Underdogs gets new facelift (Full Version)

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Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> Underdogs gets new facelift (2/12/2003 11:14:57 AM)

Just being nice to a nice service by mentioning that any that have not been there in recent days, they took site and gave it a good face lift (but it has been quite slow due to recent interest in them).

Alas I tried to get the Third Reich download, and while the file downloads fine, it is the same ole massively crunched file as usual....groan.

They reeeeeeeeally need to get someone to show them how to take files and give them decent extractors or whatever.

I am still trying to figure out how to correctly expand and employ that file. It is not fairly obvious at all. I sure hope my buddy locates his actual copy of his game soon. This download is not exactly a good option.

I would rather I just needed to employ the patch to a commercial copy instead.
Alas the game is not yet on my buy list (assuming I can locate it in retail form in the first place).

For those interested in A3R in general located this link while looking for obscure copies of the PC game.

http://www.secondchancegames.com/gamedetail.asp?GameId=1460



pasternakski -> (2/12/2003 12:01:47 PM)

I know what you mean, Les. You need to apply the arj compressor/extractor program, and it is far from clear from the instructions how it is supposed to work. I vaguely remember fiddling around on the Net and finding it, but I don't have the url anymore. arj as a search term ought to work.

I'm one of the "lucky" people who paid through the nose to buy this on CD when it first came out (yes, I didn't rip anybody off, for the benefit of all you imitation lawyers out there) and had the perseverance to hang around for the v. 1.38 patch. It really is a good game, although, as you have pointed out, dated by comparison to A3R (all the more reason for an update, my friend).



Ardle -> Re: Underdogs gets new facelift (2/12/2003 12:13:40 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]
They reeeeeeeeally need to get someone to show them how to take files and give them decent extractors or whatever.

I am still trying to figure out how to correctly expand and employ that file. It is not fairly obvious at all. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I've just started playing the board version of Third Reich, so I was curious to check out the computer one, just so as I could try out a few moves. But as is usual for The Underdogs stuff, there is no explanation as to how to piece together all those disparate files. I think the problem is that these things are prepared by tech-heads who assume that everyone else is a tech-head and will know how to set it up. Wrong! I could extract all the files OK, even the arj one, and got as far as configuring the sound, but then couldn't find anything that would actually start the game....what a waste of time!

Underdogs - a great idea, but rarely of any use. :(



Von Rom -> (2/12/2003 2:40:51 PM)

Here is the download site for WinRAR v3.11. Download the version located at the top of the page. This utility will open almost every file, especially those on the underdogs site.

It works just like WinZip. After you install the program, select the options tab and make sure all the file extensions have been selected (these file extensions are for all the different file types you may encounter when downloading stuff).

It's very easy to use, and I actually like it better than winzip:


http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm



Von Rom -> (2/12/2003 2:46:01 PM)

Les and anyone else: If you still have the download of Third Reich. Hang on to it.

Download WinRAR, and open Third Reich with this utility.

If you want, I'll give you step-by-step instructions on how to setup the game. It's very easy to do.

:)



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/12/2003 8:22:56 PM)

Step by Step instructions PLEEEEEASE von Rom:)

As for Utility fans out there, this is also worthy of mention.

http://download.com.com/3000-2250-10030793.html

It's for WinAce a utility that can unzip anything apparently (rar and arj files etc).

But trouble is, it's just a program :( it won't tell you how to decipher a convoluted multiple zipped Underdogs file:(



Ardle -> (2/12/2003 9:52:37 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Von Rom
[B]Les and anyone else: If you still have the download of Third Reich. Hang on to it.

Download WinRAR, and open Third Reich with this utility.

If you want, I'll give you step-by-step instructions on how to setup the game. It's very easy to do.

:) [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes! Post step-by-step instructions please!

Already used WinRAR to unpack everything - now what? And will it work with XP?



Von Rom -> (2/13/2003 12:53:51 AM)

OK, here it is :):

NOTE TO XP USERS: I use Win'98 and have been able to get Third Reich to run on my computer. I don't know about XP, so some extra adjustment may need to be done. I will show you how to setup the game. Those with more knowledge about getting DOS games to run on XP may be able to help should the game not work for you.

I don't know where you have downloaded the game, so I'll start from the beginning on how I have setup the game.

1) Create a folder called "Downloads" and place it here: "C:\Downloads".

2) In the "Downloads" folder create a NEW folder called "Reich". Place the game you just downloaded into the "Reich" folder.

3) Now go to your "C:\" drive and create ANOTHER folder called "3rdReich". It should have a pathway like this: "C:\3rdReich".

4) Now we are set to open the game. Go back to the folder called "Reich" where the game is located.

5) Double click on the "treich.zip" game file. Extract the 7 files directly into the same folder you are now in.

6) You now see 8 zip files. We are only interested in 7 of them named "psg3rd01.zip" through to "psg3rd07.zip".

7) Create another NEW folder called "Game Files" where you are right now (where the newly opened 7 zip files are located). The pathway should look like this: "C:\Downloads\Reich\Game Files".

8) Now double click on the file labeled "psg3rd01.zip". Extract the files into the "Game Files" folder. Now delete "psg3rd01.zip". Next double click on the file labeled "psg3rd02.zip". Extract the files into the "Game Files" folder. You may see a small panel appear that will ask you to over-write any duplicate files. Click "yes" to over-write all files. Now delete the "psg3rd02.zip". Do the same proceedure for all 7 zip files. Extract all 7 files into the "Game Files" folder, over-writing any files when prompted to do so. Then delete all 7 files when you are done.

9) Whew! That wasn't too bad :)

10) Now go into the "Game Files" folder. We will now open up the game files themselves. Inside this folder you will see 6 files labeled: "3rdreich.a01" to "3rdreich.a06", plus a 7th file labeled "3rdreich.arj".

11) Double click on the file "3rdreich.arj". Extract the files into the file called "3rdReich" (located at "C:\3rdReich"). Next extract the 6 files from "3rdreich.a01" through to "3rdreich.a06" and place them inside the same "3rdReich" folder. Click "yes" when the panel appears asking you to over-write any files.

12) Finally, go to where you downloaded the patch. Double click on the file "treich-fix.zip". Extract ALL of the files into the game directory called "C:\3rdReich\REICH". Click "yes" to over-write the files.

13) Now go to the folder where you just extracted the game files: "C:\3rdReich\REICH".

14) Locate the file called "setup.exe". Double click on it and select auto detect for your sound. You will need to use the arrow keys on your keyboard to navigate this screen. It will prompt you, so just go ahead with the auto detect. Once done, click on the test panel, and if you hear sounds, you are done. Click any key, and on the next panel, select "OK". It will prompt you to save the configuration. Click "OK" and exit.

15) Finally, right-click on "3r2.exe". Select "properties". Select "program", and at the bottom of this panel, you'll see a pull-down menu called "Run: Normal window". Select "Maximized" instead. Click "apply". Now at the top of the panel select the "screen" tab. At the top, under "Usage" click on the "Full-screen" button. Click on "apply", then exit by clicking on "OK".

16) To start the game, click on the "MSDOS3r2" file. This was created after we did step number 15. DO NOT MAKE A SHORT-CUT TO YOUR DESKTOP. YOU MUST START THE GAME FROM WITHIN THE GAME DIRECTORY ITSELF.

That should be it.

Have fun! :)



Ardle -> (2/13/2003 10:16:13 AM)

Von Rom - thanks very much for your excellent instructions! Third Reich is now up and running just fine under Win XP. Good job, sir!



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/13/2003 10:45:51 AM)

Hmmm lets see, master Von Rom's instructions, or wait for buddy to bring his copy by tomorrow (he finally found it!).

I think I will wait till tomorrow heheh.

But thanks for the help, looks like it is well thought out.

Hmm second thought. if the game is available free online, then it is available free online.

Sort of suspends my obsession with obsession with not offering something to others.



Von Rom -> (2/13/2003 12:38:39 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ardle
[B]Von Rom - thanks very much for your excellent instructions! Third Reich is now up and running just fine under Win XP. Good job, sir! [/B][/QUOTE]

Ardle: glad to see it works fine under XP.

I think you will find Third Reich will give you quite a challenge. Be sure to carefully read the manuals, as some of the more subtle play features may be crucial to winning some of the scenarios.

Have fun!



Von Rom -> (2/13/2003 12:42:45 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Hmmm lets see, master Von Rom's instructions, or wait for buddy to bring his copy by tomorrow (he finally found it!).

I think I will wait till tomorrow heheh.

But thanks for the help, looks like it is well thought out.

Hmm second thought. if the game is available free online, then it is available free online.

Sort of suspends my obsession with obsession with not offering something to others. [/B][/QUOTE]

Les: well either way, by tomorrow, you should be enjoying the game :)

The playing map is huge. It sure reminds me of my board wargame days. And the manuals are enjoyable to read - they include well-thought instructions and strategies.

The game should give you a run for your "money" heh ;)

No real time clickfests here - just thoughtful turn-based action that should keep you busy for a while. . .



Fred98 -> (2/13/2003 1:53:27 PM)

What are the instructions for reaching the DOS prompt from WIN XP.

My brother is a MAC fanatic but used WIN XP professional for business on a lap top. And he takes home the lap top so he can play Third Reich.

If somthing can go wrong it will.

I need to forward him the instructions.



Von Rom -> (2/13/2003 10:49:19 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe 98
[B]What are the instructions for reaching the DOS prompt from WIN XP.

My brother is a MAC fanatic but used WIN XP professional for business on a lap top. And he takes home the lap top so he can play Third Reich.

If somthing can go wrong it will.

I need to forward him the instructions. [/B][/QUOTE]

Joe 98: There is no need to use the DOS prompt at all. If the game was installed as per my instructions above, then simply go inside the game directory in this pathway:

"C:\3rdReich\REICH".

Then double-click on the game "3r2.exe". It should run just fine.



Paul Wykes -> Peoples general (2/14/2003 4:10:19 AM)

Hello,

Whilst on the subject of the underdogs. I thought people might like to know (for those hungry for a modern battlefield) that the Peoples General is also there for download.

Oh, and no DOS. Its a full windows game:)

Paul



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/14/2003 4:38:49 AM)

The Underdogs is indeed a good site.

But for any extrapolation of the Panzer General game including People's General, you can find more reliable files that are less crunched into convoluted multiples zips here

http://pub131.ezboard.com/bjpspanzers



Fred98 -> (2/14/2003 4:40:04 AM)

The game will be installed by CD. He has the game on CD.

I suspect he, as a MAC user, will have trouble locating the C prompt in WIN XP.



Von Rom -> (2/14/2003 4:50:53 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe 98
[B]The game will be installed by CD. He has the game on CD.

I suspect he, as a MAC user, will have trouble locating the C prompt in WIN XP. [/B][/QUOTE]

Just have him go into the game directory where he has it installed, and have him double the .exe file to run the game.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/14/2003 8:55:22 PM)

Well ain't this just a kick in the head.

Now on the one hand we have the people screaming that places like Underdogs are offending copywrite.

Then we have me frustrated because here I sit, with the genuine article (dang it's so mint it still has all the mailing junk in the box too), and the original cd which is in perfect shape, won't install the blessed friggin game to save my soul.

Tried Win XP with and without compatibility on the set up files etc (yes I know all the variables).
Tried same inside of 98 SE as well (can't blame XP there).
No luck.

After caaaaaaaaarefully reading Von Rom's instructions post for the Underdogs downloadable file, and sloooooowly doing everything exactly as mentioned, I have the game actually running fine inside XP (no further fussing was required). Well the sounds are slightly off, that might be me not the game (I plan on further tests there).

I will comment though, that while l was uncompressing files from step 11, I was getting intrusive requests to install the crack (which I declined).
There appears to have been no ill effect from doing so. Even still, the crack zip found its way into the folder so I deleted it.

I now need to do a decent "playing" of the game to be sure all is well.

But in the final analysis. Owning the game does not seem to have gotten me far. Maybe this copy here pre dates the version that appears at Underdogs?
I know the original release game has attracted scorn from the past.
Oh well all the game materials will work fine eh:) (literature might have been looked at once if that).

Stay tuned, next test is to see if the directory works if simply cut and pasted to new location.
Next, see if the folder can be safely burned to a cd exactly as is and then safely reloaded and run.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/14/2003 10:06:42 PM)

News flash!

This just in.

The files are portable and survive the move.

The files also required no adjustment post move.

Sadly to say for XP users, the sounds behaved better inside of 98 SE OS, with no adjustment inside of the 98 SE OS having been done.

Additionally, files performed correctly inside the 98 SE OS with no re install inside of 98 SE OS required. This includes the files in the moved test folder.

It has been determined that the 1.38 patch did not alter or aid the Original game install even after employing the Step 15 process.

The Original game cd based install refused to run correctly (or run at all for that matter) in both OS options.
Owners of the Original game might be better off seeking acquisition of the Underdogs file download, if they have not installed this game recently onto a new computer.

Next stage is the more time consuming walk through of actually playing the game. This is not expected to be accomplished immediately.



Charles2222 -> (2/15/2003 8:41:59 AM)

Some of you may recall that I took an anti-underdog stance before on the redo for 3R thread. On another site, one of those I mentioned that the moderators won't even let you mention the names of any abandonware sites, I picked up this particuler post that you might appreciate:

quote:

Theft is theft. Quite simple. Just because I dont or cant find hub caps for my 62 Renault doesnt mean I should steal them. Just cause I dont have an antique hard to find roll top desk doesnt mean its ok for me to steal it.

People dont think it hurts the industry, it does. For example, many Interactive Magic titles were still in production by the former IM President, they folded that due to Abandonware sites. One site alone had 13,000+ downloads of Capitalism Plus. Doesnt hurt them? You bet it does. We sent back over 500 copies we'd bought of that title alone telling them we couldnt give them away. They asked the site remove them and were told "shove off" (not mentioning site names as I'm not looking for fued).

One site we located some 13 eBay accounts where ordered things, paid, recieved, then disputed payment thus getting his abandonware free. In one incident, 4 titles at our expense + some $40 shipping. You the taxpayers got to pay for it as we wrote it off as a loss.

Now take my buddy Tony, Security Network Admin for Nortel Nets. He has all the security toys including software that cost nortel upwards of 12,000 a copy. He went to a popular abandon site and grabbed 4 files. Of the 4 files 3 of them had trojan horse spyware in them, Norton, McAfee etc. completely ignored them as if they were not even there. His $12K Network Associates Sniffer software started yelling and screaming.

People are such saps. ASK YOURSELF A QUESTION:

1. Why would some person someplace spend OODLES of money in bandwidth (downloads take lots of bandwidth) so they can give YOU free games? Would you spend lets say $1000 a month so everyone here could download old games?

Human nature is NOT always "Man, some guy in Malaysia, Taiwan, Hong Kong etc" must be really cool as he pays for me to get all these games!!!!

Call the US Dept Of Justice In DC and ask them what beyond "scams" are the #1 ways that credit cards, identity theft, stock theft, password theft etc. occur on the net?

Its why Tony's a Nortel Admin. #1 is the emails where someone tries implant crap on your PC. #2 download of uncertified files and installation there of on peoples PC's. Now ask yourself where most warez propagate from, then ask yourself what nations are the clearinghouses of stolen cards, stocks, passwords etc. You'll find its the same places where you get your warez/abandonwarez.

WHY do you think in the USA if an Abandonware site comes about its RAPIDLY put under. You think its cause EA, Sierra etc are yelling "PEOPLE ARE TAKING OUR OLD GAMES!!!!".

Nope, its because the impact on Visa, MC, Amex, Discover, eTrade and numerous others find some tracing BACK to US based site(s). Cant do nothing about these when they sit in taiwan or Malaysia or now the "up and comer" former soviet republics.

Again, its NOT some chap out there spending money on space and bandwidth cause' he wants to be your best buddy, jeez... 95% of the downloaders dont even know who runs the site(s). Its done because its a GREAT BAIT to implant crap on your PC and then attain information that DOES have value. Like I said, people are so gullable in the USA its just unreal.

I can go right now and download polymophic worms/trojan horse softwares, change them about it bit, recompile them, attach them to some game and say HERE ITS FREE!!!! Not a virus scanner, or software firewall will EVER have any clue its installed and running. Meanwhile some chap sits back watching everything you do. Spyware is VERY popular these days.

--------------------
Rick
President
The Software Society
http://www.rochnet.net



Charles2222 -> (2/15/2003 9:12:06 AM)

BTW guys, I looked over that guys website and he has LOTS of old games for sale, so apparently he knows what he's talking about, being in the business of selling things other people would tell you isn't available anymore. I saw all the X-Com titles, as well as all the CIV's and SP's. I quickly went through some of his stuff and didn't see 3R.



pasternakski -> (2/15/2003 10:28:11 AM)

Yeah, I knew this thread would spring this leak sooner or later. Post on AoW, Charles, and I'll tell you what I really think.



Von Rom -> (2/15/2003 11:50:14 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22
[B]BTW guys, I looked over that guys website and he has LOTS of old games for sale, so apparently he knows what he's talking about, being in the business of selling things other people would tell you isn't available anymore. I saw all the X-Com titles, as well as all the CIV's and SP's. I quickly went through some of his stuff and didn't see 3R. [/B][/QUOTE]

The site is owned by a female who spent 2 years in the states, earned an MBA, was offered a job in Hong Kong, and took it.

For years, she has had an interest in older games, and making sure the older ones, and those that are no longer published, don't fade away into oblivion. For better or worse these games are a part of our cultural heritage, and there is some nostaglia associated with those first special games. . .

The games that are for sale on her site are ALL linked back to, and are sold by, either the original publishers or game dealers such as CD-Access, etc. She merely provides the listing, but she, herself, does NOT sell any games. . .

Third Reich is found in the "War" section. All games are listed in alphabetical order.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/15/2003 9:23:29 PM)

The world is an interesting place.

I have a friend, totally ordinary bloke, nothing out of the ordinary about him.

He has a conventional porn based web site. Why, because contrary to most embarassed guys assertions they don't, most guys like to look at porn.
He gets incremental sums of cash for anyone that goes to his site from the people that advertise on his site.
He never checks the site much (if at all). Yes I KNOW that is dangerous. I never said his idea for getting cash with zero effort was logical or something I intend to emulate.

Porn sites work based on you going to them. They re direct you to other sites (whether you want to go there or not). Sort of mutual self help arrangement among them you would imagine.

Warez sites exist because the are fronts for porn (like that was a revelation).

My own web page is with Tripod. No porn of course, but when you see my page, you see ads as well. It's fair, I am not paying for my approximately 16 megs of data space I use up.
Some people go to great lengths to purge those banners n things. I can't tell why. They are no more intrusive than the ads in the magazines I read or the inserts I throw in the round file in the first 5 seconds after getting the magazine in the door.

I am unsure just what Underdogs gets out of the experience (of existing). But I do agree, it's greatly unlikely it's to provde me with a copy of a game I can't locate elsewhere.

People DO in fact though do random acts of kindness though just because they want to.
I have a copy of Close Combat 2 most recently (yes the real thing not a downloaded cracked game). I even have the manual. I paid nothing for it, my online friend sent it to me as a gift.

This is not the only real wargame (not downloaded copy) I have recieved from online friends being randomly nice.
I have done pretty much the same in my own way when possible (there are nice people out there believe it or not).

Now on the subject of dangers. Yes I know that one well. I recently installed a free anti virus I was able to download (suggested by a tech to a friend), that found a virus on my sister's system. She had a current copy of Norton installed, but Norton didn't see it. It is not impossible that this anti virus can miss things as well.

Probably explains why the only skill I have cared to master, was the needed skills to format and reload Windows at liesure.
It's also one of the biggest reasons I like XP, as XP is the first Windows version this dumbass (me heeh) can install without help (whining to young friends for help sucks).

My answer to spyware is regularly cleaning the computer. How often you say? I format my system on average once every 6 months.
If that sounds excessive to you, I guess you can use your own methods at your liesure.

Now to be clear, I am NOT advocating peer to peer, nor the notion "abandonware" is "ok".

I own Steel Panthers 2 Modern Battles as well as the scenarios disk thanks to CDAccess.com.
I think it is nice that Underdogs will send you there when a game you are looking for is being sold there.
I have gained most of my wargames through secondary purchases ie compiled sets.

It is sad of course that the wargame trade is not indefintiely vital. It is unfortunate the original designer is likely not seeing much profit from the game 6 months after it was released.
My only response can be C'est La Vie.

There is a reason why after being a wargamer for hmm more than 25 years, I have not gotten the urge to make and sell one.

Regarding merely mentioning that games exist out there as downloads, well I guess it all comes down to tact.
We all know this, it's not like anyone was not aware.
Actually showing how to scam games might annoy some people (makes sense eh).
A web site might get offended by many things. Just drawing attention away from their site might be seen as annoying.

Then there is the well known fact that some sites that sell games, can often be hardly friendly to disenting opinions on the merits of their products (I have not yet, and will not likely be in the future, posting comments about HoI, where it comes from, for obvious reasons).

I for one do not think there is a "free lunch". Everything costs you something somehow in the end.

The ease with which we can be made able to play wargames on computer, is contrasted by the simple fact that computer wargames are all just computer data.
The cost is that the moment you release that game into the public arena, someone can be miserable about it, and give away free copies of it (for whatever end result purpose).

Now on the other hand, my collection of Advanced Squad Leader while not conveniently on my computer (yes I know about VASL obviously), is not easy to replicate.
It's boxes and mapboards, charts, oodles of pages (ok more than oddles hehe) of rules, zillions of counters, magazines like the Annuals, scenario cards, add on modules.

Heck if I could replicate this stuff in the first place I would be working for MMP making them materials to sell.

The cost there for ASL though, is limited ability to get it in the hands of other wargamers.

Pick your poison I say.

You will never see my name attached to a computer wargame as having been involved in it's creation. There is no money in it in my opinion (or not enough perhaps).
My hats off to those that struggle on to produce what is produced though.

I am (I hope) known for my support of copy protection. It might be intrusive, but I can deal with it for the sake of the software maker.
There are arguments for and against copy protection.
Just as there are arguments for and against places like Underdogs.

Final analysis from me though, until people make a point of making Underdogs illegal, and making it illegal (and impractical) to possess peer to peer software, I am not going to cry over the matter.

The blurb "you are not allowed to distribute copies in violation of copywrite" (or variations on that sentiment) has to rank up there with the most moronic statements of our time.
Sort of like how everyone naturally reads the legal disclaimer when installing software "yes I have read the disclaimer and agree" yeah right.



Charles2222 -> (2/15/2003 9:48:36 PM)

pasternakski: I don't post on that mostly uncivil forum. I brought this as a kind warning to you all, no hard feelings whatsoever. You want your credit card abused then that's your business.

Von Rom: Aw, so you trust her. What even makes you sure she's a woman? There's not a single thing you said that proves any of what she claims. BTW, the forum I spoke of, they talked about that site extensively, but they had to refer to it as 'site X', so when Rick posted what he did, he mentioned a prominent abandonware website that his friend downloaded those four files from, 3 of which were laced, and he might've been talking about underdogs, but it's unclear. All I know, is that NONE of those games are worthy of my risking my credit cards on. I wouldn't even risk my credit card on CL if I could legally get it free (that is, if getting it legally free meant coming from somebody who ALSO gives out people's property away without their permission). Yes, I will likely use my credit card to buy CL, but the diference is that I have no reason to suspect that Matrix will abuse the number I give them,whereas foreign-based sites whom I don't know from Adam, giving away stuff for free, which I have ethical qualms with anyway, I don't trust in the least. They admit what they're doing is illegal, and yet I'm going to be dumb enough to trust someone who is thieving? Don't blame me if a year or two from now those credit cards, etc, look pretty abused.

BTW, I wasn't referring to the shameless underdogs when I was referring to not being able to find 3R. I was referring to Rick's site, the same one that I mentioned has LOTS of old wargames, which the link was at the bottom of his post, and I'll repeat here: (I looked exetensively this time, and although a great many wargames of every stripe are there, 3R is not) http://www.rochnet.net/



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/16/2003 12:20:31 AM)

Charles that site link in your last post, do you know where they hail from (ie exactly where the business is located?).

I am wondering, because I would rather pay a few bucks, and get a retail copy instead of someone's idea of a downloadable file version.

I am not saying that every business out there offering items for sale is doing so legitmately, but if I buy an item online, that is offered as the real thing, and shows up at my door as the real thing, then I am of course inclined to believe the business is as legit as I can be expected to asertain.

I am curious about that link because I have found the real thing usually works better installs better and well let's face it, while I am not some noble schmuck really, I still feel better when I have a reciept for something I bought honestly.

I have bought from CDAccess.com and I feel no reason to think they are selling me a lark.

I am wondering if you know if this site in your post lives up to your own expectations.

Oh just for details sake, I don't have a credit card (limit of my pension unfortunately), so I am never going to have to fret over that issue.
When I order online, I do it via proxy (Margaret being a good example). I pay for things when I must, by sending money orders.

It is unlikely I would use my own credit card though if I even had one.
The day I order CL, I will either be doing it through Margaret, or Matrix will get a money order from me.

I agree with your sentiments about the veracity of statements.

I say I am a 41 year old male Canadian ex-serviceman.
In my nickname I call myself Les the Sarge.
Only a complete fool though, would take any of the above statement at face value just because I printed it here.

Although I think my being a Canadian male named Les is not up for question by you guys heheh:)

Lastly, what did you mean by "laced"?



Charles2222 -> (2/16/2003 1:45:47 AM)

Les the Sarge 9-1: Two things. First, I never knew they existed before yesterday. Second, I'm guessing he's in the UK, particularly since he mentioned somebody told them to "shove off" and he does act as though he's not American. As far as anything else goes, your guess is as good as mine, as I hadn't put serious thought into buying any of the items, whatever form they may be taking.

Oh, what did I mean by laced? I used it in a general term. You usually use the term in referring to a drink that has an uknown ingredient added to it, usually to cause some form of harm. So, if someone gave you a free download with some morped spy software in there, then that would be laced.

BTW, you spoke of not using credit cards. Not to get into the other reasons for not using them, all over again, if you have any financial data on that computer I'd also think that at risk. As well, if there's any personal information, if they wish to be more hostile, may compromise your well being, such as you real name, address, bank account access, phone number, etc. I'm poorly read on spy software, but my guess is that they have so much to do when spying on you, they're probably not interested in hacking your computer, and whether there's any spy software that would enable them to do that, or that once the spy software is in, that would give them a gate to getting in some way of hacking I don't know.



Charles2222 -> (2/16/2003 2:02:25 AM)

One last thing. Though I have looked the site over a bit more, I've yet to find the loacation, but he may be Canadian as yourself, for he does charge more for postage outside North America.



Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (2/16/2003 2:11:15 AM)

Personal info on the system hmmm.

Well if someone looked at my computer they would likely not finding anything useful.

Phone number well I am after all publicly listed.

Hmm the fact that I post on a number of wargame forums might become apparent. Would love to see a person come on here though and try fake being me heheh.

Hmm there is my collection of pics of girls (yeah like that will be unusual heheh). Or that half of them are not even real people (I like anime remember).

Actually most people that know me, know I am an excessive extrovert (no reeeally:eek: ).

Best defense against people telling other people embarassing things about oneself, is for everyone that knows you, to be inclined to yawn in reflex to being told you do something that most might normally be uncomfortable with:D



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