs supply push
complex command (army-corps-divisions) vs simple command (stack up your command points allocate units)
march to the sound of guns or single stack combat

Depending on which pattern they use, the games play very differently. So if you play the French and Indian Wars (ie WiA) then you need to move to supply (or take wagons), the low number of units means simple command works well and single province combat. The net result is a feeling of 2 weak armies probing in a vast region and seeking advantage. RoP has the opposite set and you get the feeling of organised states clashing with their main armies over terrain well known from previous wars.

I find RoP, RuS, AACW, all have key bits in common, but each is very much its own game. Play RuS with a RoP mindset and you will lose horribly.



mikeCK -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/30/2014 4:49:10 AM)

I agree. If you try things in BoA that worked in ACW...good luck. Winter effects, terrain issues, leadership abilities all have different effects. Even in ROP, I could put a nice big army in winter quarters with plenty of supply. In BoA, winter is a bitch and you better not get caught out in it or your army is trashed. Requires a different use of light troops than, let's say...ACW2. That type of stuff. The mechanics are the same but the strategies vary. I like the commonality frankly because once you've learned the mechanics, you can pick up any of the other games and start playing



zakblood -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (3/31/2014 6:59:07 PM)

after trying rise of prussia demo, i'm looking for something to play next week, just finished Germany At War Operation Barbarossa 1941, a really great game, so think i might buy this and give it a go, thanks all for making my mind up



Tamas -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/1/2014 9:18:05 AM)

Dhanger, I am sorry to read you are experiencing technical issues with the game. Please contact tech support on the address "support[at]slitherine.co.uk" and they will help you determine what is the problem and how to fix it.

Thank you!



Werewolf13 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/2/2014 4:58:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cavalier99



It is statements like the one from Loki100 that are worrying me. AGEOD have always been a fine game company but I am becoming increasingly uneasy that with the exception of PoN that all of their offerings have become a variation on a theme. After a while when you've played one you've played them all as it does become somewhat repetitive that each offering follows virtually the same format. And with the increased churnout of games .... 3 scheduled for 2014 there is a danger of over exposure at least for this player who is becoming somewhat bored with 'lets do the same again but for a different era'.



Paradox - does exactly the same thing. Exactly.

But - strangely - I find myself getting each new realease of their strategic level titles almost everytime. EU 1 thru 4. Victoria, Crusader Kings, HOI - different but not that much - and so on.

Didn't Pardox publish AGEOD stuff for a while?

Point is - building on past success is a time tested and proven business model.



Gilmer -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/2/2014 10:59:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cavalier99



It is statements like the one from Loki100 that are worrying me. AGEOD have always been a fine game company but I am becoming increasingly uneasy that with the exception of PoN that all of their offerings have become a variation on a theme. After a while when you've played one you've played them all as it does become somewhat repetitive that each offering follows virtually the same format. And with the increased churnout of games .... 3 scheduled for 2014 there is a danger of over exposure at least for this player who is becoming somewhat bored with 'lets do the same again but for a different era'.



Paradox - does exactly the same thing. Exactly.

But - strangely - I find myself getting each new realease of their strategic level titles almost everytime. EU 1 thru 4. Victoria, Crusader Kings, HOI - different but not that much - and so on.

Didn't Pardox publish AGEOD stuff for a while?

Point is - building on past success is a time tested and proven business model.


Yes, Ageod and Paradox had a partnership of some sorts, but it did not work out. Then I think they were back on their own for a little, then partnered up with Slitherine.



terje439 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/4/2014 12:25:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tamas

Dhanger, I am sorry to read you are experiencing technical issues with the game. Please contact tech support on the address "support[at]slitherine.co.uk" and they will help you determine what is the problem and how to fix it.

Thank you!


So stuff posted in the tech forum here is "useless"? Guess I will mail the files I got from one of my gamecrashes to the address above and see what they say.


Terje



Cavalier99 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/4/2014 7:06:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeCK

I agree. If you try things in BoA that worked in ACW...good luck. Winter effects, terrain issues, leadership abilities all have different effects. Even in ROP, I could put a nice big army in winter quarters with plenty of supply. In BoA, winter is a bitch and you better not get caught out in it or your army is trashed. Requires a different use of light troops than, let's say...ACW2. That type of stuff. The mechanics are the same but the strategies vary. I like the commonality frankly because once you've learned the mechanics, you can pick up any of the other games and start playing


I'm not denying that strategies have to change depending upon which AGEOD game you play. For me its that too much is common. Leader abilities split down to strategic/attack/defence. Stacking of units. Power ratings. Battle reports. Need I go on are becoming so similar from game to game. I accept I'm probably in the minority but they are starting to have the feel of John Tiller games. Each one different but basically the same. So the maps are better. We have decision cards but even with these the programmers say that they are optional and not integral to gameplay.

Take for example CW2. Whilst I was not expecting a complete new game given the success of AACW1 I don't think it was too much to expect a manual that reflected the additions to gameplay yet much of the original manual has just been regurgitated when it is so obviously out of date. And even my old lady when I first loaded it up said something along the lines of 'are you still playing that old game' When I told her it was a new game her response was 'you could have fooled me the music is exactly the same' Do you know I hadn't realised it but with the exception of the startup she was right.



Titanwarrior89 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/5/2014 7:46:42 PM)

Can you place this, head to head?



jwarrenw13 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/6/2014 4:23:23 PM)

Maybe there is similarity in the games because warfare through the ages has similar components. Leadership matters. Morale matters. Organization matters. Maneuver matters. Supply matters. Terrain matters. Weather matters. The elements of strategy matter. Today's Army officers still read Sun Tzu and study past campaigns.

Consider the US Army principles of war. Mass. Objective. Offensive. Surprise. Economy of force. Maneuver. Unity of Command. Security. Simplicity. Those would be true for Caesar and Grant and Lee. Maybe one game engine can do a good job of portraying the principles of war throughout the ages.

Grant's long campaign to capture Vicksburg reminds me of some of Julius Caesar's campaigns against the Gauls. There are the remains not that many miles from where I live of a canal Grant tried to dig during his Vicksburg campaign in an attempt to literally divert the Mississippi River from in front of Vicksburg. I can certainly imagine Julius Caesar attempting the same thing, and in fact he did dabble in river diversion a couple of times, as did other Roman generals.

http://www.nps.gov/vick/historyculture/grants-canal.htm

So I can see both sides here. I can understand those who don't care for the repetitive nature of a game system that uses the same base system to portray wars throughout history. But I can also understand those who see the beauty of such a system. I fall into the latter category. But I can understand those who are in the former category. I don't think there is a "right" side here. To each his own. And in this case the marketplace will decide.



Cavalier99 -> RE: A disappointment & an irritant (4/8/2014 5:21:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JW


So I can see both sides here. I can understand those who don't care for the repetitive nature of a game system that uses the same base system to portray wars throughout history. But I can also understand those who see the beauty of such a system. I fall into the latter category. But I can understand those who are in the former category. I don't think there is a "right" side here. To each his own. And in this case the marketplace will decide.


And they are appropriate sentiments on which to end.



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