Road to Moscow -- basic questions (Full Version)

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jallison86 -> Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/6/2014 8:08:20 PM)

I'm a newbie trying to get a handle on this monster. I've been trying Road to Moscow as the Germans and am getting pretty severely bogged down. I've been pushing my motorized units out pretty aggressively (I think) but still find that by the time I get to the Dnieper the Sovs have formed a line that stops me. It seems like attacking across the river with mechanized troops is a non-starter. For example, in the Mogilev hex I've got the 17th Panzer and 29th Motorized divisions. Both are a bit low on supply, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Across the river is a single Soviet rifle division. I can't do any sort of attack with these two divisions...presumably because they're too low on fuel/supplies.

Without a German bridgehead the Soviets quickly build up a mass of units that's impossible to break through. Easy to defeat individual units but impossible to advance much.

I feel like I'm missing some very basic piece of strategy here. Should motorized units ignore the Soviets and just haul ass for the river in order to form a bridgehead? Can they get there and still be in supply? I've restarted the scenario a few times trying different things but given all there is to do even in a "small" scenario like this it takes a while. Any super-basic tips?

Thanks.

- Jeff



loki100 -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/6/2014 8:44:37 PM)

Its a hard problem, but key is that you can't clear the Dniepr with armour/motorised but once your infantry arrive you'll get across easily.

Best is not to push too far in turns 3-4, let the infantry catch up and your mobile units rest a little. I know (because I have the same temptation) that its hard not to think that you have to use every mobile MP every turn.

The result will be a brutal battle (which Smolensk was) but with practice you should be able to wear down the Soviets and pull off a decent pocket. In the shorter Smolensk scenario thats where it normally ends (around T10) with the Germans in control of Smolensk and a draw/marginal victory depending on relative losses.

The next step I guess requires another break, get the infantry up and use them to break the new Soviet lines, use the Panzers to exploit.

I'd strongly suggest have a look at some of the AARs from the German side, may give you an idea of how hard to push and where, and when to let your units take a break.

Fatigue will kill your combat values, so the old military maxim of 'hurry up and wait' is worth bearing in mind. I find managing the transition of mobile MPs from about T2-T6 one of the hardest tasks with the Germans



jallison86 -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/6/2014 9:02:34 PM)

Thanks loki100, very useful input. The game is feeling a bit overwhelming...which is a good thing in that there is just so much here. But lots to learn.

- Jeff



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/10/2014 3:54:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jallison86

Thanks loki100, very useful input. The game is feeling a bit overwhelming...which is a good thing in that there is just so much here. But lots to learn.

- Jeff

Talking about Road to Moscow... fancy a PBEM against me as Soviet? I am not as skilled or cunning as some hardcore WitE-players, but... I'll give my best to make it interesting. Drop me a line, Jeff.

Klink, Oberst



jallison86 -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/10/2014 6:19:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Talking about Road to Moscow... fancy a PBEM against me as Soviet? I am not as skilled or cunning as some hardcore WitE-players, but... I'll give my best to make it interesting. Drop me a line, Jeff.

Klink, Oberst

I don't think I'm ready for that. There are still many aspects of the game that totally baffle me. For example, here's a screenshot of the situation at the end of the first German turn.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141140/End%20Ger%20Tn%201.JPG[/image]

A few armored and mechanized units up north of Vilnius.
Now here's the situation at the end of the first Soviet turn:

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141140/End%20Sov%20Tn%201.JPG[/image]

So what happened to those units? They simply disappeared.

Given that I can't even keep track of, for example, 1st Panzer Division, I don't think I'm ready for PbEM play just yet. [&:]

- Jeff



jwolf -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/10/2014 6:34:03 PM)

Your units "disappeared" because they were withdrawn.  The Central scenarios (as Road to Moscow) include in the German OOB much of Army Group North along with Army Group Center.  The units from AGN are gradually withdrawn as it is understood they are or are supposed to be operating much farther to the north, in the drive toward Leningrad.

What this means is that when you play Road to Moscow (or any Central scenario) as the Germans, before you make any moves, type "i" and look at the withdrawal schedule.  That will guide you in how to make the best use of the AGN units.  As you will see, you have the use of 4th Panzer Group -- but only for the first turn.  Similarly, 18th army is yours to use freely -- for two turns only.  16th army withdraws more gradually, by corps.



jallison86 -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/10/2014 6:46:36 PM)

See, I told you I have no idea what is going on [:)]

Thanks for the info. What I really need to do is stop messing around and RTFM.

- Jeff



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/11/2014 11:18:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jallison86

See, I told you I have no idea what is going on [:)]

Thanks for the info. What I really need to do is stop messing around and RTFM.

- Jeff

C'mon... Train hard, fight easy :) I'll see it as a tutorial, not a contest.

Klink, Oberst



timmyab -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/11/2014 1:46:57 PM)

One thing to bear in mind is that the easiest way to cross the Dnepr is to put pressure on the land bridge. Use the armor to clear a path to the land bridge as quickly as possible (don't neglect your flanks). The Soviet player will normally commit heavily to defending this area which will leave the Dnepr relatively weak. Elements of 2nd pz group can clear a path and 4th army should be able to force a crossing by turn 5 or 6.



jallison86 -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/11/2014 4:57:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
C'mon... Train hard, fight easy :) I'll see it as a tutorial, not a contest.

Klink, Oberst

OK, if you don't mind looking at it that way I'm in. I'll PM you with details.

- Jeff



loki100 -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/11/2014 8:22:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink


quote:

ORIGINAL: jallison86

See, I told you I have no idea what is going on [:)]

Thanks for the info. What I really need to do is stop messing around and RTFM.

- Jeff

C'mon... Train hard, fight easy :) I'll see it as a tutorial, not a contest.

Klink, Oberst


does that mean this time you won't try and disguise a division of KV2s as small trees?



Gabriel B. -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/12/2014 6:04:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jallison86

I'm a newbie trying to get a handle on this monster. I've been trying Road to Moscow as the Germans and am getting pretty severely bogged down. I've been pushing my motorized units out pretty aggressively (I think) but still find that by the time I get to the Dnieper the Sovs have formed a line that stops me. It seems like attacking across the river with mechanized troops is a non-starter. For example, in the Mogilev hex I've got the 17th Panzer and 29th Motorized divisions. Both are a bit low on supply, but I'm not sure how to fix that. Across the river is a single Soviet rifle division. I can't do any sort of attack with these two divisions...presumably because they're too low on fuel/supplies.

Without a German bridgehead the Soviets quickly build up a mass of units that's impossible to break through. Easy to defeat individual units but impossible to advance much.

I feel like I'm missing some very basic piece of strategy here. Should motorized units ignore the Soviets and just haul ass for the river in order to form a bridgehead? Can they get there and still be in supply? I've restarted the scenario a few times trying different things but given all there is to do even in a "small" scenario like this it takes a while. Any super-basic tips?

Thanks.

- Jeff


The soviet AI, never defends the Rogacev crossing properly in turn 2 , if can push 2 divisions in there fast , while the rest of panzer group 2 secures the suply line
you can pocket the entire defensive line from gomel to the landbridge .



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Road to Moscow -- basic questions (6/13/2014 10:40:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink


quote:

ORIGINAL: jallison86

See, I told you I have no idea what is going on [:)]

Thanks for the info. What I really need to do is stop messing around and RTFM.

- Jeff

C'mon... Train hard, fight easy :) I'll see it as a tutorial, not a contest.

Klink, Oberst


does that mean this time you won't try and disguise a division of KV2s as small trees?

In our Road to Smolensk I kept the Tank units in reserve at the northern bulge of the Dnieper. Historically the Soviets used them for fruitless counter-attacks against Guderian... I am not a SU expert player but learning. :P

Klink, Oberst



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