Q: on call + spotted marker (Full Version)

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pekische -> Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 12:16:50 PM)

Two questions:

1/What is the main reason for on-call order for non-artillery units? Is it shorter time for next action beside other orders? For example rest order adds improving morale, readiness etc. So why not use rest order instead of on call when I want to leave units like a reserves? Or is there any other benefit of on call?

2/ Spotted markers (points) on my counters are very useful. They make the battle for me easier. But is it correct? How I can know that units are spotted? Especially in situation when I canīt see any enemy units but I know that somebody from somewhere can see me. I donīt think it is real... what is your opinion?

Thx for answers!



Mad Russian -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 4:07:11 PM)

If you have ever been hunting you would know that being seen while not being able to see them is absolutely a reality.

Why do you think units seek cover? So they can be less visible. They want to see you and not have you see them.

It's why artillery observers are put in church towers, infantry get in buildings, etc.

Good Hunting.

MR



IronMikeGolf -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 4:50:45 PM)

In the game, you can also get shot at by someone in cover and not spot the shooter. You can know a unit is "over there" from many signatures and indicators, but not actually see the unit.



CapnDarwin -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 4:59:58 PM)

Let me hit #2 first. It is a 50-50 cheat of sorts right now. In some cases you are getting more information than you should that the enemy sees the unit. In some cases you will know if your unit gets lased and you have a laser warning receiver or you take fire. For helos, getting pinged by search radar will pop the dot. In 2.1 I want to improve this mechanic to only work when counter detection is possible.

I need to look deeper into #1. On Call is really only useful for arty systems to denote a unit available for fire missions. Look for a revamping here in 2.1 as well.



IronMikeGolf -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 6:10:49 PM)

Does being spotted have an effect on unit behavior?



CapnDarwin -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 6:29:55 PM)

No. Being shot at does. Your unit spotting an enemy does. The dot serves as an indicator for the player.



IronMikeGolf -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 6:42:17 PM)

OK. I'd go with being shot at, lased, illuminated (either radar or illum arty/mortar) would make me (in a unit on the ground) think I was spotted. Receiving adjusted indirect fires would, too.

Another thing is seeing the enemy being oriented towards me (either turrets or movement).



pekische -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 7:45:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Let me hit #2 first. It is a 50-50 cheat of sorts right now. In some cases you are getting more information than you should that the enemy sees the unit. In some cases you will know if your unit gets lased and you have a laser warning receiver or you take fire. For helos, getting pinged by search radar will pop the dot. In 2.1 I want to improve this mechanic to only work when counter detection is possible.

I need to look deeper into #1. On Call is really only useful for arty systems to denote a unit available for fire missions. Look for a revamping here in 2.1 as well.



I agree that presence status with spotted marker is a little cheat. The laser warning receiver is really reason for spotted marker, but if an unit have no similar device the player shouldn't know that his forces were spotted by the enemy. If you know it and will try to improve mechanics than it should be great! ;) I think the best way is to create new option of difficulty at the start of the match where a player could choose between more reality or more hints...

Thx for the answer about on-call... I am looking for remake in 2.1.



pekische -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 7:50:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

No. Being shot at does. Your unit spotting an enemy does. The dot serves as an indicator for the player.



Please what options has my unit controlled by AI when enemy shoots against it? When my unit didn't know about this enemy before contact....



Werewolf13 -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 9:11:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

If you have ever been hunting you would know that being seen while not being able to see them is absolutely a reality.

Why do you think units seek cover? So they can be less visible. They want to see you and not have you see them.

It's why artillery observers are put in church towers, infantry get in buildings, etc.

Good Hunting.

MR


Uhhhhh What?

I've been hunting. The deer doesn't know he's spotted until he hears you, smells you, see you or for the fraction of a second after my bullet impacts his heart. And that's the point the OP is making I believe.

Sure the enemy may have units that can see the player's units. But how does the player know that a unit he knows nothing about has spotted him?

Then again Maybe I misunderstood the OP - if so what am I missing? Inquiring minds want to know. (been a while since I've played RS - waiting for 2.04).



pekische -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (6/30/2014 9:29:48 PM)

I absolutely agree with you Werewolf. I think there is no reason for haunted one to know hunter if hunter is hidden well.



Mad Russian -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (7/1/2014 2:17:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

If you have ever been hunting you would know that being seen while not being able to see them is absolutely a reality.

Why do you think units seek cover? So they can be less visible. They want to see you and not have you see them.

It's why artillery observers are put in church towers, infantry get in buildings, etc.

Good Hunting.

MR


Uhhhhh What?

I've been hunting. The deer doesn't know he's spotted until he hears you, smells you, see you or for the fraction of a second after my bullet impacts his heart. And that's the point the OP is making I believe.


Yes, it's my point as well. Line of Sight is not always a two way street. There are many instances where one side can see the other without their presence known.


quote:


Sure the enemy may have units that can see the player's units. But how does the player know that a unit he knows nothing about has spotted him?


How would you know you were spotted in real life by an enemy you couldn't see? You wouldn't. The game goes with real life situations as much as possible.


quote:


Then again Maybe I misunderstood the OP - if so what am I missing? Inquiring minds want to know. (been a while since I've played RS - waiting for 2.04).


Your wait is close to be being done. There was such a big change made to the order matrix that all the scenarios I had done for the campaign had to be rebalanced. So, at the moment you are mostly waiting on me to get them redone. Should hopefully be done by this weekend.

Good Hunting.

MR



wodin -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (7/1/2014 11:56:23 AM)

If a Heli is pinged shouldn't that effete the unit behavior..i.e going map of the earth..or trying to use the terrain to fix the detection somehow?



DoubleDeuce -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (7/1/2014 2:13:32 PM)

I think the OP was just concerned about the "heads up" he got from seeing the spotted markers. I could see it being considered gamey but there are so many variables that are could be involved and while its something that could be tweaked later on, its not something I would lose sleep over.



Werewolf13 -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (7/1/2014 3:03:07 PM)

[quote=Mad Russian]How would you know you were spotted in real life by an enemy you couldn't see? You wouldn't. The game goes with real life situations as much as possible.[/quote]

Exactly. So why put spotted markers on player units giving them a heads up that some enemy unit can see them. Why not limit spotted markers to units that have had the spotting unit having done something to let the spotted unit know that someone can see it. The spotting unit can of course still remain hidden.



WABAC -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (7/3/2014 11:52:37 AM)

Spotted markers?

Really?

No. Don't tell me what to do. Ignorance is bliss. [:D]



IronMikeGolf -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (7/3/2014 2:42:12 PM)

I'll make ya look, WABAC.

Bottom right corner of the counter. Small white dot when the unit is spotted.



WABAC -> RE: Q: on call + spotted marker (7/4/2014 8:53:38 PM)

Nope. Don't see a thing.

Not a thing.

Where's that whistling past the grave yard emoticon?

This guy [:o] looks like he is singing.




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