RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (Full Version)

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ny59giants -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 1:29:25 PM)

Australia - The line to trigger "Emergency Reinforcements" is the hex just south of Brisbane. So he can take Brisbane in the east and Port Augusta in the west WITHOUT triggering them. What happened to me was my industry was hit hard from Brisbane and lots of strategic points were gained by Olorin. I would hit the Stockpile for supply at Melbourne to "Yes" as Sydney tends to hoard them all just ion case he goes for the whole continent.

What non-Australian troops do you have there??




Lokasenna -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 2:38:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Invasion materializes!
______________________________________________________________________________

So this is it. A Japanese landing at Maryborough! Is it a full scale on or just a spoiling attack...I guess we will know if he crosses the LOD or not. If I remember correctly is just south of Brisbane?

Any estimates on how much he would need to fully conquer Western OZ? I will move the 350 AV from Brisbane to Melbourne boosting both UH hexes to 1000 AV with level 3 forts. Can he realistically do it?


[image]local://upfiles/32406/26B379347212431EB664B42E6CE240DC.jpg[/image]


You mean Eastern? He could run roughshod over the entire NE coastline with just a division and some tanks, as the troops you have are poor quality and you have no armour or many guns to speak of at the start of the war.

The Line of Death is the hex south of Brisbane - he can capture Brisbane, but if he crosses even a fragment of a unit south of Brisbane, he triggers the reinforcements.

Judging by his choice of invasion spot, he's looking to cut your lines in half and kill whatever you have north of Brisbane, while holding you back from the south. Look for him to cut the rail line out of Toowcomba ASAP, which will prevent any strat moves out of the Townsville area.




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 3:15:20 PM)

Yes, Eastern. My bad. [:)]

I got the turn back just a few minutes ago. Havnīt had time to run the turn yet but this is from the CR.

quote:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 03, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Maryborough (96,157)

TF 16 troops unloading over beach at Maryborough, 96,157

Japanese ground losses:
391 casualties reported
Squads: 23 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

12 troops of a IJA HMG Section lost overboard during unload of 38th Div /1
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad accidentally lost during unload of 38th Div /4
17 troops of a IJN Const Eng Sq accidentally lost during unload of 22nd Special Base Force
17 troops of a SNLF Inf Squad 41 lost overboard during unload of 24th Special Base Force
15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 24th Special Base Force /2
15 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 22nd Special Base Force /3
15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 24th Special Base Force /4
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad accidentally lost during unload of 21st Div /1
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost overboard during unload of 21st Div /1
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad accidentally lost during unload of 21st Div /1
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost overboard during unload of 21st Div /1
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad accidentally lost during unload of 21st Div
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost overboard during unload of 21st Div
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost in surf during unload of 21st Div /3
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost in surf during unload of 21st Div /3
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost overboard during unload of 21st Div /3
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost overboard during unload of 21st Div /4
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost overboard during unload of 21st Div /4
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost in surf during unload of 21st Div /4
15 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 21st Div /4
15 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 21st Div /4
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 21st Div /5
15 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 21st Div /5
15 Support troops lost from landing craft during unload of 21st Div /5
15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 21st Div /5
15 Support troops accidentally lost during unload of 21st Div /5
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost in surf during unload of 38th Div /5
17 troops of a IJA Inf Squad lost from landing craft during unload of 38th Div /5
15 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 38th Div /5
15 Support troops lost overboard during unload of 38th Div /5


So it looks like a 2 ID landing. Both IDs were prior to this found by SIGINT moving to Truk. A 3rd one was used to capture Noumea (33rd ID). So no danger of an all out attack yet. I think this might be an attempt to secure VPs by using LBA to bomb the OZ industry as happened to Michael. As Loka says he is also likely hoping to capture a lot of troops in the North. Luckily Iīm prepared and all that is guarding the North are fast tank units and the necessary BFs. If the rail is cut I hope I can escape but driving on the roads towards the SW.




Lokasenna -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 3:58:28 PM)

Interesting that he didn't land any armor in the first wave. He'll have 75ish (?) engineers on the ground on Day 1 to begin working on that airfield level, and ~72-120 Av Supp (I forget if the special base forces have 24 or 48 in them).

Can you get some DL on the base to get an early read on where he's heading?




BBfanboy -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 4:23:12 PM)

High casualties on landing = low prep. He is willing to take losses like this to achieve surprise, at least while
he has the amphib bonus.




Lokasenna -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 4:50:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

High casualties on landing = low prep. He is willing to take losses like this to achieve surprise, at least while
he has the amphib bonus.


Not terribly high. Also probably another factor in why he picked this spot - no organic CD guns, and I think it might even start with no Australian units defending it. He was banking on you not having anything there (which he may have confirmed with aerial recon).

~400 casualties in the landing is not that bad, though, spread among 4 units. Maybe two cycles of replacements to recover them all if he also lands plenty of supply and splits into thirds.




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 4:51:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Interesting that he didn't land any armor in the first wave. He'll have 75ish (?) engineers on the ground on Day 1 to begin working on that airfield level, and ~72-120 Av Supp (I forget if the special base forces have 24 or 48 in them).

Can you get some DL on the base to get an early read on where he's heading?


He has all armor except two Tank RGTs in China. Most if not all heavy Arty too. Speculation on my part but I think he do that because it will limit losses in China. Chinese canīt hurt tankettes after all and that will mean less VPs lost to army losses.

I have some Bolos training recon in OZ but they are very low skilled and I have nothing with a camera. Will give it a try though! [:)]




Lokasenna -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 5:11:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Interesting that he didn't land any armor in the first wave. He'll have 75ish (?) engineers on the ground on Day 1 to begin working on that airfield level, and ~72-120 Av Supp (I forget if the special base forces have 24 or 48 in them).

Can you get some DL on the base to get an early read on where he's heading?


He has all armor except two Tank RGTs in China. Most if not all heavy Arty too. Speculation on my part but I think he do that because it will limit losses in China. Chinese canīt hurt tankettes after all and that will mean less VPs lost to army losses.

I have some Bolos training recon in OZ but they are very low skilled and I have nothing with a camera. Will give it a try though! [:)]


Right, but he should have several unrestricted regiments that are pre-set to be used in Malaya/Luzon, I think. 8th Tank for sure, plus some he could buy out from Japan. Plenty of armor and armor-lite (tankettes) starts in China and is restricted or in Manchuria, no need to send more.

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of early war Allied recon. Even just LBs with a camera would work in a pinch, or even PA/FP types.




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 5:57:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Right, but he should have several unrestricted regiments that are pre-set to be used in Malaya/Luzon, I think. 8th Tank for sure, plus some he could buy out from Japan. Plenty of armor and armor-lite (tankettes) starts in China and is restricted or in Manchuria, no need to send more.

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of early war Allied recon. Even just LBs with a camera would work in a pinch, or even PA/FP types.


Only seen two outside China. One in Malaya and one on Luzon. Thats a bit...troubling. How many more should there be that I havnīt seen?




rook749 -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 6:22:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of early war Allied recon. Even just LBs with a camera would work in a pinch, or even PA/FP types.


I re-sized a Fulmar II ACU on the Hermes and left it in Oz for some recon, any chance you can get one there?




JocMeister -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 6:26:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rook749
I re-sized a Fulmar II ACU on the Hermes and left it in Oz for some recon, any chance you can get one there?


Thats a great idea! Will look into it. Thanks! [&o]




Lokasenna -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 6:33:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Right, but he should have several unrestricted regiments that are pre-set to be used in Malaya/Luzon, I think. 8th Tank for sure, plus some he could buy out from Japan. Plenty of armor and armor-lite (tankettes) starts in China and is restricted or in Manchuria, no need to send more.

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of early war Allied recon. Even just LBs with a camera would work in a pinch, or even PA/FP types.


Only seen two outside China. One in Malaya and one on Luzon. Thats a bit...troubling. How many more should there be that I havnīt seen?


I will need to look, but I can't remember what scenario you are playing.




Lowpe -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 7:52:21 PM)

This is exciting.




offenseman -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 8:00:51 PM)

It is exciting. Maybe exciting in a different way for the Allied player than for us followers...




ny59giants -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 9:25:26 PM)

Lord Howe Island - Get some Aviation Support and a group of PBYs and/or 2 groups of Catalina over to provide Naval Search. You may see raiding TFs with or without CV as you try to get ships into Melbourne. When I was under siege, I had to come in from the deep south to southern Australia from NZ. I used my CVs to escort things in for a while.




Lokasenna -> RE: Invasion fleet about to land in OZ! (7/28/2014 10:03:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Right, but he should have several unrestricted regiments that are pre-set to be used in Malaya/Luzon, I think. 8th Tank for sure, plus some he could buy out from Japan. Plenty of armor and armor-lite (tankettes) starts in China and is restricted or in Manchuria, no need to send more.

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of early war Allied recon. Even just LBs with a camera would work in a pinch, or even PA/FP types.


Only seen two outside China. One in Malaya and one on Luzon. Thats a bit...troubling. How many more should there be that I havnīt seen?


I will need to look, but I can't remember what scenario you are playing.


Unless there are large changes between stock Scen 1/Scen 2 and what you are playing, here's what starts unrestricted:

1st Tank Rgt (Part of 1st Tank Division, Malaya-bound)
5th Recon Rgt (Part of 5th ID, Malaya-bound)
2nd Recon Rgt (Part of 2nd ID, Malaya-bound)
56th Recon Rgt (Part of 56th ID, Malaya-bound)
16th Recon Rgt (Part of 16th ID, I think Luzon-bound)
2nd Tank Rgt (unrestricted at Takao), part of 2nd Ind Tank Brigade
22nd Recon Rgt (Part of 18th ID, starts at Samah)
7th Tank Rgt (Part of 2nd Tank Division, starts at Pescadores)
4th Tank Rgt (Pescadores) - independent unit
48th Tank Rgt (part of 48th ID, Pescadores)
6th Tank Rgt (Part of 2nd Tank Division, starts at CRB)
14th Tank Rgt (Battambang in Thailand) - independent unit
8th Tank Rgt (Babeldaob) - independent unit

The Tank Divisions all have pieces that arrive in Mukden later in the war, and they are restricted to a Chinese HQ, so PPs have to be spent to combine them no matter what.

I believe the following are Scen 2 reinforcements (all unrestricted):
5th Guards Cav Rgt (CRB), 1 March 1942
7th Ind Tank Brigade (CRB), 1 April 1942
Guards Tank Division (CRB - definitely Scen 2 only), 1 May 1942

More comes later on in summer/fall 1942 - mostly the pieces to the Tank Divisions, and a couple of smaller tank regiments on Honshu in July. All are yellow-restricted.

I've bolded the units that he should have by now.




JocMeister -> Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 7:06:37 AM)

Thanks Loka. [&o]

We are playing some version of DBB! Have to check up through Intel and Combat reports and find all the "missing" Tank RGT. Starting to get a bit worried Iīm missing something big.

Heading out for a wedding today and will be back tomorrow. Really looking forward to suiting up in 32 degrees Celsius.. [:(]

Wonīt have time to update until Iīm back tomorrow. We had some small successes in China that will buy a couple of days. Now lost 380 VPs to strat bombing. This will get worse as he can get LBA to bear. 825 AV ashore in OZ. So not a threat. Yet....

See you guys tomorrow! [:)]




JeffroK -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 8:55:11 AM)

Hate say "I told you so"

But only 2 Divisions, have a good look around, get as many aircraft on Nav Search as possible and look for another Amphib TF heading somewhere else.

I would also not rely on the Brisbane Line, most reinforcements arrive in Aden and have to get past the IJN to get to Perth and then catch the train to the East Coast, at least a month before they arrive.




offenseman -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 1:13:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Hate say "I told you so"

But only 2 Divisions, have a good look around, get as many aircraft on Nav Search as possible and look for another Amphib TF heading somewhere else.

I would also not rely on the Brisbane Line, most reinforcements arrive in Aden and have to get past the IJN to get to Perth and then catch the train to the East Coast, at least a month before they arrive.


I agree, there are some unaccounted for troops and ships. He would know that he only needs 2 divisions to work you over in NE Oz, so where are the rest? hmmmm Could be nearby to simplify his naval deployments. Could be the other coast of Oz as well. While unlikely it would not surprise me right now.




Lokasenna -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 1:31:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: offenseman


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Hate say "I told you so"

But only 2 Divisions, have a good look around, get as many aircraft on Nav Search as possible and look for another Amphib TF heading somewhere else.

I would also not rely on the Brisbane Line, most reinforcements arrive in Aden and have to get past the IJN to get to Perth and then catch the train to the East Coast, at least a month before they arrive.


I agree, there are some unaccounted for troops and ships. He would know that he only needs 2 divisions to work you over in NE Oz, so where are the rest? hmmmm Could be nearby to simplify his naval deployments. Could be the other coast of Oz as well. While unlikely it would not surprise me right now.



While this is true, there are immediate boosts to the pools, particularly for aircraft and tanks. Or at least a boost after the emergency convoy disbands, which might be 3 days later.


As for where are the other 2 divisions...it's entirely possible that he just doesn't have the shipping to bring more than that right now, if he's conducting any sort of ops or redeployment elsewhere.




offenseman -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 1:50:36 PM)

He might not have the shipping but since he appears to be going for AV and knowing that he had a plan before the start of the game to do so, I suspect he is not wasting time moving resources and has converted a lot of xAK-T. I think it is not a lack of shipping. I've never been at a loss for shipping as Japan in 2/42 and I am playing DBB-C which requires more shipping for not only supply and resources but non-troop cargoes like tanks, trucks and guns.

But TBH, my sole reason for thinking another hammer is going to drop is the game MrKane has played so far. It is a work of art and I suspect that his excellence will continue.




Lowpe -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 2:03:05 PM)

He is going to go for all of Australia.

Mr. Kane has broken up the carriers, an excellent opportunity for you to concentrate your carriers and hit him hard. You have the naval search available to really create a very favorable CV engagement.

Or for you to hit the Home Islands while he is busy elsewhere.


















SqzMyLemon -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 3:01:30 PM)

I thought I'd throw this in.

If Mr. Kane is going for AV, what would a raid on the Home Islands do to deter him from still following his game plan? While the Allied CV's are conducting a pinprick raid against some factories, Mr. Kane might be gutting Austalia with no threat from Allied forces interdicting his LOC.

Nemo always pointed out that he'd welcome an opponent's attempt to divert his attention while he simply stuck to the plan and eviscerated his opponent. I think that is sound advice.

I fail to see how a raid against the Home Islands would suddenly cause Mr. Kane to do anything differently. A landing is another story, but I doubt any Allied attempt to gain a foothold at this early stage of the game would be successful. Mr. Kane obviously has a plan and he well may have accounted for a knee jerk strike at the Home Islands. What does hitting the Home Islands do for you IF Mr. Kane does not react and sticks to his plan?




Lokasenna -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 3:39:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I thought I'd throw this in.

If Mr. Kane is going for AV, what would a raid on the Home Islands do to deter him from still following his game plan? While the Allied CV's are conducting a pinprick raid against some factories, Mr. Kane might be gutting Austalia with no threat from Allied forces interdicting his LOC.

Nemo always pointed out that he'd welcome an opponent's attempt to divert his attention while he simply stuck to the plan and eviscerated his opponent. I think that is sound advice.

I fail to see how a raid against the Home Islands would suddenly cause Mr. Kane to do anything differently. A landing is another story, but I doubt any Allied attempt to gain a foothold at this early stage of the game would be successful. Mr. Kane obviously has a plan and he well may have accounted for a knee jerk strike at the Home Islands. What does hitting the Home Islands do for you IF Mr. Kane does not react and sticks to his plan?


VPs.

I got 304 Strategic VPs on my raid, and the KB was much closer to the Home Islands. In terms of a 1943 Japanese autovictory, that makes up for 1212 Japanese VPs. Brisbane, fully built out at Port 7/AF 9, is worth 1250 VPs for Japan and 25 for the Allies. So my raid was worth .95 Fully Built Brisbanes, or 2 February 1942 Brisbanes.

And there's more to gain off the coast of Japan than just strat VPs. If he's silly enough to send trainees against the CVs, you'll get free A2A kills with your CAP and VPs that way. If he sends out what should be, with the forces now revealed, meager SAGs, you could bag some of those, too. Not to mention any shipping he may have in the area...

Sydney, on the other hand...that could be troublesome. Don't lose that one. That poses a potential problem with the HI raid, as you MAY need CVs to bring in reinforcements to Australia...




SqzMyLemon -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 4:09:09 PM)

I'm thinking Mr. Kane has read your AAR and knows the threat. A player of his caliber will have something in place for such a reaction, but if he doesn't well...

Something tells me he's not concerned with what Jocke does, but has a game plan he's going to follow to net him AV. I think that is what people are missing here. Just thought I'd offer a counterpoint to those clamouring for a raid on the Home Islands. You pulled it off against an unprepared opponent. That may not be the case here.




GreyJoy -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 4:32:35 PM)

I can tell you one thing: Even when Tom is caught by surprise, he never panics.
I have caught him a couple of times off guard, hoping that he could overreact and make a serious mistake. He never did. Not even when I landed in the middle of the day as a bolt in a blue sky. He simply, methodically, countered me and slowed me down until he was able to form a new line and stall me.

Don't play on his mistakes. Play on your own strategy




Lokasenna -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 4:42:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I'm thinking Mr. Kane has read your AAR and knows the threat. A player of his caliber will have something in place for such a reaction, but if he doesn't well...

Something tells me he's not concerned with what Jocke does, but has a game plan he's going to follow to net him AV. I think that is what people are missing here. Just thought I'd offer a counterpoint to those clamouring for a raid on the Home Islands. You pulled it off against an unprepared opponent. That may not be the case here.


The possible return is high enough that I think it should at least be scouted out. I don't know how familiar Jocke is with the aerial OOB, but I'd start counting Nell/Betty and LBA IJNAF fighter units out in the field... compare that to the available OOB and you'll have a pretty good idea of what could be awaiting in Japanese waters.

My hunch, however, is that in pushing so hard for AV, MrKane will have almost everything deployed forward. With a perimeter of search, but at this point he's going to have massive gaping holes in his naval search. There just aren't enough units or enough airframes to fill out resized units to get enough search in the air to cover everything. So he's forced to choose either being blind in his AOO and the surrounding areas, or blind in spots around his perimeter or at home.

The Kuriles are a particularly large blind spot this early, with no airfields to speak of, meaning he'll need to send an AV or CS with PA or FP unit(s).


There's no reason Jocke can't both meet/mitigate the threat of losing Australia (though I think that at this point in the war anything from Brisbane north is toast, even if temporarily) and strike at MrKane's guts. MrKane has a plan for AV, sure, and Jocke should have a plan for avoiding it - in terms of what bases he needs to hold or take back before MrKane hits 4:1. There's no reason battles of attrition where even a 2:1 trade in MrKane's favor in a large enough quantity works in Jocke's favor in terms of avoiding AV. Building up Noumea, Tahiti, Auckland, Anchorage, etc., gets you only so many VPs, and honestly they can be taken away for a time (particularly Noumea). VPs for destroying units and industry can't be taken away, which I imagine is why MrKane bombed Sydney.

The Heavy Industry and Fires hits at Sydney actually lead me to think that he's not planning to cross the counterinvasion line. If I were in Jocke's position I'd still concentrate on defending Sydney/Melbourne, but I'd think the odds of MrKane marching that far south to be less than 50%. If he were going to go for Sydney, he'd be smarter to do it right away before forts can be built and before Jocke can react to a landing on the eastern coast. So rather than landing at undefended Maryborough, which is many days of marching from Sydney plus the possibility of major engagements in the Brisbane area, a thrust on Sydney would have been better served by a landing at Newcastle - despite its 6 coastal guns at start. It's entirely possible that he tries to take Sydney, but the actions as laid out so far hint towards a greater likelihood of a play for Australian LCU VPs and denial of the east coast of Australia as a VP bank for Jocke while serving as a large VP bank for MrKane, even in its present unfortified state.




Lowpe -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 5:41:26 PM)

I agree with Lokasenna on being able to start setting up a victory point grab and contesting Mr. Kanes advances in the Pacific. I think southern Oz might be attacked in late 42 or used as a trap to try and catch convoys headed there. I would work really hard on my naval search in the Pacific...to avoid future turkey shoots like what happened to those tankers a while back.

As the Allies, I would be searching for victory points and taking them anyway I can get them.






JeffroK -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 8:31:04 PM)

Sadly, most of these comments support why I think playing for points is stupid.

Whatif, you survive 1942 by 1 point only to find yourself poorly set up for 1943.

Maryborough is an interesting target, cuts the rail and main rod links north, has Fraser island offshore which can be built up to a large airbase (though a low port number), close enough to threaten Brisbane.

AFB have to learn to cover these ports or find JFB starting to target them. It probably means that 6th & 7th Aussie Divs have to head home ASAP and some investment of US Army units, just like IRL.




offenseman -> RE: Japanese land in OZ!! (7/29/2014 8:40:52 PM)

+1 on points. If I played Allied there is no way I would want to invest heavily into a 1942 slaughter only to quit on 1/1/43 and never getting a chance to give some back. But opinions vary. [:)]




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