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OzoneGrif_slith -> Advanced questions and answers (5/25/2014 8:42:07 PM)

Hi everybody. With a friend we made a short study over DW tonight and I've had a few questions. The rules have changed in Universe, sometimes the Galactopedia is wrong or incomplete, and some things are hard to make sense of.


Here are the things we understood, please fix if wrong :

-> Colony growth is affected by taxes, the seven Essential strategic resources (Steel, Lead, Carbon Fiber, Polymer, Silicon, Hydrogen, Caslon), with a bonus for low populations (<500M), and some facilities

-> Happiness doesn't affect growth
What is happiness purpose? Is it only to fight rebellions and tax evasion? Why is happiness so easy to keep high?

Edit: Actually it does affect growth indirectly (but not the number on the planet info). A happy planet attracts migrants, and migrants are somehow a growth.

-> Development is calculated from Population (10%/100M, up to 50%), Luxury resources (5% up to 50%), Super Luxury resources (30% if at least one present, not cumulative), some facilities (not cumulative? up to 40%?), and ruins

-> Strategic value is 10% of population x Development
But sometimes the numbers are off. How is Strategic value calculated exactly ?

-> GDP is calculated from strategic value (about 20% of it) - corruption - tax evasion - (Planet quality on the scale 50%=0 100%=1)
But sometimes the numbers are off. How is GDP calculated exactly ?

-> Planet size only affects the maximum population

-> Planet's quality only affects the maximum population and GDP

-> Resources became infinite in DWU
In previous versions they had a limited stock on planets, it seems to have been removed. Does it mean resources will only disappear and appear from random events?

-> Ships prices are x10.5 the price of all resources

-> Ships maintenance is about x3 the price of all resources
What happens if the price of a resource suddenly rises? Does the ship's maintenance rise with it in real time, or if it a fixed price at construction?

-> Free Trade Agreement gives a growing bonus up to 20% on all trade
But what does the amount of trade on the diplomacy screen means exactly? What is the temporal unit? Why won't that number fall to zero when I'm at war with that empire (after waiting four years for the test)? Is trade visible on the Empire summary? And more generally, how does trade works? because I've seen foreign resources being stockpiled on my worlds, sometimes by enemy races.

Edit: Answer is here => http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3619659

-> Mutal Protection Pact and Protectorates gives a growing trade bonus up to 30%


If you are still reading this, thank you :)
I will love you if you can lift these mysteries.



Bingeling -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/25/2014 9:11:12 PM)

That was a load in things I can play perfectly fine having no clue about :)

Happiness gives you room to tax, at least. Tax is a negative happiness modifier.

I can not remember limited resources on planets. Maybe it was so a long time ago.

Trade information is well hidden, there is the trade number, the relationship bonus from trade, and the bonus trade income. I wish there was some info about trade beyond what is there.

As for trade during war, it could be that trade is averaged over some period, and if so it could take a long war for it to become zero.



Osito -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/25/2014 9:35:24 PM)

Your question about why is it so easy to keep happiness so high is a good one. I often have a 100% tax rate on well developed planets, and have high happiness to. That feels somewhat counter-intuitive. I mean, 100% taxes means the population is paid nothing. I think it would be better if happiness was reduced on a different scale as tax increases - perhaps an exponential scale is needed.

So far as your other points are concerned, there was nothing that stood out and left me thinking "that's wrong", but I don't necessarily know you're definitely right.

Osito



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/25/2014 9:35:42 PM)

I'll hit a few of these:


I believe Colony growth is essentially affected by Happiness.

Happiness is affected by Taxes, Medical, Recreation, Planer Facilities, Ruins, Leaders, Government, Population, and Development (could be a few I missed).

The Development is affected by the resources available to the planet, and certain resource/Race combos have bonuses.


I don't believe resource storage has become infinite, but I do believe it has been raised.


Ship prices and maintenance are dependent on the cost of the resources.
As resource prices change, so will these two values - though there is a "smoothing" effect so prices aren't jumping all over the place.


The Trade number on the Diplomacy screen I believe is the annual trade bonus (Credits).
If you are at war with an Empire, I don't think you're going to have a FTA.
The other Empire stockpiles you see are actually what you are trading with that Empire, they just haven't arrived to pick it up yet (their Private ships will do that, not yours).





OzoneGrif_slith -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/25/2014 9:52:06 PM)

Thank you all for your answers.

quote:

That was a load in things I can play perfectly fine having no clue about :)

I just love to understand what's going on. When I played EU IV for the first time, I made all the calculations to understand everything in the game, and after a few hours, everything made sense. DW is being harder to figure out because we just miss some info. :)

quote:

As for trade during war, it could be that trade is averaged over some period, and if so it could take a long war for it to become zero.

I though that too, but after the fourth year I had a trade rise... which shouldn't be possible if it was an average.

quote:

Your question about why is it so easy to keep happiness so high is a good one.

Yes happiness isn't a challenge right now. I would love to see my population get unhappy when my starport is under attack, or after bombardments... If the population is feeling unsafe and unhappy, it could turn to the enemy or rise, making it even harder to defend your planet. I know the game can turn a population, it just needs better happiness mechanisms.

quote:

I believe Colony growth is essentially affected by Happiness.

I did many tests using the editor, and changing happiness didn't change the growth rate at all. Or am I missing something?

quote:

I don't believe resource storage has become infinite, but I do believe it has been raised.

I based that statement on the editor. The stock of resource on a planet is gone. Only remains the percentage.

quote:

As resource prices change, so will these two values - though there is a "smoothing" effect so prices aren't jumping all over the place.
The Trade number on the Diplomacy screen I believe is the annual trade bonus (Credits).
The other Empire stockpiles you see are actually what you are trading with that Empire, they just haven't arrived to pick it up yet (their Private ships will do that, not yours).

Cool, that's good to know. Anyone can confirm that?

quote:

If you are at war with an Empire, I don't think you're going to have a FTA.

It should be that way yes but So far Trade is still a mystery. When at war, trade shouldn't occur at all. Freighters should be destroyed. Or maybe some still manage to pass through the enemy lines?



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/25/2014 10:04:48 PM)

The Happiness value change sometimes takes a while to kick in, but it's been some time since I've dug into this.

The % on resources is the richness of the deposit, not how much there is.

The Trade number on the Diplomacy screen is the only portion of the Trade statement that I'm not 100% on.
I recall Elliot mentioning the smoothing on one of the Test releases, so I'm pretty sure about that one.

Another thing about Trade is you'll generally have some trade even with Empires you don't like, the FTA & MDP are bonuses above and beyond that.
Trade Embargos should stop trade to the affected Empire, but it can sometimes be ignored.
If you have the Embargo and a planet Blockaded, then that planet is very unlikely to see any incoming resources.






elanaagain -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 12:06:20 AM)

What is the "dense energy bank' that you get when you send a ship into be reverse engineered, (scrap at a yard)?



OzoneGrif_slith -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 2:16:30 AM)

quote:

What is the "dense energy bank' that you get when you send a ship into be reverse engineered, (scrap at a yard)?

You claimed an advanced ship and sent it to your spaceport to be analysed. It gave you a science boost in the "Dense energy bank" technology.
It's a shield improvement technology (Deucalios Shield, aka "Intensified Shield Strength").



elanaagain -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 12:47:45 PM)

Thanks OzoneGrif for dark energy help - I was confused. Thank you :) ... about the '100% tax" item: I don't think of it as 100% of all the money in that colony - but rather as 100% (the max) of tax settings allowable / permitted by species + government type.



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 2:20:49 PM)

I think there is some confusion on the Taxes.

The highest possible Tax rate is 50%, and is most easily seen in the Colonies Screen.

The 100% figure you're seeing in regards to Taxes is the compliance rate (% that are actually paying and not protesting).

The Music Note is the Culture/Development level of the Colony, which impacts the Sphere of Influence size (Colored Territory on Galaxy Map).



Osito -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 2:53:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

I think there is some confusion on the Taxes.

The highest possible Tax rate is 50%, and is most easily seen in the Colonies Screen.

The 100% figure you're seeing in regards to Taxes is the compliance rate (% that are actually paying and not protesting).

The Music Note is the Culture/Development level of the Colony, which impacts the Sphere of Influence size (Colored Territory on Galaxy Map).



I'm clearly missing something here. As far as I can tell, I can set taxes at 100% and they show up as 100% in the colony screen and in the selection box in the bottom left. Compliance is shown separately.



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 2:57:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spacecadet

I think there is some confusion on the Taxes.

The highest possible Tax rate is 50%, and is most easily seen in the Colonies Screen.

The 100% figure you're seeing in regards to Taxes is the compliance rate (% that are actually paying and not protesting).

The Music Note is the Culture/Development level of the Colony, which impacts the Sphere of Influence size (Colored Territory on Galaxy Map).



I'm clearly missing something here. As far as I can tell, I can set taxes at 100% and they show up as 100% in the colony screen and in the selection box in the bottom left. Compliance is shown separately.


Let's take a quick look :

[image]local://upfiles/34818/612AD529244B44EA988B73A7F0BA5C7A.jpg[/image]


Can you increase Taxes beyond this in this Screen?
You shouldn't be able too.

Are we looking at something different, maybe that's the confusion?



Raap -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 2:59:48 PM)

I can set taxes to 100% too.

Maybe the max is decided by government type?



Osito -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:00:56 PM)

Yeah but:



[image]local://upfiles/44634/9BC1957A2FE843B698D9B0DA4078BA90.jpg[/image]



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

I can set taxes to 100% too.

Maybe the max is decided by government type?


What type Government are you using, I'll jump in game an check it real quick?



Osito -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:02:11 PM)

It's democracy.



Raap -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:03:56 PM)

It works for democracy and pirate empire(no government) for me at least. I checked the government file, but can't find anything that specifically mentions max tax rate. Works for technocracy too.



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:05:50 PM)

Wow, good find.

I can do that in Way of Ancients too - pretty sure it's a bug, should be capped at 50%.




Raap -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:07:57 PM)

Which Empire/Government type could you not increase it above 50% with?



Osito -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:09:15 PM)

It was certainly possible to set it at 100% in democracy's in Shadows, as I did that in a game just before Universe came out. I was thinking at the time that it was a bit silly, because I had 100% taxes and 40% approval. I'm wondering now whether it is a bug that crept in at some time, because I'm not certain that I always used to be able to set it at 100% (but I can't remember for sure).



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:09:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raap

Which Empire/Government type could you not increase it above 50% with?


I believe 50% is the max for all, but there might be an exception.

I've alerted Elliot and I'll look through the Galactopedia to see if there's anything on it.




Raap -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:13:59 PM)

Hmm, think I've discovered the 'problem'. If you use the Colony Screen tax adjuster, then you can get it up to 100%. If you just right-click the planet and 'increase by +5%' over and over, it'll stop at 50%. Government type and race appears to be completely unrelated.



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 3:18:02 PM)

Yeah, it's a bug, 50% is the max it should be, otherwise your Private Sector would have zero income at 100% :

[image]local://upfiles/34818/105D6E1F047542B6848F6E9364547270.jpg[/image]



FingNewGuy -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 4:43:47 PM)

Hmmm... I have ALWAYS just used the Colony Screen tax adjustment and have not experienced adverse economic effects. Game is approaching Y140 and Colony income and happiness modifiers from Wonders, Leader and Planetary Governors get quite substantial.



[image]local://upfiles/48279/E3C00C47C49D470B86852387524B2672.jpg[/image]



FingNewGuy -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 4:44:53 PM)

And this:



[image]local://upfiles/48279/256062F3A19C4675B70C67AC2281B868.jpg[/image]



Osito -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 4:52:51 PM)

Prepare to lose those outrageous tax rates :-)



Spacecadet -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 4:56:33 PM)

Your overall Empire Tax is only 38% looking at your Summary screen, so I don't know the balance of your other Colonies.

Your Happiness is +15 from all the bonuses, so that's why you have 98% compliance on that one planet.

What does your Population Tab show as far as Bonuses/Detractors ?



OzoneGrif_slith -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 5:08:20 PM)

Spacecadet... I remembered why Happiness helps the growth. It's not a direct calculation, but your colony does indeed grow bigger because of immigration.

If you are very happy, people want to migrate, thus helping the growth rate indirectly.



Razbun -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 5:13:18 PM)

Now that we have modding tools, is it possible to check the actual values and logic in some of these systems?

The trading background calculations and the cargo space allocation is something that should be explainable to the players as they are intrinsic of how you plan your empire.... : (



FingNewGuy -> RE: Advanced questions and answers (5/26/2014 5:18:03 PM)

Out of 106 colonies, only 17 currently have tax rates above 50%. I always assumed that we deliberately had the option to raise rates above 50% per colony if desired, knowing that that would lessen Private Economy income per colony but that that was up to our discretion on a case-by-case basis (really embarrassed face for being wrong on that one). Here is the Population Screen:
Edit: In addition, Kzin has the Trade Guild, Trader's Bazaar and Universal Hive built on it.




[image]local://upfiles/48279/BF38DE946D084C4D91F0233C1BA13128.jpg[/image]



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