RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release)

RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (Full Version)

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Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/28/2014 8:00:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania Looks like one of the fighter/bomber focused races is causing trouble for others [:D] http://steamcommunity.com/app/261470/discussions/0/35222218635829277/ Good catch that he was using your mod!

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/29/2014 1:40:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania Let's talk tactics, preliminary thoughts are as follows. TacticsWeaker and TacticsStronger Apply Point Blank for: (a) Any race with Beam & Wave Weapons because it's fundamental to the weapon type (Gizurean, Mechanoid, Sluken, Wekkarus, Phaerax, Yl'ta) (b) Torpedoes if the race is Aggressive (Boskara, Kiadian, Shakturi, Keskudon) Otherwise All Weapons as that is appropriate for other weapons types. Used for Military Ships and Base/Ports/Stations. InvasionTactics and FleeWhen (a) For Aggressive races, Invade Immediately and Never Flee (b) For Passive races, Invade When Clear and Shields at 20% Used for Military Ships. To simplify the effort required I'm just going to focus on the races that use Point Blank.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/29/2014 3:19:02 PM)
I've got all the Point Blank tactics done now. I've added Tractor Beams to all Spaceport designs. Note plenty of Vanilla Spaceports have no Tractor Beams at all. I've added Tractor Beams to all Capital Ships (for all races using Point Blank). Yet to test what Tractor Beams do on ships with All Weapons tactics.

Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/29/2014 7:03:09 PM)
Hi Ice changes look great! Have you decided what to do about the resupply ships?

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 1:50:42 AM)
With respect to Resupply Ships, not yet Tanaka. Next step is getting Tractor Beams into the Research Orders. I'll post a link to a test version at that point, with these new mechanics I would like to see the observations of others. Then I'll think more about Resupply Ships.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 5:19:40 AM)
As suggested in the Steam forum, to help players that use a mix of manual research and automatic designs, in the Galactopedia I've now stated the design template focus with weapons. This is available in the Excel sheet as well but this makes that information more accessible in-game.

Blackstork -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 6:03:48 AM)
Hey Ice Since AI mod is part of Beyond i though to do some informative thing. 2 things actually. Weapon Info Grap, and Alliance Info Graph. Weapon specs were not changed from your mod in Beyond, just added more races with their spec. Alliances changed drastically because of lore , creating more epic "Gondor-Mordor", Good vs Evil devision. The style should be like my Leadership Graph charts in Beyond mod. They could be much more nicier representation, and eventually added into pedia. So since we are aiming for megamod thingy anyways for weapons graph you could use it (there iwll be just bit more races) (or i iven make smaller version ). For alliances - here is layout i will do in Art form... Not sure if that will be helpul due some real differencies in alliance teams https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MxPi8qKWKnJpyd3BJog9HRsv7w8osy9366LKooxwR0A/edit?usp=sharing

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 6:41:07 AM)
Adding more information in the Galactopedia sounds like a great idea. I won't add those graphs here but look forward to seeing it as part of Beyond.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 12:10:54 PM)
Oh man this is meant to be my time off work ... Just tracked down an undocumented feature of the new freighter shrinking introduced in 1.9.5.8. The observation was that at the start of the game the modified (larger) freighters in the Mod were available to most races. However, this was not the case for the Ackdarian, Gizurean, Kiadian, Wekkarus and Jintus. The freighter designs were exactly the same. Why just these races? What do they have in common? They all have a Speed/Agility Energy Research Focus. But so do the Sluken, Enton and Riktoh ... yet they worked fine?! The problem was the field "ResearchDesignOverallFocus". If this is set to 1 (Speed/Agility) then the shrinkage algorithm changes. In order to reach the size limit needed, the number of thrusters in particular needs to be reduced by the game, which this setting prevented. When I changed it to 0 (Balanced) the freighters for the remaining races all shrunk to align with the others. I don't think changing this field matters otherwise, but I don't really know, as there is no detail in the Modding guide about exactly what it does (as is the case for the majority of fields). Since the Research Orders and Design Templates are customised anyway, hopefully not, but please report any problems with 1.02 once it's released.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 12:47:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Tanaka Here's your dang defeat screen! Darn bugs attacking my home planet! Ive lost my main space port! Now if you could get the AI to invade planets more we would really be screwed![sm=00000054.gif][sm=00000106.gif][sm=sterb020.gif] Cool dude! In a test game at the moment, I'm watching an AI that started larger than the other empires. They have 4 fleets. Individually they don't have the forces to invade the homeworld of an enemy nearby (they wiped everything else out) but if 2-3 of those fleets combined, the homeworld would have been conquered long ago. One for Erik and Elliot I would suggest. I've updated the Developer Support Wishlist in the OP accordingly.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 2:15:09 PM)
A Keskudon versus Gizurean Fleet Battle during a test game. Point Blank Torpedoes versus Point Blank Beams. Tractors pulling in on Capital Ships. There is only one word for this ... LETHAL!!! [image]local://upfiles/44900/90AF562135EA4AA1B75C3C7507A0B532.jpg[/image]

AKicebear -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 3:51:46 PM)
Playing as Boskara and appear to lack an automated Troop Transport design (build-able or otherwise) - is this intentional?

johanwanderer -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/30/2014 6:03:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AKicebear Playing as Boskara and appear to lack an automated Troop Transport design (build-able or otherwise) - is this intentional? It happens from time to time, in the vanilla game as well, when some condition wasn't met for the design to be created. Just create a new design and set it to automatic. Then the game will figure it out for you.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 2:00:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania Oh man this is meant to be my time off work ... Just tracked down an undocumented feature of the new freighter shrinking introduced in 1.9.5.8. The observation was that at the start of the game the modified (larger) freighters in the Mod were available to most races. However, this was not the case for the Ackdarian, Gizurean, Kiadian, Wekkarus and Jintus. The freighter designs were exactly the same. Why just these races? What do they have in common? They all have a Speed/Agility Energy Research Focus. But so do the Sluken, Enton and Riktoh ... yet they worked fine?! The problem was the field "ResearchDesignOverallFocus". If this is set to 1 (Speed/Agility) then the shrinkage algorithm changes. In order to reach the size limit needed, the number of thrusters in particular needs to be reduced by the game, which this setting prevented. When I changed it to 0 (Balanced) the freighters for the remaining races all shrunk to align with the others. I don't think changing this field matters otherwise, but I don't really know, as there is no detail in the Modding guide about exactly what it does (as is the case for the majority of fields). Since the Research Orders and Design Templates are customised anyway, hopefully not, but please report any problems with 1.02 once it's released. While civilian ship shrinkage looks good for pre-warp it remains problematic with 1.9.5.8 with a normal start. The game will reduce the number of thrusters to an extent but then give up. It doesn't reduce the number of cargo bays, for example. As you all know I don't want to kneecap the civilian economy but going back to the slow / limited extraction Vanilla designs. What I'm doing is increasing construction sizes by one class at each technology level. This was already done for Orbital assembly (Size 160 limit increased to Size 230) for similar reasons. Changing Space Construction from a Size 230 limit to a Size 300 limit will resolve the problem. But it will also mean larger ships are available a bit earlier generally. With Resupply Ships, I like the suggestions made previously to make them available earlier, helping the AI with early game resource shortages. If they are made available at Enhanced Construction the design size limit would be 1200, still quite beefy. Accelerated Construction is still an appealing technology as it grants access to an important Wonder relatively early in the Technology Tree.

AKicebear -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 2:09:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: johanwanderer It happens from time to time, in the vanilla game as well, when some condition wasn't met for the design to be created. Just create a new design and set it to automatic. Then the game will figure it out for you. Thanks, this worked.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 2:56:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania � Even with the correct Construction Size technology and plenty of available cashflow there is a delay before the AI will build Capital Ships. Please advise what the trigger is or remove the delay if hardcoded. This wasn't mentioned as fixed in the 1.9.5.8 Beta patch notes but is anyone else seeing an improvement here? Looks like it's been fixed. Definitely fixed. Through a few test games now and Capital Ships were built without delay. However, there must be a similar undocumented trigger for Resupply Ships, because after making them available earlier in the Technology Tree, and the designs clearly being shown as Buildable, many years later not a single Resupply Ship has been built by the AI ...

Cauldyth -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 5:12:15 AM)
I wonder if the AI does some sort of more sophisticated check to see if there are potential opponents at a distance which would require the use of Resupply Ships.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 8:17:07 AM)
Hey All: EXTENDED AI IMPROVEMENT MOD 1.02 BETA With the new battle tactics I would appreciate comments, I'll give this a week and then release. Changelog: 1.02 Beta 1. Escort Ship Designs for Keskudon and Zenox changed to Size 230 to align with other races and to ensure buildable early game. 2. Keskudon Ship Designs include Bombardment Weapons to align with their Research Order. 3. Carriers for races that do not use Fighters/Bombers now use the updated designs i.e. that are used by Figher/Bomber races. While they are not use by the AI those designs maybe used by human players. 4. Resupply Ships now have 20 Docking Bays. 5. Ship tactics added for details refer to the "Extended AI Improvement Mod.xls" Summary Sheet. Carriers are always "All Weapons", however. 6. Tractor Beams added to all Spaceport designs. 7. Tractor Beams added to Capital Ships for all races using Point Blank Tactics i.e. to pull them in. 8. Tractor Beam research added for all races (except for Gravitic Weapons focused races that researched Tractor Beams already). 9. Galactopedia updated to include the Weapons focus and Energy Research preferences for each race. 10. Increased Troop Garrison Levels, where possible. 11. To resolve problems with Freighter shinkage, changed ResearchDesignOverallFocus to 0 (Balanced) for the Ackdarian, Gizurean, Kiadian, Wekkarus and Jintus. This should have no other effect as the Research Orders and Design Templates are customised anyway, but please report any problems. 12. Increased construction sizes by one class at each technology level. This resolves problems with Civilian Ship shrinkage and means larger ships are available for the AI earlier. 13. Resupply Ships now available at Enhanced Construction with designs optimised for Size 1200, which helps the AI with early game resource shortages. Cheers, Icemania

Blackstork -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 10:11:43 AM)
Hey Mate, GJ, ![&o] I have few questions about compatibility/integration process: Do you have update package without unchanged base (only files that you changed without files which was not changed, which possible to copy as update? ) Does race.txt files have another updates except research weapon queue for non-gravitic races? Are there any changes to research.txt except change of Resuply ship tech? Thanks and cheers! I perhaps will wait for final release for integration, tho i want to prepare myself and see and mark all the changes and things.

sayke -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 10:26:46 AM)
Icemania, this is bloody fantastic! Thank you =) One question, though: Because my computer chokes on the massive space battles and fighter swarms in this mod, I would like to reduce the size of all fleets generally. Is increasing military maintenance cost for all governments, or all races, the best way to do this in your view? Thanks again!

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 10:40:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blackstork Do you have update package without unchanged base (only files that you changed without files which was not changed, which possible to copy as update? ) Parts of the design templates, help, race and policy files have been changed. Items 1-7 in the changelog changed the design templates. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the folder? Item 8 in the changelog changed the race files. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the files? Item 9 in the changelog is the updated help files. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the files? Item 10-11 in the changelog changed some policy files. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the files? Item 12-13 in the changelog changed the research file. The project numbers changed are 106-112 and 280 i.e. Construction technologies beyond Space Construction. quote: ORIGINAL: Blackstork Does race.txt files have another updates except research weapon queue for non-gravitic races? No other changes except to add Gravitic Weapons -> Tractor Beam research. quote: ORIGINAL: Blackstork Are there any changes to research.txt except change of Resuply ship tech? Yes refer Item 12 as well (resupply ship is Item 13).

Hikikomori -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 10:51:16 AM)
[&o][&o][&o] Can't wait to try supply ships and invading with sneaky cheesy tactics. I hope i get myself slaughtered. [:)]

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 10:56:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sayke One question, though: Because my computer chokes on the massive space battles and fighter swarms in this mod, I would like to reduce the size of all fleets generally. Is increasing military maintenance cost for all governments, or all races, the best way to do this in your view? Thanks again! Oh man I love those Fighter Swarms! You should see Carriers now they stretch in size, when you get to late game ... You could increase maintenance costs. That might mean less fleets but it sounds like you might have trouble on a specific fleet anyway. Another option comes to mind. You could reduce the number of fighters and bombers per Fighter Bay in components.txt and increase the damage of each fighter and bomber in fighters.txt by the same proportion. A factor of 3 perhaps. In components.txt, look for items 26, 27 and 130 (Extended). See the 60's? Change them to 20. fighters.txt should be pretty self-explanatory. Then check the Tech Tree in a new game.

Icemania -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 11:01:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hikikomori Can't wait to try supply ships and invading with sneaky cheesy tactics. I need help with observations in-game. Capital Ship Tractor Beams work great but please have a close look at Spaceports. (1) There are more Tractor Beams on Spaceports than Vanilla but are there enough? (2) Are Tractor Beams powerful enough or do I need to buff them? (3) Do you find the Spaceports use their Tractor Beams on multiple targets or do they focus on one? If (1) or (2) this is easy to change for 1.02 release. If (3) we will need more help from Erik and Elliot.

Blackstork -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 11:18:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Blackstork Do you have update package without unchanged base (only files that you changed without files which was not changed, which possible to copy as update? ) Parts of the design templates, help, race and policy files have been changed. Items 1-7 in the changelog changed the design templates. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the folder? Item 8 in the changelog changed the race files. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the files? Item 9 in the changelog is the updated help files. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the files? Item 10-11 in the changelog changed some policy files. Hopefully you can just copy and paste the files? Item 12-13 in the changelog changed the research file. The project numbers changed are 106-112 and 280 i.e. Construction technologies beyond Space Construction. quote: ORIGINAL: Blackstork Does race.txt files have another updates except research weapon queue for non-gravitic races? No other changes except to add Gravitic Weapons -> Tractor Beam research. quote: ORIGINAL: Blackstork Are there any changes to research.txt except change of Resuply ship tech? Yes refer Item 12 as well (resupply ship is Item 13). Big thanks, very informative. cant wait for final one. Cheers. For policy and designs i can copy-paste for all 40 extended races, 8 races of Beyond will do by myself basing on new files set.

Hikikomori -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 11:24:00 AM)
You also removed the token weapon on the carriers. [sm=00000947.gif]

Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 7:11:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania � Even with the correct Construction Size technology and plenty of available cashflow there is a delay before the AI will build Capital Ships. Please advise what the trigger is or remove the delay if hardcoded. This wasn't mentioned as fixed in the 1.9.5.8 Beta patch notes but is anyone else seeing an improvement here? Looks like it's been fixed. Definitely fixed. Through a few test games now and Capital Ships were built without delay. However, there must be a similar undocumented trigger for Resupply Ships, because after making them available earlier in the Technology Tree, and the designs clearly being shown as Buildable, many years later not a single Resupply Ship has been built by the AI ... Hey Ice could you request the devs fix this like they fixed the capitals not being built?

Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 7:11:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Tanaka Here's your dang defeat screen! Darn bugs attacking my home planet! Ive lost my main space port! Now if you could get the AI to invade planets more we would really be screwed![sm=00000054.gif][sm=00000106.gif][sm=sterb020.gif] Cool dude! In a test game at the moment, I'm watching an AI that started larger than the other empires. They have 4 fleets. Individually they don't have the forces to invade the homeworld of an enemy nearby (they wiped everything else out) but if 2-3 of those fleets combined, the homeworld would have been conquered long ago. One for Erik and Elliot I would suggest. I've updated the Developer Support Wishlist in the OP accordingly. Thanks! The AI really needs a lot of improvement in planetary invasion coordination!

Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 7:21:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania Oh man this is meant to be my time off work ... Just tracked down an undocumented feature of the new freighter shrinking introduced in 1.9.5.8. The observation was that at the start of the game the modified (larger) freighters in the Mod were available to most races. However, this was not the case for the Ackdarian, Gizurean, Kiadian, Wekkarus and Jintus. The freighter designs were exactly the same. Why just these races? What do they have in common? They all have a Speed/Agility Energy Research Focus. But so do the Sluken, Enton and Riktoh ... yet they worked fine?! The problem was the field "ResearchDesignOverallFocus". If this is set to 1 (Speed/Agility) then the shrinkage algorithm changes. In order to reach the size limit needed, the number of thrusters in particular needs to be reduced by the game, which this setting prevented. When I changed it to 0 (Balanced) the freighters for the remaining races all shrunk to align with the others. I don't think changing this field matters otherwise, but I don't really know, as there is no detail in the Modding guide about exactly what it does (as is the case for the majority of fields). Since the Research Orders and Design Templates are customised anyway, hopefully not, but please report any problems with 1.02 once it's released. While civilian ship shrinkage looks good for pre-warp it remains problematic with 1.9.5.8 with a normal start. The game will reduce the number of thrusters to an extent but then give up. It doesn't reduce the number of cargo bays, for example. As you all know I don't want to kneecap the civilian economy but going back to the slow / limited extraction Vanilla designs. What I'm doing is increasing construction sizes by one class at each technology level. This was already done for Orbital assembly (Size 160 limit increased to Size 230) for similar reasons. Changing Space Construction from a Size 230 limit to a Size 300 limit will resolve the problem. But it will also mean larger ships are available a bit earlier generally. With Resupply Ships, I like the suggestions made previously to make them available earlier, helping the AI with early game resource shortages. If they are made available at Enhanced Construction the design size limit would be 1200, still quite beefy. Accelerated Construction is still an appealing technology as it grants access to an important Wonder relatively early in the Technology Tree. A bit confused about the ship size changes you say you increased size 230 to 300 but I looked and see that escorts are still 230?

Tanaka -> RE: AI Improvement Mod (1.01 Release) (8/31/2014 7:27:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icemania Hey All: EXTENDED AI IMPROVEMENT MOD 1.02 BETA With the new battle tactics I would appreciate comments, I'll give this a week and then release. Changelog: 1.02 Beta 1. Escort Ship Designs for Keskudon and Zenox changed to Size 230 to align with other races and to ensure buildable early game. 2. Keskudon Ship Designs include Bombardment Weapons to align with their Research Order. 3. Carriers for races that do not use Fighters/Bombers now use the updated designs i.e. that are used by Figher/Bomber races. While they are not use by the AI those designs maybe used by human players. 4. Resupply Ships now have 20 Docking Bays. 5. Ship tactics added for details refer to the "Extended AI Improvement Mod.xls" Summary Sheet. Carriers are always "All Weapons", however. 6. Tractor Beams added to all Spaceport designs. 7. Tractor Beams added to Capital Ships for all races using Point Blank Tactics i.e. to pull them in. 8. Tractor Beam research added for all races (except for Gravitic Weapons focused races that researched Tractor Beams already). 9. Galactopedia updated to include the Weapons focus and Energy Research preferences for each race. 10. Increased Troop Garrison Levels, where possible. 11. To resolve problems with Freighter shinkage, changed ResearchDesignOverallFocus to 0 (Balanced) for the Ackdarian, Gizurean, Kiadian, Wekkarus and Jintus. This should have no other effect as the Research Orders and Design Templates are customised anyway, but please report any problems. 12. Increased construction sizes by one class at each technology level. This resolves problems with Civilian Ship shrinkage and means larger ships are available for the AI earlier. 13. Resupply Ships now available at Enhanced Construction with designs optimised for Size 1200, which helps the AI with early game resource shortages. Cheers, Icemania Awesome changes! [&o] Love that tractor beams are capital and base only and not wasted on small ships. Very epic and star wars like! The garrison improvement will really help the AI against invasions and pirates! The resupply ship is very useful now helping the AI as well!

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