When to Build Space Ports? (Full Version)

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Manningham -> When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 1:40:11 AM)

A question for you experienced folk:

I have been building one starport per system colonized. Is there a good reason not to do this?

* disclaimer - I prefer not to design ships or bases since the AI does not get this advantage and I don't like the micro.

I have been reading up on how people build starports and there are some very interesting suggestions.. I would link but the forum disallowed that and now I have to rewrite this post :/

One interesting suggestion I read was to avoid building starports altogether in many systems since too many ports "confuses the AI". To what extent have you noticed this issue? Does the AI have many colonies without starports? I don't want to 'unfairly' advantage myself over the AI in too many ways..

Also, are defensive bases viable alternatives to spaceports? I am unfamiliar with the components and don't really want to get into that level of detail.. just wondering about the function of defensive bases outside of combat.

Thanks for any thoughts you have on the subject! [:)]



ceyan -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 2:32:58 AM)

For star ports your major benefit, assuming you're not strapped for a fuel dump or building capacity, is the recreation/medical component benefit. If you're rolling in cash then go ahead and build one per system but by default the designs used by the AI are pretty expensive on maintenance and will cost you more than they will earn you until the colony is pretty large. Unfortunately you also don't need the bonuses once the colonies are well established unless you need to recovery from a big morale hit (event, conquered colony, enslavement/penal policies, etc...).

Basically build them as needed for fleets/fuel dumps and building capacity if you're using the AI designs.

As for defensive bases the only difference between any of the station types is the required components and the fact that the AI will build specific types in specific locations (Space ports over planets, designated research type over that type of research bonus). Defensive bases operate exactly like space ports, only without the need to have ship building components added on. By default they're a poor substitute though because I don't believe the AI puts recreational/medical components on and they don't have the storage and docking bays to support a lot of traffic. Defensive bases also don't tend to collect resources like space ports do, but I've honestly never tried having just a defensive base over a planet to receive luxury goods or had a defensive base with construction components to see if they'd store resources for building.



Manningham -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 3:15:23 AM)

Alright well I'll hold off on building so many space ports then. I was thinking about using defensive bases to ward off pirate raids, but maybe it's cheaper to put a small fleet in orbit.. the only problem with that being that I'll have to manually choose a time to refit them since, when I accept the adviser's suggestion to refit ships, they tend to refit and then not go back to what I had assigned them to do in the first place. The AI is very good at raiding my planets in the little window of time when they're undefended, I wonder how they know??

Thanks for your thoughts!




Manningham -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 3:28:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ceyan

..If you're rolling in cash then go ahead and build one per system but by default the designs used by the AI are pretty expensive on maintenance and will cost you more than they will earn you until the colony is pretty large. Unfortunately you also don't need the bonuses once the colonies are well established..

..Basically build them as needed for fleets/fuel dumps and building capacity if you're using the AI designs..



Just wondering when you would consider a colony (automated taxes) ready for the upgrade to a small space port, not considering the fuel dump or building capacity concerns. 1 billion population?



loki100 -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 6:22:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manningham

A question for you experienced folk:

I have been building one starport per system colonized. Is there a good reason not to do this?

* disclaimer - I prefer not to design ships or bases since the AI does not get this advantage and I don't like the micro.

I have been reading up on how people build starports and there are some very interesting suggestions.. I would link but the forum disallowed that and now I have to rewrite this post :/

One interesting suggestion I read was to avoid building starports altogether in many systems since too many ports "confuses the AI". To what extent have you noticed this issue? Does the AI have many colonies without starports? I don't want to 'unfairly' advantage myself over the AI in too many ways..

Also, are defensive bases viable alternatives to spaceports? I am unfamiliar with the components and don't really want to get into that level of detail.. just wondering about the function of defensive bases outside of combat.

Thanks for any thoughts you have on the subject! [:)]


The main problem with multiple starports is the AI tends to shuffle your stocks around between them, so it increases the risks of having local shortages and, I think, tends to increase overall demand to no particular gain.

Realise you are keeping to the object of using the AI designs but I tend to a sort of compromise. Use the base designs and amend a little. For a cluster of linked colonies, I use defensive bases as a proxy, a bit more docking and storage, add entertainment and medical and you have all you really need. That means that sectors of your empire tend to trade into a central point.

Then as others, add more starports as you expand, either to create a refuel, repair hub or to create new trade networks



Bingeling -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 8:14:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manningham

Alright well I'll hold off on building so many space ports then. I was thinking about using defensive bases to ward off pirate raids, but maybe it's cheaper to put a small fleet in orbit.. the only problem with that being that I'll have to manually choose a time to refit them since, when I accept the adviser's suggestion to refit ships, they tend to refit and then not go back to what I had assigned them to do in the first place. The AI is very good at raiding my planets in the little window of time when they're undefended, I wonder how they know??


They should go back to the colony after refit (and repairs) if you set their home base there. Set postured to defensive and colony only if you want them to do as little as possible.

I would not accept those retrofits, anyways, you should know whether the design upgrade is good enough that it is worth retrofitting for.

To have less work with ship design, I would use a star base to provide medical and recreational components. Make it small (you can always boost the image size) and add medical, recreation, commerce alongside some docks and a few shields. It won't survive a proper attack, so you may have to rebuild them, but they won't interfere with defensive bases built for actual defense, and their retrofits.



Efaferal -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 3:46:23 PM)

I build SP on my first 3 colonies to reach 10K. After that I build a SP about 3/4 fuel range apart for logistics. If I am expecting a prolonged battle I will try to get 3 or more SPs built on the border in order to shift supplies and ships. Once I have a sectors secured all the way to the edge/corner of the map I refit SP's down to small or remove them altogether if I am having a cash crunch.



Euler -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 4:00:21 PM)

I thought I needed a small spaceport to prevent raiding/invading of my planet by pirates. Also a place to build/refit ships. I place a small space port at every new colony. Seems like this is not a good strategy based on what you are saying?



Bingeling -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 4:17:58 PM)

It helps a bit in defending the colony, and can repair defensive ships that has been hit by railguns and gravity weapons. Depending on distance, I would rather rotate ships to run "home" for repairs than build a lot of spaceports. I also focus on busting the pirate bases once I have enough ships to take them down, a pirate that lives more than 2-3 sectors away won't bother you.



ceyan -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/23/2014 10:04:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manningham


quote:

ORIGINAL: ceyan

..If you're rolling in cash then go ahead and build one per system but by default the designs used by the AI are pretty expensive on maintenance and will cost you more than they will earn you until the colony is pretty large. Unfortunately you also don't need the bonuses once the colonies are well established..

..Basically build them as needed for fleets/fuel dumps and building capacity if you're using the AI designs..



Just wondering when you would consider a colony (automated taxes) ready for the upgrade to a small space port, not considering the fuel dump or building capacity concerns. 1 billion population?


I've never done the math because I use my own small space port design that is bare bones and very cheap on maintenance, so it's worth throwing up everywhere. Otherwise it would depend on whatever the break even point is and that will vary by race and each game.



Spidey -> RE: When to Build Space Ports? (6/24/2014 12:36:06 AM)

Building space ports everywhere is a waste of resources and it confuses the AI. Having 45 space ports for 45 colonies means 45 resource warehouses, which then have to be continuously fed by freighters all the time. That's a lot of work that really isn't necessary.

Personally I build my ports based on resource clusters. I want each port to just about have at least one source of every strategic resource. If that means I only have one or two ports covering an entire sector then so be it. I can live with that but I don't want to end up with a legion of ports that only have the resources to build one or two ships anyway.

That said, I'm pretty sure I'm personally not utilizing the civilian freighter network 100%, which means I probably could build more space ports and still have enough resources everywhere to get things done. But building a space port over every colony strikes me as bordering on the absurd. It's a significant resource cost, it reduces freighter efficiency, and it has no benefit whatsoever.

If you want rec and med facilities then build a star base with just that. Costs much less in unkeep, provides all the same benefits, and it doesn't result in pointless stockpiling of resources where you don't need them.

If you want pirate defense then build a few troops or build a defense fleet. Build something that is dynamic. Dynamic things can be moved around between defense and offense whereas static defenses cannot do anything beyond defending.

Final thing, I'm speculating that the value of commerce centers might be exaggerated a tiny bit. Getting a trade bonus is nice but I believe it only happens if another faction is buying from you and I'm pretty sure their demand won't change significantly whether you have 15 or 45 commerce centers.



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