Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (Full Version)

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tango4 -> Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 8:53:09 AM)

Hi everyone,
I don't own the game at the moment but I am considering buying it.
As it is quite expensive, I try to get some information on what exactly it simulates.
Here comes my question:
If I understand correctly, you are basically playing as a commander of a sort of "task force", basically every unit on your side.
I just wonder how are handled comms.
The example that comes to my mind is that of submarines. I have the feeling that you can micro manage every unit if you wish, which would not be possible in real life. To make my question a bit clearer just imagine a quick scenario with an attack sub and an ASW frigate under your command, hunting an enemy sub.
In real life, once I have ordered the sub to dive below commms depths, I won't be able to communicate with him, at least not frequently.
I have the feeling that in "command" , if my attack sub sees the enemy sub and gets a firing solution, I'll be able to share it with my frigate immediately.
Perhaps I am wrong but I am not sure I understood correclty how this would be treated and if that is realistic.
If someone has the time to just quickly enlighten me, that would be great.
And please don't hesitate to tell me if my post was not really clear !

Best regards everyone.

Charles MOULIN



poaw -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 9:28:41 AM)

You're allowed to actively command units and share information between them even in situations when it would be impossible in real life, like the example you mention and others.



Pergite! -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 9:45:30 AM)

The submarine comms issue has extensively been discussed in an older thread that I am currently are unable to find. In it the developers give their view on the current design choice regarding subs in particular. Try searching for it.



thewood1 -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 11:03:13 AM)

If you feel there is too much communications between units, you can choose to make them friendly, non-hostile, neutral, etc. There are a hundred things you can do in postures to make it so realistic that you'll rage quit every time you fire it up.



Mgellis -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 11:45:31 AM)

One really easy way to handle the submarine issue is to make surface units and the submarines (or each submarine) separate sides. You can control how much information they share, without making them hostile to one another, by setting side postures as either friendly (shares location and treats anyone attacking you as hostile) or neutral (is not hostile but does not share information, etc.). You get some interesting results by setting side A as friendly to side B but setting side B as neutral to side A.

Regardless, the player only controls one side. So, if you have a surface action group, but the submarines are a separate side, you may know where they are, if they are allies, but you have no control over what they do in the scenario.

(This is also a good way to create "rogue" units in both player and computer sides that will do things the rest of the side would not do, like fire on a target before it is clear that the target is actually hostile.)

Anyway, I hope this helps.






tango4 -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 11:49:40 AM)

Thanks a lot for all your (very fast !) answers.
They are most useful.
Pergite!, I'll try to locate this topic and apologies for not having searched well enough.

I'll try to investigate the solutions you all offer using separate sides.

Once again thanks a lot for all your answers, and not calling me stupid right now !

Charles



tango4 -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 11:58:11 AM)

And I just found the topic !!
thanks a lot once again.

Charles



Pergite! -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 12:23:39 PM)

No problem what so ever!

Friendly fog-of-war is like a wet dream in war-gaming for me so I would certainly be all for it (as an painfully realistic option). Throw in a little electronic warfare and effects of order delay and even the most simple scenario could become totally unplayable. [:)]



thewood1 -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 12:47:05 PM)

Command has one the best capabilities for friendly FOW around. But it is optional and dependent on the scenario designer. You also have to have faith in the AI.



Pergite! -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 2:42:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Command has one the best capabilities for friendly FOW around. But it is optional and dependent on the scenario designer. You also have to have faith in the AI.


I would not go that far, since all units need to be pre-programmed (you actually do not command them) and then you still know where they are as allies. To me that is not fog of war at all, its just units not under your direct command.

The only true computer wargame friendly fog of war I have ever witnessed was in POA2 (Point of Attack 2). You gave your orders to your companies and platoons that then headed out to meet the enemy. They reported their position when in contact or on the intervals you specified. Little communication means low probability of intercept from enemy surveillance (communication needs for different tasks where actually calculated and handled in data bits IIRC) If however enemy jamming starts up, then you could lose contact with your units completely and get a very scarce picture of how the battle is unfolding. It was not for the faint of heart, and also sadly quote a bug ridden game at the time.

If the allied (simulated sub) side in command could have their own position hidden and just report their contacts would in my opinion improve the current set-up a lot. As it is now you can from the simulated subs movement and positions also tell where the enemy likely isn't located. An option for hidden position of allied units would prevent this and to my understand increase the realism within the current game mechanics.




thewood1 -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 2:51:24 PM)

Don't make them allies...treat them as neutrals. That gives real FOW. It is only an issue with older scenarios where comms are not as good. If a sub is going to provide enemy position info, it will also provide own location info. It is sop.

I beta-tested POA2 until it got wrecked by the 2.5 upgrades. It's friendly FOW looked good, but didn't function well because there was no AI to control it outside communications.



tango4 -> RE: Noob Question Regarding "Realism" (6/19/2014 3:23:29 PM)

Well, I do agree with what was said before, a good comms simulation would be a great feature, although I do understand it might be very difficult to implement without making things unplayable.
I'll keep reading about this game before making a decision, but it clearly looks very intersting, and the community in those forum really looks educated and friendly (which is always a good point because forums are really a good help source in such complicated sims).

Charles



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