Pop Options (Full Version)

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Fleshbits -> Pop Options (6/14/2014 8:09:18 PM)

Do you guys ever use anything but assimilate for both and why would you strategically do so?

My last game as the umm...hekkasomthings.. kepy having xenophobia and would change my options. It got me thinking, is enslaving them such a bad thing?

Resettle seems like it could be used stragecally on your max pop worlds to spread that pop out to lower pop worlds and allow for more growth, but I don't think they really move that much, do they?

Just how much of my population can passenger ships move anyway?



Spacecadet -> RE: Pop Options (6/14/2014 8:29:25 PM)

I do occasionally use different settings for both Same Race and Other Races.

I haven't used Enslave, but I think there is a Reputation or Happiness penalty associated with it.

Resettle does work, but it takes time.

For Passenger ships it depends on the number and Tech level of the Passenger Compartment modules.
Passenger capacity ranges from 1200k to 3600k per module, so with a generic ship having 10 modules you're looking at 12M to 36M per ship.


Back to Race Policies.

If I'm playing a race that doesn't get along with another (say Humans and Bugs), then I'll set Same to Accept and other to either Do Not Accept or Resettle.
I'll use this in particular when the planet is bordering the race I don't usually get along with.

If I colonize a planet with another race that I'd like (again I am Human in this example) then I'll set Same to Do Not Accept and other to Do Not Accept.
For this example, say I've managed to colonize a planet with Mortalens, so these Policy settings with lead this planet to be predominately Mortalen - I'll use this planet to build good, cheap Troops.

There are other scenarios, but I think you can see where these can be of use.





pycco -> RE: Pop Options (6/14/2014 8:32:53 PM)

ya i use enslavement policy's with the races that use them such as insectoids. there is no strategic reason to do this though it actual hurts your empire by not giving other races bonuses.

i put the slaves on low quality planets once it has enough slaves i build ships there, and tax them to 100% and put down the rebellions with force.



Tehlongone -> RE: Pop Options (6/14/2014 9:39:01 PM)

The strategic advantages are debatable but I usually use "do not accept" which is better in the long term as you can get higher taxes and less rebellions from your own race.

Enslave is badly balanced I think the added unhappiness from enslavement fully invalidate the economic advantage so you are forced to run lower taxes or face rebellions, not that those are a problem with a decent garrison but then you basically kill them off. It pretty much work like a socially semi-acceptable exterminate policy. I mean it even removes growth for some reason.



Spacecadet -> RE: Pop Options (6/14/2014 9:50:43 PM)

There is also the argument for mixed races on a planet :

- A planet whose population is made up of differing races will grow more than a pure race planet.

For example, a Desert planet with Humans and one of the Desert native races seem to grow to a larger total population (and thus more income) than if that planet was solely populated by Humans.
If you monitor the population of this planet you'll see one population Max out while the other is still growing.

This also seems to happen when you have a third group of races that make up a very small percentage of the total population.

It really makes sense to me if this is actually the case, as you can look at a planet as having multiple regions/terrain types that would be more suitable to certain races.


This isn't verified, but from behavior I've observed I think it may be valid.



Nanaki -> RE: Pop Options (6/14/2014 10:21:41 PM)

Unfortunately theres not really much use for the racial options at present moment simply because they are not focused enough to be useful. For example, for the Mammalian race group (I refuse to call it rodent), I might want to keep Teekans, Ugnari, and Zenox, but exterminate those worthless Atuuk. Unfortunately there is not really any good option that can do that without potentially and accidentially killing those other races in collatoral damage.

Overall though, the general idea is good, you can get rid of unwanted races with lousy bonuses while assimilating and encouraging the growth of races that do contribute to your empire. Just that in practice it does not work too well.



Spacecadet -> RE: Pop Options (6/14/2014 10:24:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanaki

Unfortunately theres not really much use for the racial options at present moment simply because they are not focused enough to be useful. For example, for the Mammalian race group (I refuse to call it rodent), I might want to keep Teekans, Ugnari, and Zenox, but exterminate those worthless Atuuk. Unfortunately there is not really any good option that can do that without potentially and accidentially killing those other races in collatoral damage.

Overall though, the general idea is good, you can get rid of unwanted races with lousy bonuses while assimilating and encouraging the growth of races that do contribute to your empire. Just that in practice it does not work too well.


Yeah, when playing Humans for example, I'd like to be able to get rid of the just the Bugs instead of the Bugs and all others.




pycco -> RE: Pop Options (6/15/2014 12:25:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

The strategic advantages are debatable but I usually use "do not accept" which is better in the long term as you can get higher taxes and less rebellions from your own race.

Enslave is badly balanced I think the added unhappiness from enslavement fully invalidate the economic advantage so you are forced to run lower taxes or face rebellions, not that those are a problem with a decent garrison but then you basically kill them off. It pretty much work like a socially semi-acceptable exterminate policy. I mean it even removes growth for some reason.


yup i believe it gives bonuses to ships construction though AFAIK. i make 50k from a low quality planet this way though and ships seem to build fairly quickly.



Cauldyth -> RE: Pop Options (6/15/2014 1:27:58 AM)

Not only would it be great to be able to specify policy by individual race, it would also be good to have the other policy options made more attractive.

As an example, it could be so that mixed species planets are easier for other empires to target with espionage. After all, it would be easier to infiltrate such a place.



pycco -> RE: Pop Options (6/15/2014 1:52:35 AM)

ya without a doubt i would love this to happen given that no mods are even able to do this its probably not easily done though.

even being able to set accept; reptile, marsupial,insect ,humanoid ,ect . would be great and would allow for much deeper play with bonus applied to those species and negative effects given diplomacy to those you don't allow. would make forming an alliance against all humanoids much better and would allow for development in other areas as well.



unclean -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 1:33:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

The strategic advantages are debatable but I usually use "do not accept" which is better in the long term as you can get higher taxes and less rebellions from your own race.

Enslave is badly balanced I think the added unhappiness from enslavement fully invalidate the economic advantage so you are forced to run lower taxes or face rebellions, not that those are a problem with a decent garrison but then you basically kill them off. It pretty much work like a socially semi-acceptable exterminate policy. I mean it even removes growth for some reason.

Yeah, I like the idea behind it (short term econ in exchange for a pop growth and diplomatic hit) but it just doesn't work.

For example here's some shots of it under ideal circumstances with the full 50% GDP boost:

[image]http://i.imgur.com/yWHxlca.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i.imgur.com/rZkuqaG.jpg[/image]

I'm actually losing money doing it, lol.



FingNewGuy -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 2:18:16 AM)

On the other hand, in a very large game where I had conquered an enormous number of alien worlds my native race was in jeopardy of becoming a minority in their own empire. In that case I found Enslavement a good option and could tolerate the economic hit (which at that scale was relatively minor anyway).



Tehlongone -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 7:24:15 AM)

It's supposed to be for economic gain though, to shift population percentages resettlement makes more sense.

It doesn't even have to be all that profitable, but it often (always?) lead to less money and slowly kills off the slaves rather than keep them.



BlueTemplar -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 9:56:08 AM)

Ok, so Enslaving removes pop growth and lowers tax income by lowering approval (compared to Assimilate).
Notice however that GDP is massively increased, so you DO get a lot more money, via the private sector.

But what about ship construction rate (planet and spaceyard)?



Tehlongone -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 10:29:08 AM)

Right, I suppose enslavement does succeed in boosting the private sector but usually those guys have all the money they need. ;)

I'm almost certain that ship construction rate are completely unchanged regardless of policy.



ParagonExile -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 12:23:49 PM)

Completely unrelated subject, but I love the idea of having many races living under one civilization, like the Federation or Republic, but less ineffectual and more badass. There should be some sort of reward, diplomatic maybe, for having a racially diverse civilization.

In my current/last game with XHumans, I have a population of 200 billion, and only 44 billion of that is my native race, with every other race represented except the Shakturi and Kaskudons. There should be something beneficial in all that.



Unforeseen -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 1:54:46 PM)

My human empires almost always have a very lucrative Atuuk slave trade. Reminds me of Wookies, everyone wants a Wookie slave so why not an Atuuk slave!



Tehlongone -> RE: Pop Options (6/16/2014 6:53:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ParagonExile

Completely unrelated subject, but I love the idea of having many races living under one civilization, like the Federation or Republic, but less ineffectual and more badass. There should be some sort of reward, diplomatic maybe, for having a racially diverse civilization.

In my current/last game with XHumans, I have a population of 200 billion, and only 44 billion of that is my native race, with every other race represented except the Shakturi and Kaskudons. There should be something beneficial in all that.

Well you do get to activate several racial bonuses, but maybe it should give an intelligence bonus from sheer diversity. I imagine it'd be very nice for infiltrating other empires.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

My human empires almost always have a very lucrative Atuuk slave trade. Reminds me of Wookies, everyone wants a Wookie slave so why not an Atuuk slave!

Yeah, the best slaves by far are those with happiness bonuses, they are much more willing to accept the tax rate which makes it easier to profit from the bonus slavery provides. Securan/Shandar/Tarapin/Tairoshan/Atuuk all make for excellent slaves.



unclean -> RE: Pop Options (6/18/2014 6:48:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone
quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

My human empires almost always have a very lucrative Atuuk slave trade. Reminds me of Wookies, everyone wants a Wookie slave so why not an Atuuk slave!

Yeah, the best slaves by far are those with happiness bonuses, they are much more willing to accept the tax rate which makes it easier to profit from the bonus slavery provides. Securan/Shandar/Tarapin/Tairoshan/Atuuk all make for excellent slaves.

I was messing around with this, and yeah, it seems like what really determines how effective enslavement is is your gov + race happiness rating (aka approval modifier). I wasn't that thorough testing it, but under ideal circumstances it seems like slavery breaks even at a total of +10%, is profitable at 20%, and gives a pretty nasty increase in taxes at +50%.

So lizards and their military dictatorships are wussies, it's those sadistic utopian teddy bears you really have to watch out for.

I didn't test out actual happiness (from wonders, leaders etc), but it's not as major a stat as your approval modifier, so I'm not sure if it really changes things up. +Colony income modifier didn't seem to affect enslavement in particular.

Anyways not %100 on this, but I think that's what's going on.



Tcby -> RE: Pop Options (6/18/2014 7:24:26 AM)

^ That is very interesting.



Tehlongone -> RE: Pop Options (6/18/2014 6:12:52 PM)

Wow, hadn't even thought of government happiness. Heh, that means Democracy is among the best governments for profiting from slavery. Corporate Nationalism gets the full benefit but it's so horrible overall that it won't make any difference.



Keston -> RE: Pop Options (6/28/2014 1:06:58 AM)

Inspired by the collaborative Keskudon AAR,I started as them. Nasty revanchist galactic imperialists with a special set of skills.... One of their modifiers is +10% growth for planets with an Exterminate policy in effect. I'm a little queasy about that, so am hoping Enslave is providing a substantial gain.

Assimilate is out of character for the Keskies, but maybe I could rationalize it as maskirovka, like trade treaties and other friendly actions (OK, maybe I'm just a good relations addict).



Shark7 -> RE: Pop Options (6/28/2014 5:42:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: unclean

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

The strategic advantages are debatable but I usually use "do not accept" which is better in the long term as you can get higher taxes and less rebellions from your own race.

Enslave is badly balanced I think the added unhappiness from enslavement fully invalidate the economic advantage so you are forced to run lower taxes or face rebellions, not that those are a problem with a decent garrison but then you basically kill them off. It pretty much work like a socially semi-acceptable exterminate policy. I mean it even removes growth for some reason.

Yeah, I like the idea behind it (short term econ in exchange for a pop growth and diplomatic hit) but it just doesn't work.

For example here's some shots of it under ideal circumstances with the full 50% GDP boost:

[image]http://i.imgur.com/yWHxlca.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i.imgur.com/rZkuqaG.jpg[/image]

I'm actually losing money doing it, lol.



One thing to keep in mind, if you have multiple colonies with enslave options on populations, and penal colonies set up, the enslaved species will get moved to one spot. Hence the population growth. Also, some of the enslaved species may have already been on passenger ships bound to the planets when you set the policy, so imagine their surprise when they arrived. [;)]



Tehlongone -> RE: Pop Options (6/28/2014 9:26:29 PM)

Well, imagine the surprise of a peacefully colonized planet of aliens when it's one day announced that from this day forth they are all slaves.



Shark7 -> RE: Pop Options (6/29/2014 12:05:11 AM)

That is when it pays to have a very large garrison of troops of your own species on the planet. [:D]



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