Espionage and Tech Stealing

Espionage and Tech Stealing (Full Version)

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Euler -> Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/7/2014 6:45:51 PM)
Looking at espionage, it seems there is a problem with the reported success % of a mission and I think there could be some play balancing and wish list suggestions here. The current problem is that it is reported that the % chance of mission success does not seem to be right-success rates of 90+% are reported that get caught more than 10%. This may be due to counterespionage but it seems there should be some way to indicate that. Is this a known bug that needs fixing or is it working as intended? With regard to espionage play balance I got the chance to play as Ugnari with Tex Ixito, who starts with 70% espionage. He was able to easily steal techs from other empires and got above 100% espionage over time, and I could steal from pretty much anyone with little chance of being caught. Maybe that's an extreme case but it seemed a little too easy, it could be a fault with the algorithm or maybe we should not have such powerful intelligence agents. On to wish list suggestions, I think certain governments should have modifiers for espionage/stealing tech. For example it should be easier to steal tech from an open government (democracy) than a closed one (darkness). That could make the government more interesting than just an economic/military one. Mixing races and governments could give you all different types of espionage advantages. What do y'all think?

Aeson -> RE: Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/7/2014 8:31:22 PM)
As far as seeing whether or not the success chances are being correctly displayed, you'd really need to do a lot of tests and obtain a statistically significant sample size before you could say one way or another if it's not producing correct results. People have a tendency to remember the failures more than the successes which makes anecdotal evidence of "it doesn't feel like it's giving me the right success rate" somewhat questionable, and you may just have had a string of bad luck with the random number generator. There are a couple rather strong espionage agents available from the start for a couple of species, and yes, they could probably use having their effectiveness scaled back. The governmental espionage modifiers I'm a bit ambivalent on; democracies are not necessarily all that open or blind to the treasonable activities of their citizens, and corrupt closed regimes are likely to be more easily infiltrated than law-abiding open regimes.

Euler -> RE: Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/7/2014 8:48:41 PM)
Understood on the random number generator and I don't know that it isn't working as intended, although others seem to think so. I wonder if counterespionage is taken into account when reporting the % success rate? Because if not, that could explain a lower observed success rate than what is predicted. Yes I agree it may not hold up to say that one government is better at preventing espionage than another in real life. And my examples (penalizing democracies for example) may not even be the best choice from a game play perspective. But having governmental intelligence modifiers would create more considerations for selecting governments in the same way that we select governments for scientific, economic, or war-weariness advantages. Just an idea to integrate intelligence further into the game but maybe it's not worth it to make changes at this point.

spiralaxis -> RE: Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/7/2014 9:56:25 PM)
Espionage was made a lot harder in 1.9.5.5. Furthermore, the effects of your target's counter-espionage is not taken into consideration for the percentages.

Keston -> RE: Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/8/2014 12:13:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spiralaxis the effects of your target's counter-espionage is not taken into consideration for the percentages. Uh, oh! How much of a hidden effect percentage are we talking about?

spiralaxis -> RE: Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/8/2014 1:21:48 AM)
No idea. We'll need Erick or someone to provide some insight into how it works. I've already suggested that it should be a new low-risk mission to determine the extent of counterespionage in place.

Keston -> RE: Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/8/2014 4:39:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spiralaxis No idea. We'll need Erick or someone to provide some insight into how it works. I've already suggested that it should be a new low-risk mission to determine the extent of counterespionage in place. A sensible and realistic option. I suppose a deep cover agent would do this as a side effect.

ehsumrell1 -> RE: Espionage and Tech Stealing (7/8/2014 7:04:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spiralaxis No idea. We'll need Erick or someone to provide some insight into how it works. I've already suggested that it should be a new low-risk mission to determine the extent of counterespionage in place. This odd behavior has been noted by the test team and we are in agreement there is an issue here. We are testing the Espionage/Agent role part of the game and when Elliot returns from his vacation, I'm sure it will be addressed in his next patch. [:)]

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