specnaz in Minsk? (Full Version)

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garga3 -> specnaz in Minsk? (3/31/2014 8:17:49 AM)

I have a question about this strange battle with the mighty russian commandos in Minsk (camouflaged as a 3CV rifle div shown with 16def) in a server game with Mick (version .14)

It seems to me the problem is that i attacked with panzer+motorized (because when i then attacked with 2 panzers i didnt see such inflation). As there are no penalties on my side i am suspicious that my combined armed bonus(if such exists) was given to the soviets making the 3CV division into a 140strength power armed marines.

I am new to the game, there might be a reasonable explanation, still 40 multiplier seems a little to high to me so i prefer to ask.

I have exactly same russian strength (a little less) on a second hasty attempt which took down the fort(which is supposed to give x2), then i took the city with x2 panzer divs, the soviets having normal modified str(roughly 118 at that time).

Regards

[image]local://upfiles/48047/A137E1D4E95540A8A6F9E42E00A5367B.jpg[/image]



morvael -> RE: specnaz in Minsk? (3/31/2014 8:23:58 AM)

Dense terrain modifier (doubles infantry, halves AFVs strength). It is not shown properly in the initial combat CV values (I'm trying to patch this), therefore you won't see it, but it's included in the modified combat value.



garga3 -> RE: specnaz in Minsk? (3/31/2014 10:33:12 AM)

[X(]

cv3 - fort 1 , Light urban - shown 164(16.4) - modified 1398(139.8)
cv3 - fort 1->0, Light urban - shown 159(15.9) - modified 513( 51.3)
cv3 - fort 0, Light urban - shown 122(12.2) - modified 181( 18.1)

Oh my god this means 3x3 cv divisions will have > 1000(10000) defense in heavy urban?? [X(]. I guess i better have my infantry go for mushrooms then, not for Moscow or Leningrad.

Anyway thank you Morvael, there must be also a good leader involved and i think i will isolate and interrogate him after his hangover [:D]



morvael -> RE: specnaz in Minsk? (3/31/2014 11:13:46 AM)

The truth is 164 was more like 328 (dense modifier not shown), and the 1398 is actually 13980. With all the doublings to the base CV value from morale, experience, fatigue, leader combat skill, leader morale skill (and some others like supplied units in urban terrain) tests it's not uncommon to get such a high final value (CV x2 x2 x2 x2 x2 x2 grows really fast). Remember that modified combat value is calculated many times during combat (as attacker advances on the opponent) and in every case high difference between values may lead to the attacker breaking the attack. Modified combat value at the moment of breaking attack is the one you will see in the report. Therefore always the winning side will show a high value, while the losing side will show a low value. Your attack might have been going fine (your CV was higher than enemy's initial CV, and you had higher - on average - modified CVs along the way), but at some step there happened something bad (you failed a lot of rolls while the enemy did not) and the attack was called off.

All in all, you didn't attack with proper forces (infantry) and with proper advantage ratio to counter urban terrain defense bonus, nor was the enemy isolated. On the other hand with repeated attacks you managed to exhaust him and finally prevail.



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